Why putting Draenor Orcs on the Alliance is a very bad idea

[Zulkhan]

Honestly, people are too attached to old tropes and identities. Is change that scary?

Old tropes? Lol

Orcs and Humans are the beating hearts of their respective factions. You'll need more than just a different skin color to pretend that giving Orcs to the Alliance isn't going to fuck faction identity over.

If you do want change so badly, no matter how legitimately shitty it can be, then go for and demand the dismantling of factions; the moment faction identity will matter jackshit you'll not even have to care about putting races into factions in the first place.

[Maldarious]

Old tropes? Lol

Orcs and Humans are the beating hearts of their respective factions. You'll need more than just a different skin color to pretend that giving Orcs to the Alliance isn't going to fuck faction identity over.

If you do want change so badly, no matter how legitimately shitty it can be, then go for and demand the dismantling of factions; the moment faction identity will matter jackshit you'll not even have to care about putting races into factions in the first place.

A faction in this game is about more then the races that make each one up. It has been for awhile now. Why are you so hell bent on faction identity as your defense? The Legion had a hand in making the Horde what it is today. In AU Dreanor that never happened. The Horde of Azeroth was never created. As Grom screamed at the end. Dreanor is Free! The events that took place changed those Orcs for the better.

Their way will not be to follow the Banshee Queen Sylvanas. Not a chance in hell. She would need to die or step down as Warchief first. When that happens I will say Dreanor Orcs for the Horde.

- - - Updated - - -

Grom is present during the battle against Archimonde at the Black Gate. He fights alongside Khadgar, Yrel, and champions of Azeroth in overcoming the mighty demon lord, although Gul'dan escapes his wrath. After the battle, Grommash proclaims the victory and the freedom of Draenor to the gathered soldiers, and will work to rebuild his world alongside his former enemies.

"Former Enemies"

Grom battles alongside Khadgar and Yrel

Sounds to me like we got some Brown Orcs coming to the Alliance.

[Jastall]

Food for thought: The credibility for Brown Orcs and humans working together can be found at Wrathgate.

The brown Orcs that yell ''For the Horde!'' at the top of their lungs is your evidence that they would join the Alliance? Yeesh.

Also, I'll say what I previously said; the Alliance can have Saurfang and brown Orcs if we get Jaina and Kul'tirans. Or we could stop dreaming of stupid things that won't happen, but I realize that may be me being a killjoy.

[Zephre]

A faction in this game is about more then the races that make each one up. It has been for awhile now. Why are you so hell bent on faction identity as your defense? The Legion had a hand in making the Horde what it is today. In AU Dreanor that never happened. The Horde of Azeroth was never created. As Grom screamed at the end. Dreanor is Free! The events that took place changed those Orcs for the better.

Their way will not be to follow the Banshee Queen Sylvanas. Not a chance in hell. She would need to die or step down as Warchief first. When that happens I will say Dreanor Orcs for the Horde.

- - - Updated - - -



"Former Enemies"

Grom battles alongside Khadgar and Yrel

Sounds to me like we got some Brown Orcs coming to the Alliance.

The horde have more ties to the Draenor Orcs than the alliance or did you forget the Laughing Skull and Frostwolves, what do the alliance have? A handful of exiles from the shadowmoon clan, yet despite this, you still think the alliance should get orcs? The term grasping at straws applies heavily to you here.

" I want this to happen and I don't care how nonsensical it seems "

Fortunately as I've said before, you have absolutely nothing, nothing but headcannon and headcannon doesn't make things happen outside the minds of the deluded.

Well actually since you brought it up. If you check your facts the Orcs only became douchebags due to the Legion. They actually coexisted with the Draenei peacefully for some time. You can fact check that I didn't make it up.

Check YOUR facts, it wasn't the legion who made them douchebags in the AU, they took that upon themselves after they killed Mannoroth, they could of killed Gul'dan and gone back to their homes keeping a vigil over Draenor, instead they used him to power the portal and invaded Azeroth while attacking the draenei anyway. They may of co-existed but all it took was another orc, Garrosh, to send them to crazy smash town.

You strike me as the type of person who supported that crappy ending " Oh we've murdered countless innocents, but it's okay, we're forgiven because DRAENOR IS FREE "

[Deleted]

Old tropes? Lol

Orcs and Humans are the beating hearts of their respective factions. You'll need more than just a different skin color to pretend that giving Orcs to the Alliance isn't going to fuck faction identity over.

If you do want change so badly, no matter how legitimately shitty it can be, then go for and demand the dismantling of factions; the moment faction identity will matter jackshit you'll not even have to care about putting races into factions in the first place.

I have done that many times already. There's countless advantages to do away with the factions.

Also, the humans and orcs that give it identity are still there. These are different Orcs.
The horde has had human undead for ages and I saw no identity complaints. Or should I say that ripping off the skin and a bit of flesh isn't enough to make them different?

Stop being so scared of change. Horde will get something else in return if this happens. You should be excited about what that can be.

[Kemsa]

you know what is the best about this....

IF alliance get the Draenor Orcs, The Horde will get Kultiran Humans (yes the fat ones) it makes sense that the oposing race joins the oposing faction. So everyone who wants their Kultirans will need to reroll Horde

[Deleted]

The brown Orcs that yell ''For the Horde!'' at the top of their lungs is your evidence that they would join the Alliance? Yeesh.

Also, I'll say what I previously said; the Alliance can have Saurfang and brown Orcs if we get Jaina and Kul'tirans. Or we could stop dreaming of stupid things that won't happen, but I realize that may be me being a killjoy.

That's the spirit. Though if it happened, Jaina's mum is more likely.

[Zephre]

I have done that many times already. There's countless advantages to do away with the factions.

Also, the humans and orcs that give it identity are still there. These are different Orcs.
The horde has had human undead for ages and I saw no identity complaints. Or should I say that ripping off the skin and a bit of flesh isn't enough to make them different?

Stop being so scared of change. Horde will get something else in return if this happens.

The horde had human undead, yeah, because their models look exactly the same, right? If they all looked like Nathanos I would of agreed with you, but they don't. The orcs will look the exact same the only difference being skin colours. What you've tried to apply, does not apply.

I swear the lengths people like you will go to to try and get one up over the horde while hiding behind the pretence you're not an alliance fanboy is remarkable, the only people defending this and supporting this, are alliance players, are you all still salty about nightborne and no high elves that you'll watch the lore continue to take sledgehammers to the face?

Something are sacred and should remain that way, Alliance Humans and Horde Orcs, both are lines that shouldn't be crossed.

That's the spirit. Though if it happened, Jaina's mum is more likely.

That'll never happen and you know it, unless she's suddenly forgiven the horde for killing Daelin.

[Maldarious]

you know what is the best about this....

IF alliance get the Draenor Orcs, The Horde will get Kultiran Humans (yes the fat ones) it makes sense that the oposing race joins the oposing faction. So everyone who wants their Kultirans will need to reroll Horde

Why oh why do you always have to take things a step too far. Kultirans are in the Alliance hub (I do not want as an Allied race) and are definitely not an even swap for Brown Dreanor Orcs.

From my other posts the information is on the internet. I did my reading. In both our universe and alternate the Legion affected the Orcs and had it not been for the Legion the Orcs of our timeline wouldn't have even come to Azeroth because their planet wouldn't have been made uninhabitable by the fel. The Orcs were an instrument of the Legion to conquer our Azeroth. The Orcs didn't think it up all on their own.

Look I am not a lore nerd but I enjoy some of the stories in WoWs lore. Even have been known to get a book or two. The story for the AU Brown Dreanor Orcs is unwritten. No one has anything to base anything on other then how the expansion ended. Grom and his followers united with the Draenei on Dreanor to build a better world. Doesn't sound like a clan eager to join the Horde does it? Not saying they sound eager to join the Alliance either but if they are allied with the AU Draenei then I expect an allied Alliance race as unthinkable as that might be for members of the Horde and their faction identity of which this has no direct effect on because they aren't even our timeline Orcs.

Also if they are willing to leave AU Dreanor and help us Horde or Alliance there must be a time of piece on the AU Dreanor. If there is piece I am thinking they are not Horde material if you know what I mean or maybe they are looking to get back their savage roots and join the Horde. Who the hell knows? Only the devs do at this point and that's even if they got it all figured out yet.

[redfinale]

Basically Thrall/Go'el makes Outlands Mahgar on the alliance an impossibility. His wife is mahgari as is his grandmother. WoD almost makes draenor orcs on the alliance improbable. While both sides fought the iron hordr, only our horde started the xpac working WITH orcs in the form of the frostwolf and laughing skulls

[Maldarious]

Another very important fact we seem to have left off this topic is messing with the timeline. I don't know that we would even be permitted to have AU Dreanor Orcs come to our timeline. In fact I would expect the portals of time to be slammed and the keepers of time to lock the door now that the damage has been mitigated.

Leaving us to then go with our very own timeline Outland Orcs which I can guarantee are for the Horde! There is no maybe about that one. You can't even get a little confused.

I say again I am eager to start being able to fill in the blanks and stop with the guessing games. Be nice to get some concrete info but maybe all of us and our posts are in fact telling Blizzard what they want to know.

[Zephre]

Why oh why do you always have to take things a step too far. Kultirans are in the Alliance hub (I do not want as an Allied race) and are definitely not an even swap for Brown Dreanor Orcs.

From my other posts the information is on the internet. I did my reading. In both our universe and alternate the Legion affected the Orcs and had it not been for the Legion the Orcs of our timeline wouldn't have even come to Azeroth because their planet wouldn't have been made uninhabitable by the fel. The Orcs were an instrument of the Legion to conquer our Azeroth. The Orcs didn't think it up all on their own.

Look I am not a lore nerd but I enjoy some of the stories in WoWs lore. Even have been known to get a book or two. The story for the AU Brown Dreanor Orcs is unwritten. No one has anything to base anything on other then how the expansion ended. Grom and his followers united with the Draenei on Dreanor to build a better world. Doesn't sound like a clan eager to join the Horde does it? Not saying they sound eager to join the Alliance either but if they are allied with the AU Draenei then I expect an allied Alliance race as unthinkable as that might be for members of the Horde and their faction identity of which this has no direct effect on because they aren't even our timeline Orcs.

Also if they are willing to leave AU Dreanor and help us Horde or Alliance there must be a time of piece on the AU Dreanor. If there is piece I am thinking they are not Horde material if you know what I mean or maybe they are looking to get back their savage roots and join the Horde. Who the hell knows? Only the devs do at this point and that's even if they got it all figured out yet.

Once again, they took it upon themselves, even the chronicles confirmed this. When Gul'dan was dealt with and the legion ties were severed under Orgrim, instead of going somewhere to settle or returning to draenor, Ner'zhul had not shattered the leylines at this point damaging the world beyond repair. They decided to continue fighting the alliance as a means to survive, this was Orgrim's plan. The orcs have never been a bunch of peaceful hippies outside the likes of Thrall, so the idea of Saurfang suddenly going alliance and convincing Grom and friends to join the alliance is absolutely laughable.

In regards to the AU Draenei, last I checked and heard they're at a stalemate, they couldn't arrest Grom or kill him because a substantial amount of orcs still followed him, which is why he got a get out of jail free card, this was the work of Dave Kosak, formerly the lead narrative designer.

What's amusing is how people such as yourself can't see how this negatively impacts the horde faction and cheapens it by giving alliance players orcs, including some of the orcs greatest heroes, you literally cannot see beyond your desire to have them as playable on the alliance.

[Jastall]

That's the spirit. Though if it happened, Jaina's mum is more likely.

Yeah, the woman that banishes her own daughter for allying with the Horde and causing Daelin's death, will then ally with the Horde.

Even by Blizzard standards this would be stupid. And I don't say this lightly.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

If they give the Alliance orcs they may as well dissolve the factions entirely and let everyone play together.

I don't think that'd be a bad thing so long as we're given credible threats. It's kind of silly how we go from fighting together for the greater good to then fighting each other to satisfy what is now a dated concept of Orcs vs Humans.

All we have to do is get rid of Genn, Jaina, Sylvanas and Nathanos and we're pretty much there.

[Shakou]

Seriously? How the fuck is this even a discussion? This is not a thing that's happening. >.>

[Maldarious]

Once again, they took it upon themselves, even the chronicles confirmed this. When Gul'dan was dealt with and the legion ties were severed under Orgrim, instead of going somewhere to settle or returning to draenor, Ner'zhul had not shattered the leylines at this point damaging the world beyond repair. They decided to continue fighting the alliance as a means to survive, this was Orgrim's plan. The orcs have never been a bunch of peaceful hippies outside the likes of Thrall, so the idea of Saurfang suddenly going alliance and convincing Grom and friends to join the alliance is absolutely laughable.

In regards to the AU Draenei, last I checked and heard they're at a stalemate, they couldn't arrest Grom or kill him because a substantial amount of orcs still followed him, which is why he got a get out of jail free card, this was the work of Dave Kosak, formerly the lead narrative designer.

What's amusing is how people such as yourself can't see how this negatively impacts the horde faction and cheapens it by giving alliance players orcs, including some of the orcs greatest heroes, you literally cannot see beyond your desire to have them as playable on the alliance.

No I can see quite far past it because I don't have the desire. If I did I would play Horde and not Alliance these past 13 or so years. I am just getting excited and I enjoy thinking these things thru. But going back to my last post I really don't see how taking AU Orcs is even a possible thing. No matter who gets them it is messing with both our timeline and this alternate AU timeline. So after pages and pages I think I put the theory to bed. It shouldn't be able to happen from the AU Dreanor.

If it does then Blizzard has some explain to do and why it is being permitted by the Keepers of Time.

[corebit]

I have done that many times already. There's countless advantages to do away with the factions.

That's not doing away with the factions. Doing away with the factions means letting Alliance and Horde be able to group up for dungeons/PVP.

Giving brown orcs to the Alliance does nothing to help that. Not only you will still have that divide that doesn't allow you to group up, instead you will have fucked the lore up so much, a significant portion of the playerbase will quit in disgust.

It's a lose-lose situation.

[Zephre]

No I can see quite far past it because I don't have the desire. If I did I would play Horde and not Alliance these past 13 or so years. I am just getting excited and I enjoy thinking these things thru. But going back to my last post I really don't see how taking AU Orcs is even a possible thing. No matter who gets them it is messing with both our timeline and this alternate AU timeline. So after pages and pages I think I put the theory to bed. It shouldn't be able to happen from the AU Dreanor.

If it does then Blizzard has some explain to do and why it is being permitted by the Keepers of Time.

Oh I do agree, it shouldn't be AU orcs, the portal was destroyed so technically there shouldn't be away back to AU draenor without the assistance of the dragons, after all, it was a dragon that took Garrosh there in the first place. The idea of it being Draenor Orcs was from Ion Hazzikostas but we don't know the term he referred to it in, as outland is still technically draenor even in it's shattered state, the datamined map is what people are clinging to regarding AU orcs but that map is a very old map, WOD Alpha.

The recent datamining of the mag'har war wolf as well could indicate it's not AU orcs but this is entirely a matter for debate. I've said in another thread, I don't want it to be AU orcs as it cheapens the actions of Grom, Durotan and others from our main time line. There's a ton of orcs sitting on a shattered world that is still literally falling apart and their idea would be to make us go to AU draenor, a world in perfect condition and recruit them for a faction war, that's just plain silly.

[Maldarious]

That's not doing away with the factions. Doing away with the factions means letting Alliance and Horde be able to group up for dungeons/PVP.

Giving brown orcs to the Alliance does nothing to help that. Not only you will still have that divide that doesn't allow you to group up, instead you will have fucked the lore up so much, a significant portion of the playerbase will quit in disgust.

It's a lose-lose situation.

Not trying to defend it because again I don't believe we should be permitted to tamper with the AU Dreanor timeline anymore but just the fact that we are talking about AU makes it have no relevance to our own timeline's lore. AU Dreanor has it's own story to tell. Those Orcs have a much different future having removed the Legion from their world. Again having no bearing on our lore. Those characters in that timeline never become the characters we know from our own. Again not messing with our own lore.

I am still now focused on the timeline crap. Our lore shouldn't be in jeopardy only because we shouldn't be permitted to return to AU Dreanor further disrupting the natural flow of time.

[corebit]

Not trying to defend it because again I don't believe we should be permitted to tamper with the AU Dreanor timeline anymore but just the fact that we are talking about AU makes it have no relevance to our own timeline's lore. AU Dreanor has it's own story to tell. Those Orcs have a much different future having removed the Legion from their world. Again having no bearing on our lore. Those characters in that timeline never become the characters we know from our own. Again not messing with our own lore.

I am still now focused on the timeline crap. Our lore shouldn't be in jeopardy only because we shouldn't be permitted to return to AU Dreanor further disrupting the natural flow of time.

We still haven't confirmed whether the orcs will be AU or MU though. Yes Ion said "Draenor orcs", but the datamined information points to Mag'har. I am thinking it will be the Mag'har.