Active shooter situation at Florida high school, at least 20 injured so far

[PhaelixWW]

I'm not saying that I am ready to go turn in all my guns to be destroyed, but this is exactly what has become a slippery slope for me. The Constitution was put together by people who lived in a time where it was cool to cast black people to slavery and burn people with pagan beliefs at the stake. It was a different world back then.

And the Constitution has been amended to correct for those injustices. For the people who feel that the 2nd Amendment is outdated, they should likewise attempt to amend it further.

But in the absence of such an amendment, the 2nd Amendment is still a part of the Constitution.

[TZucchini]

But in the absence of such an amendment, the 2nd Amendment is still a part of the Constitution.

Which isn't a convincing justification of our current gun laws - only an explanation as to why they exist.

[ManiaCCC]

Well said. But it is easier to just blame the tool in cases like this. Sounds better and shifts the blame to the other political party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

Guys, just don't play idiots because people may believe it.

[IIamaKing]

what i want to get to the bottom of is, what changed... when my folks grew up guns were easier to get than now, students went to school with rifles hanging in their trucks for hunting b4 or after school.. what part of society shifted to this level of violence and why, and can that be changed. Guns are the tool of choice now, but without a true answer to why / what changed another tool will be used, maybe with less death or more if it was home made bombs/grenades/IED's which are easily made with every day items.

This is the question that needs to be asked more. MY Grandpa walked to school with a .22 that I now own. He would shoot squirrels to and from school for food. He put his gun in the SCHOOL GUN RACK!! When a kid was getting bullied, he didnt run for the unlocked, and out in the open guns, he put up his dukes.

[Machismo]

Well said. But it is easier to just blame the tool in cases like this. Sounds better and shifts the blame to the other political party.

When did this turn into the gun-control thread? Aren't you the guy who always says it's "that way --------------->?"

[PosPosPos]

Which isn't a convincing justification of our current gun laws - only an explanation as to why they exist.

Incidentally, I don't believe the 2nd Amendment actually restricts gun ownership to the underaged right?

[Ghostpanther]

Which isn't a convincing justification of our current gun laws - only an explanation as to why they exist.

But it can be good justification. Such as the Constitutional right to freedom of speech, is justifiable enough. Same for any other rights we have in the Constitution. Of course I am not saying all of our rights are without some restrictions. But those are reasonable ones we have for freedom of speech for example. You can not justify causing a stampede in a crowded building, by yelling out FIRE! when there is none. Other than some reasonable restrictions, one can easily justify exercising them.

[xRATJARx]

3. In Ohio, if I have a license for a conceal carry, I can carry it loaded in my vehicle. I prefer it stay that way for quick access should I need it for self defense.

Wait, you drive around the streets with a loaded weapon in your car?? You sound like a fucking lunatic.

[PosPosPos]

But it can be good justification. Such as the Constitutional right to freedom of speech, is justifiable enough. Same for any other rights we have in the Constitution. Of course I am not saying all of our rights are without some restrictions. But those are reasonable ones we have for freedom of speech for example. You can not justify causing a stampede in a crowded building, by yelling out FIRE! when there is none. Other than some reasonable restrictions, one can easily justify exercising them.

Yeap, mass shootings is a great justification for the 2nd Amendment.

Oh wait.

[Moshots]

nice to see the FBI is too busy using all their resources investigating trump to investigate the fact the kid was reported to the FBI multiple times for violent threats and was on their radar but were never fully investigated until after he shot up a school.

[Ghostpanther]

nice to see the FBI is too busy using all their resources investigating trump to investigate the fact the kid was reported to the FBI multiple times for violent threats and was on their radar but were never fully investigated until after he shot up a school.

Really good point. And I personally think Congress should approve a fund for stronger school security. We did it for the Airports after 9/11.

[PosPosPos]

Wait, you drive around the streets with a loaded weapon in your car?? You sound like a fucking lunatic.

Which is why I always wonder:

Who is paranoid? The people who say there isn't enough firearm regulation in the wake of so many mass shootings, or the gun nuts who can't feel safe to walk around in public without carrying their precious firearms.

Note the irony: the same gun nuts who accuse people in favor of common sense firearm regulation of being paranoid that guns cause more avoidable deaths and injuries.

[Pickynerd]

How many mass killing have happened in Japan in the last 10 years. The answer is 2. Guess what they do not have guns readily available to the public. One was with a knife where he broke into a hospital and killed patients that were sleeping and the other the guy drove a truck into a crowd. And that is with significantly higher population density than the US. SO tell me again that guns do not enable a killer.

Not all guns are AR-15's and that gun has been used in most mass shootings.

Comparing the US to Japan is silly, other than to support your argument on guns, because every crime in Japan is significantly lower than it is in the US.

[Blur4stuff]

You don't have to just compare to Japan. There are several dozen other countries with comparable standards of living to the USA that have stricter gun control laws and significantly fewer firearm related homicides. They also have fewer homicides overall so the ridiculous claim of, "they'll just find another way to murder" is complete bullshit.

[johnhoftb]

nice to see the FBI is too busy using all their resources investigating trump to investigate the fact the kid was reported to the FBI multiple times for violent threats and was on their radar but were never fully investigated until after he shot up a school.

What you're telling me is the Mueller and his team are the only FBI agents at all?

That's a stupid line of thinking.

There are thousands of FBI agents with several offices around the country. Mueller and his team are only one small part of it.

This was a failure of someone at the FBI's tip line to send it to a local FBI office (Miami in this case). Then, if it didn't get followed up on, or if the FBI didn't arrest the shooter, then it would've been the fault of the Miami office.

But nope, it's the whole FBI that's the issue. /s

[Ghostpanther]

Freedom of speech and the right to bear arms are totally different. The former is justifiable in itself, preventing the suppression of opinions and therefore allowing the best opinions to rise to the top, which, through shaping the laws and culture of a society, provide a huge benefit to it. The right to bear arms is nothing like that. It was once a necessary evil (the right to possess instruments that enable and trivialise killing and whose sole intended purpose is such will always be an evil) to ensure the integrity of the state and the safety of it's subjects at a time of territorial expansion which put both the government and it's people at risk from outside threats. Now, you could only call it a necessary evil due to the fact that the right already exists and people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from people who own guns. Unlike freedom of speech, it is not in itself an inherent 'good'.

Sorry. But as long as it is how it is now in the Constitution, I can exercise that right as I can any other Constitutional right. You are entitled to your opinion of it. But in reality, your opinion has no bearing on how I can exercise the Second Amendment right.

[Elegiac]

Well, atleast you are making a effort to be specific on what kind of gun control you want. That is good.

But I will take exception to some of your suggestions and only these points.

1. Gun safes. There are many ways a gun owner can secure their firearms. Which mainly should address minors or those who are not lawfully allow to possess them in your home. For myself, my firearms are locked in my computer room ( deadbolt ) when I have children or others I do not want them to have access to them visiting. We have no children at home now. But do on occasion have grandchildren visit.

No exceptions. If you can't afford a gun safe, you can't aford a gun.

2. Conceal carry is very important for several reasons. Some people out in the public will freak out over seeing a citizen carrying a firearm. Criminals, if they see you have one, you will be their first target to eliminate.

Considering guns don't prevent crimes, there's no reason to permit concealed carry.

3. In Ohio, if I have a license for a conceal carry, I can carry it loaded in my vehicle. I prefer it stay that way for quick access should I need it for self defense.

See above. If you want to defend yourself, get a knife or pepper spray.

[Pickynerd]

Wait, you drive around the streets with a loaded weapon in your car?? You sound like a fucking lunatic.

The tri-state area can be sketchy.

[kail]

nice to see the FBI is too busy using all their resources investigating trump to investigate the fact the kid was reported to the FBI multiple times for violent threats and was on their radar but were never fully investigated until after he shot up a school.

Do share your knowledge on how the FBI operates. You must be such an expert.

[Gaidax]

Sorry. But as long as it is how it is now in the Constitution, I can exercise that right as I can any other Constitutional right. You are entitled to your opinion of it. But in reality, your opinion has no bearing on how I can exercise the Second Amendment right.

It's ok, the momentum is growing, just needs a bunch of more corpses and this ancient amendment will be axed. I imagine eventually you will have another Vegas or even worse, then another one and another until this will become the kingmaker issue in the elections, then NRA won't be able to stop it.

It's just sad that many people will have to die before that happens.