Why legion was probably the worst expansion ever

[Master Guns]

You're trying too hard.

That doesn't even make sense considering I'm not the one who made this bait thread.

Which it clearly was. 0/10

[Fabinas]

LOL x10000

Legion is one of the best expansions Blizz has put together. The effort is evident.

Get this trash poster out of here, they're drunk.

No, just no.

[Army Dreamer]

Funny enough, I kinda agree with all the points raised by the OP.

[Swalload]

Some of the players here seems to be praising legion, they can barely point out any problems, and they are praising legion to a point where some of the praise starts to become a little bit delusional.

I have a somewhat different opinion about legion and thought it was one of the worst expansions.

• Questing was awful in some of the areas. Some of the quests were bugged and would sometimes show a wrong quest mark on the minimap, plus they gave you an absolute abysmal amount of experience in the beginning. Some of the questing areas were poorly designed and the terrain in high mountain was awful to navigate through, so you would spend way too much time returning some of the quests.
• Artifact Power is a boring and repetitive grinding loop. Same goes for grinding nethershards and veiled argunites, you just do the same mindless and repetitive grinding over and over again just for the sake of grinding, there is no sense of having accomplished anything.
• Gearing was a pain in the ass in the beginning and you had to waste an absurd amount of time just to get good enough gear for LFR. World quests were a joke and would often give you worse gear than you already had.
  
• World Quests were a joke to complete, and you often spend more time flying to the quest than you would completing it.
  
• LFR is a joke. I realize its supposed to be for beginners, but seriously. LFR in legion is so mind-numbingly boring and easy that you could go out in the kitchen, make a cup of coffe, come back and then pick up your loot. The bosses in LFR are masochists; they don't fight you back, they are just waiting for you to come kill them and grab their treasures.
• Argus is some of the most boring, bland and uninspiring content ever produced in world of warcraft.
  
• Legiondaries are a joke. They drop randomly so we don't have to do anything to earn them, its disgraceful the way blizzard designed this system. What's the point of playing the game if the best items are given to you by luck?
  
• PvP is problably the worst of any expansion.

In summary, legion was a boring and mindless grindfest based on RNG, and it was a very unpolished expansion.

Some of the players here can barely get their hands down from excitement over legion, but I have to say that legion was problably one of the worst expansions that I have played.

You know what's really awesome about video games?

You can quit at any time and play a different one without crying.

Too bad you decide to not understand a single thing about life and just torture yourself while crying very loudly instead of shutting the fuck up about your meaningless opinions.

[Deleted]

Im guessing this is just a troll post.
But then again, like every expansion, people are gonna hate it at the end, and then in +2 expansions it is gonna be the best think blizzard ever made.
For me, I like every expansion, as long as blizzard are bringing new things, then im happy.

[fishoa]

Just ask any Hunter what they think of Legion, lol.

Garbage expansion.

[Yerbury]

Most of the posters here who are praising legion are usually too dumb to make an argument as to why they think it was a good expansion.

It seems like the only few serious posters in this thread dislikes legion for various reasons.

Somehow, im glad im not one of those who is praising legion.

My post (#456) set out quite nicely why (i) I like Legion and (ii) at least one of your primary arguments holds no weight. I don't mind being called 'dumb', but I'd prefer it if the context justified it.

Your opinions are your opinions, but reducing the conversational tone to name-calling doesn't help your cause much.

[jayinjersey]

The only one I will completely agree on is the Legendary system.


The fact that you may have had to randomly run through an entire list of legendaries to get the one that was crucial to your class/spec was absurd. especially since there was zero mechanism to gauge how much further you were toward getting the next just a "it could happen anytime"

And god forbid you play 2 different specs.

I had to run through all the Frost legendaries to get the TW Ring...and I'm still missing only the brazers in Fire.

[klaps_05]

The example traits shown at Blizzcon were a choice between:

Ghost Wolf Speed.

Damage Reduction on Astral Shift.

Situation: Billy can either move out of fire faster or take less damage from fire.


WOW SO EXCITING TELL ME MORE.

If that's the example you use to hype your exciting new system at BLIZZCON then god help how boring the rest of the fucking traits are.




I don't know much about Frost Mage. But for my spec - Havoc. Going back to a 4 minute cooldown on metamorphasis, being capped at 100 fury, no double slash etc. Losing all of these things slow gameplay down. Its boring.

Going back to the 7.0 pre-patch..... Hilarious.



You ignore the main point I am trying to make too.


You shouldn't have to pump 5 million Azerite and gain 3 RNG Legendar.... I mean Azerite Pieces; for your class to feel whole and FUN again.

Why do we have to level with a shit boring spec. Why do we have to wait 6 months before it becomes fun again? (Legion specs didn't feel whole until the 7.2 conchordance traits and 2 BiS legendaries. Arguably some STILL don't feel whole.)

I am not hyping up anything as very little is known. What happens when those 9 traits are more than just a passive? Blizzcon is always a simple preview rather than a finished product. And as I said, the new system depends on how good these 9 traits are, but pretending to be losing so much while in reality you dont is also incorrect.

And this is not something new - specs have changed each expansion and they always feel slower at start.

The new legendary effects from the azerite pieces are also 1) not random as they said all traits are predetermined and you can always see what they are, 2) easily targetable and 3) come at max ilevel only. With 3 passive legendary effects and the possibility to easily swap them to different pieces with legendary effect thats a lot of versatility for each spec.

They need to build upon the existing good traits(3-5 per spec) and forget about baseline passives. But again, we dont know what they have made as no one has access to it on alpha.

[Very Tired]

Person thinks the current expansion is the worst one ever? That's new.

[GRAMMARAXIS]

Some of the players here seems to be praising legion, they can barely point out any problems, and they are praising legion to a point where some of the praise starts to become a little bit delusional.

I have a somewhat different opinion about legion and thought it was one of the worst expansions.

• Questing was awful in some of the areas. Some of the quests were bugged and would sometimes show a wrong quest mark on the minimap, plus they gave you an absolute abysmal amount of experience in the beginning. Some of the questing areas were poorly designed and the terrain in high mountain was awful to navigate through, so you would spend way too much time returning some of the quests.
• Artifact Power is a boring and mindless grinding loop. Same goes for grinding nethershards and veiled argunites, you just do the same mindless and repetitive grinding over and over again just for the sake of grinding, there is no sense of having accomplished anything.
• Gearing was a pain in the ass in the beginning and you had to waste an absurd amount of time just to get good enough gear for LFR.
  
• World Quests were a joke and would sometimes give you worse gear than you already had. Sometimes it would take longer to get to the quests than actually completing them.
  
• LFR is a joke. I realize its supposed to be for beginners, but seriously. LFR in legion is so mind-numbingly boring and easy that you could go out in the kitchen, make a cup of coffe, come back and then pick up your loot. The bosses in LFR are masochists; they don't fight you back, they are just waiting for you to come kill them and grab their treasures.
• Argus is some of the most boring, bland and uninspiring content ever produced in world of warcraft.
  
• Legiondaries are a joke. They are based on RNG so we don't have to do anything to earn them, its disgraceful the way blizzard designed this system. What's the point of playing the game if the best items are given to you by luck?
  
• PvP is problably the worst of any expansion.

In summary, legion was a boring and mindless grindfest with broken RNG mechanics, and it was a very unpolished expansion.

Some of the players here can barely get their hands down from excitement over legion, but I have to say that legion was problably one of the worst expansions that I have played.

Without going too "fanboy" or "I hate this", I'll give my own opinions to your points:

1) Partially Agreed -- Did not enjoy most leveling areas this time around. Thankful for the invasions for all my alts. Enjoyed that they didn't abandoned the game and added more content to it over time. So it was a complete 180 for me when comparing this expansion to the last, as I enjoyed the leveling in WoD but disliked most of the rest of it (aside from challenge modes).
2) Agreed
3) Agreed for different reasons: Legendaries, too much RNG, etc.
4) Actually enjoyed World Quests for a while. Definite positive experience and glad they attempted it. Hope they refine it. The items only capped once you got to a certain ilvl and it's unreal to expect them to give you mythic quality gear as a whole. It would also be even more RNG on top of the RNG cake.
5) Disagree greatly. In fact, the last couple bosses wipe people constantly. Besides, it is supposed to be mind numbingly boring and easy. Just don't play it? Maybe, you know, actually do Normal and Heroic and Mythic if you're too leet for something not intended for you in the first place? Honestly, this alone and implying WoD was better than Legion would make me think you're just trying to bait people as a whole.
6) Argus looks nice. It was sloppily made where they couldn't unlock all world quests for alts or allow flying in it. They tried to unlock initial ones and make the forge available to alts, but they revealed how poorly made it was in the back end. Still the most fun I've had most of the expansion, though. It's also a substantial update and one that I'm thankful for after the poorly made and abandoned WoD.
7) Agreed
8) The main problem with PvP was the RNG item randomization, in my opinion. As well as the class gutting at the start.

It wasn't a great expansion. Probably the second or third worst. But even hinting that it was worse than WoD is going a step too far in my opinion. In the case of Legion -- aside from boring leveling areas comparatively speaking -- most of the problems were just A LOT of little things that piled up and ruined the experience as a whole. Things that are incredibly easy to fix and tweak for the next expansion if they use similar formulas as a whole. In essence, I think this expansion was a step in the right direction if they take the lessons learned from it and use them in the next couple.

[cparle87]

My only real complaints about Legion are that there was "too much to do" and that it took a year to be told about what exactly would be Legion-only and what would be obtainable in the future.

Yeah, that's kinda my takeaway. At the start of the xpac I'd clear the map of WQs and do every M0 and LFR each week. As they added Broken Shore and Argus I found myself only doing M0s if they had a WQ or to make my nether disruptor leggo, and only did the most recent LFRs. There's not enough time to do everything, even on one toon.

[klaps_05]

More than just a passive? Lmfao.

In what world is a Necklace going to provide an active ability? You're going from "Azeroths strongest weapons of legend"... To a fucking Necklace.

Blizzcon is where you hype your new product. If the preview showed 2 shitty passives - the rest are going to be passives. Some might be more exciting than others but they have to fill the void of:

Full Artifact traits and 7.2 conchordance - 22 traits.
1 active ability.
2 BiS legendary effects(many, many more situational ones).
Set bonuses(some people hate them, but they mix gameplay up).

^ You're telling me a Necklace and 3 pieces of armour with minor traits on them are going to do all of that. Hilarious.


Also I didn't say the traits on Azerite pieces were random. I meant that what we currently know is that there are 3 slots for them. I am going to assume there will be multiple pieces of each slot.... Some will inevitably be better than others..... They drop off bosses etc. See where I'm going with this yet?

The more we find out about Azerite pieces... The more they sound like legendaries. Dressed up and re-named so as to not incite rage in the community.




We know exactly what has been made baseline - which is very little to NOTHING. Existing great traits + legendaries have been shoved into existing talent trees. Do some research or stop posting. Cheers.

You lose 1 ability. Some specs dont even lose the ability as its put in the talents in place of stuff that is never picked anyway in any situation. Lore-aspect aside - whether its a necklace or a weapon, it doesnt matter. A necklace does allow you to finally transmog the weapon style you want which a lot of people complained about early on.

Blizzcon hyped all the features of BFA, the HoA being one of them. I didnt say the necklace will provide an ability - I said it will have meaningful traits and this is why you go through alpha and beta: to give feedback that you dont like boring passives but prefer ones that impact gameplay, such as blink providing a heal, scorch giving movement speed, frost trait making blizzard instant, etc. - and these medium-high impact traits are very few per spec.

Again, they dont need to fill the void of all your passive traits because there is 0 interaction between the player and the passives. And if Meta cd or fury cap impacts DHs so much, it will be reported enough and they can simply change the CD of meta. Or they can keep it 4 min because they want to change the playstyle of DHs.

Each special armor pieces center "trait" is supposed to be similar to a legendary effect (since they are always ilevel capped, similar to the legendary system where you upgrade them when a new tier comes, easily swapable around) but instead of gambling on which legiondary i will get next, you are able to see in advance which item has which properties and target them specifically. How is them being a drop off a short loot table not better than farming RNG legiondary? Also it is still not defined if they will drop only from raid bosses.

Set bonuses being removed is a massive step forward - everyone is complaining how majority of their item slots are locked atm, this way at least you dont worry about 2pc and 4pc.

You know what has been made baseline so far. Just two weeks ago they were giving certain specs brand new spells baseline. Some artifact abilities turned to talents, some legendaries turn to talents, new spells are added while certain spells removed. Perhaps you should do more research, wait when you have a better picture of what is coming, not the short level 116 version, or stop posting. Cheers.

[Battlebeard]

FFS you need to change the title to 'Why I think legion was probably the worst expansion ever', because it definitely wasn't.

I agree, he does need to say "think" cause people have different opinions. However I agree with OP, it's in my opinion also the worst by far.

- - - Updated - - -

You know what's really awesome about video games?

You can quit at any time and play a different one without crying.

Too bad you decide to not understand a single thing about life and just torture yourself while crying very loudly instead of shutting the fuck up about your meaningless opinions.

Come on, what is that attitude... "if you don't like it GTFO". WoW has been around for many years and have a lot of loyal fans, is it strange that we ask for things that we want to be better? You seem to think Blizzard are almighy and can't make mistakes?

I don't know how you have been raised, but with your attitude, you prolly sit queit in the corner and getting pushed around. I am raised that if someone doesn't sit well with me, I say something about it. The loudest guy in the room usually gets his way, and this is not a bad thing to follow.

I hate Legion with all my heart, but I still have hope for WoW, I still wanna play WoW, just not Legion. I will never, ever shut up and just accept something I think is utter garbage and I am happy OP made this thread, as it covers a lot about my problems with Legion too.

[Vorkreist]

Calling it the worst expansion ever is a stretch but I'd rate it between cata and wod.

[Mormolyce]

I look forward having this argument again for every future expansion as we did for every expansion in the past.

[Vorkreist]

Feedback was ignored for all of the Legion Alpha - it's currently being ignored again. What do you think is going to change? Their "vision" is all that matters.

Its so funny to see this happening EVERY SINGLE EXP ALPHA/BETA CYCLE. And the same lobotomized reaction from the whiteknights: "Dur hur you hat0r, its just alphae, its gonna be changed" Forward to release and all the crap and stupid design that people reported since alpha 0.1 its still there.

[klaps_05]

You lose 1 ability. Then several specs are losing MORE again. Baseline spells that have been around for years. Turned into talents with no rhyme or reason. Please tell me your reasoning for making Shadow Word: Death a talent? Please. The ability is 10+ years old.

And as per usual - complete radio silence from Blizzard. Zero communication on Alpha boards or Class Design forums. ZERO.

Yes they are giving us back some baseline UTILITY spells like soothe and tranq shot - those never should have been taken away in the first place. For you to be "stoked" to be receiving shit they took away from you back is hilarious in itself. It's typical of your average Blizztard. "OMG we're getting _____ back!" It's actually sad this is how far the fanbase has fallen.


Feedback was ignored for all of the Legion Alpha - it's currently being ignored again. What do you think is going to change? Their "vision" is all that matters.


It's sad that you're actually hyped about receiving traits/legendaries that you had for a whole expansion back in the HoA/Azerite system. YAYYY ITS GIFTED BACK.


I'm completely fine with Artifact abilities being made talents if they can't be made baseline IF there is a new talent row to accomodate them? Why the fuck are they being shoved into EXISTING TALENT ROWS. Character power has not progressed since level 100.

Why must specs now choose the ability and lose something in return. You're going to take the artifact ability 90% of the time because lets face it - ability bars are BARREN.


This is of course all aside from the fact that you don't seem to be able to grasp the issue. Specs/Classes are completely gimped and gutted without Artifacts - they were SPECIFICALLY designed this way. To be fleshed out by a fully upgraded Artifact + Legendaries. Basically "fixed" by items.

It's happening again.

Why should the base spec be absolute dogshit to play without 5million Azerite and 3 Azerite Armor Slots invested into it?

I'm waiting genius.

If we look at SWD as an example and it being a talent, how do you know it makes or it doesnt make sense when you have not had the chance to play the class at 120 with HoA, the 3 azerite pieces and the final version of the class? I am not saying it will be better, worse, smoother or more difficult to play it, I am saying you don't know.

Blizzard ignoring feedback is not something new - tons of feedback was given during all alphas and betas, especially pre-Cataclysm and they ignored most of it. This is the blizzard way - as developers, they have an "image" of each spec each expansion. Maybe you like it, maybe you dont, thats why many people simply reroll as there are so many different specs now I dont even remember the count.

I am not hyped for getting back stuff they removed - like I said before, I would like to see traits which are IMPACTFUL similar to the ones i listed, because they actually provide you with niche utilities. I dont want to see the current existing ones returning, but rather new ones which they come up with. If they end up the same like now (emphasis on impactful traits, not the passive stuff), then at least you arent losing much as a player, if they are different - great, new things to discover how to utilize.

So far most legendaries/artifact abilities which were put into talents replaced stuff no one uses, and yes, in certain cases like Fire mage, the change sucks, but its better than losing it. Would I love to have an extra talent row? I certainly will, but its their vision how the class should be played.

What you dont seem to grasp is that like every expansion, they want to CHANGE your playstyle in BFA. If the specs were entirely based on the artifact traits then removing that completely changes your playstyle does it not? Why are you so clinged onto the current playstyle and not look into what the new one can be? (Which you know very little about because you havent been past level 116)

How come artifacts made it to Legion then and you grinded your soul out for 35, 50 and 75 traits? Because its an MMO and its supposed to be grindy(while still not even close to a real grindy MMO) and a system like AP/Azerite means you need to continue to play and invest time in the game. But blizzard is nice and also gave you catch up methods. The endgame isnt center only on get 16 items and you are done anymore.

Why should the base spec be absolute dogshit to play without all that grind?
Why shouldnt it be? Why should the spec be great if you arent willing to invest in it? Why should you pull solid numbers without investing in it?

[rda]

Why should the base spec be absolute dogshit to play without all that grind?
Why shouldnt it be? Why should the spec be great if you arent willing to invest in it? Why should you pull solid numbers without investing in it?

You just lost the argument.

Because it's not fun. You are advocating making the characters clumsy at first and making money on selling the cure for that (from months /played required to make the spec playable, we are paying a sub here). This is a non-starter.

--
Here is a similar position to what you are venturing:

"The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes."

If you don't know what this is, Google it. Note how well that went.

[klaps_05]

You just lost the argument.

Because it's not fun. You are advocating making the characters clumsy at first and making money on selling the cure for that (from months /played required to make the spec playable, we are paying a sub here). This is a non-starter.

--
Here is a similar position to what you are venturing:

"The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes."

If you don't know what this is, Google it. Note how well that went.

So essentially you want a game without a system which allows additional character development on max level outside of simple items. Thats ok, but Blizzard currently likes that and as long as that system is in game, base specs status is irrelevant. Blizzard tells you the primary system for character advancement is X and you refuse to follow it. You are basically refusing to play the game.

The game doesnt revolve around base specs. The base specs "experience" is more or less an additional leveling. First you level to max level. Then you level your weapon/HoA to max level while doing more content. Content is released at the pace at which blizzard expects players to advance on average, e.g. 50 traits benchmark for final NH bosses.

I dont see how the SWBF topic is relevant - in that case the issue was you either Play and get your stuff, or Pay the company and get your stuff. The latter doesnt exist in WoW.

Given that we also dont know 1) how/when do you have access to the azerite armors, 2) how quickly do you collect azerite and 3) how exactly the HoA advacement/levels work, and you have no idea if the base specs are good because you havent played up to 120 either, what are the judgements of what is good or bad based on?