You freaking gutless devs

[Charge me Doctor]

Paladins shouldent have an execute

only warriors should have an execute

Only warriors should have execute, and paladins with a talent. It seems fair to me, since paladins and warriors are... kinda... same...

[Craaazyyy]

It kinda is. If you're going to have talents, making them an actual choice is more interesting than just everyone using the same build all the time, in which case you should just drop the pretense and give everyone everything in the first place.

And there's something to be said about some talents needing to be baseline, I agree. But that's more of an issue with some individual talents, not worth throwing the OP's temper tantrum over, and again let's not act as if some stuff in ye olden days shouldn't have been baseline too. It's an eternal cycle really.

current talents arent actually that big of a choice.. most of the time you have to change them based on the fight or comp you play against in pvp(or what u play yourself too).. you dont choose anything you just take things that are better for that specific fight and you cant not take them if you want to do the most healing/damage

[Mifuyne]

current talents arent actually that big of a choice.. most of the time you have to change them based on the fight.. you dont choose anything you just take things that are better for that specific fight and you cant not take them if you want to do the most healing/damage

So..just like it always was?

[Eon Drache]

First, I hope you read my op again and then my 4-5 explanations how the thread was meant to be whiny, not constructive
the time of constructive criticism died during wod and legion alpha, they dont listen, they dont care

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wow, it so awesome, only to make some abilities better in sutiation X while others in Y and build some mechanic between them, just awesome.
Are you against having buttons? why? cant remember more than 30 binds?

There isn't a need for that many buttons. I wouldn't have a problem with the memory but more so my left hand can't reach 30 buttons in a rotation. At this point I play almost entirely on muscle memory as most of the fundamental abilities haven't changed in years. In my example there would still be 7 main buttons as Hammer of the Righteous and Divine Storm both shared CDs with other abilities so you wouldn't use them in the same rotation.

Most people use 1-5 for their rotation. Some have wasd keybound to strafe keys still. Let us assume they unbound those, though. In reach of your hand would be 23 keys before you start having to peck at keys further away from your hand. You can extend this by a bit with modifiers but it shouldn't be necessary. I don't know a single game that would require 30 buttons to be used all within a 1.25 second action list. My ret rotation is 1 press every 1.21 seconds. During Lust/Hero that becomes 1 every .75 seconds. A bit much for any game. Not hard, just not necessary.

[Craaazyyy]

So..just like it always was?

yes and now.. old talent trees got streamlined and changed so alot of talents became inferior.. in tbc you had alot of builds and then in wrath it was less and less.. and then in cata they gutted trees

but what was better is that atleast you had alot of baseline abilities FOR ALL specs and talents were just altering those specs and make them unique while keeping the overall class feeling in place.. and in reality with that specs felt more unique than now actually.. especially when you compare specs to some other class specs..

but again that wasnt my point..

my point is that having abilities that we used to have baseline or were always using back in the days as talents competing with 2 other talents is pretty lame

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There isn't a need for that many buttons. I wouldn't have a problem with the memory but more so my left hand can't reach 30 buttons in a rotation. At this point I play almost entirely on muscle memory as most of the fundamental abilities haven't changed in years. In my example there would still be 7 main buttons as Hammer of the Righteous and Divine Storm both shared CDs with other abilities so you wouldn't use them in the same rotation.

Most people use 1-5 for their rotation. Some have wasd keybound to strafe keys still. Let us assume they unbound those, though. In reach of your hand would be 23 keys before you start having to peck at keys further away from your hand. You can extend this by a bit with modifiers but it shouldn't be necessary. I don't know a single game that would require 30 buttons to be used all within a 1.25 second action list. My ret rotation is 1 press every 1.21 seconds. During Lust/Hero that becomes 1 every .75 seconds. A bit much for any game. Not hard, just not necessary.

its not about pressing 30 buttons within 1.25 seconds.. wow has a gcd btw

its about having more situational abilities that can make big difference in outcome of the game in pvp for example

[Deleted]

Well you ll just have to see how the classic servers will fare. Honestly I hope they will be successful, because it would perhaps make game developers understand that the current MMORPG game design (that is chasing after casual players who'd mostly want to play solo and to endlessly farm loot) is a dead end, and start to actually try to design relevant RPGs.

I hope it does well too, means Blizzard gets more money to make more games I enjoy. And current game design is obviously not at a dead end, retail rakes in the money. Designing games around 'hardcore' players will always be niche, money will always lie in the casual majority of the playerbase.

[amishjello]

they are wrong, I am 100% confident that people who are this stupid (probably less than 90 iq) to find current specs challenging and fun are in total minority from overall playerbase (both currently playing and retired)

You must be fun at parties.

Just because people like and enjoy something you don't does not mean they have a sub-90 IQ.

[tyrlaan]

First, I hope you read my op again and then my 4-5 explanations how the thread was meant to be whiny, not constructive
the time of constructive criticism died during wod and legion alpha, they dont listen, they dont care

In case you come back or make an alt account - with this quote you undo all your attempts to criticize others, such as myself, for not "debating". Congratulations.

[Eon Drache]

its not about pressing 30 buttons within 1.25 seconds.. wow has a gcd btw

its about having more situational abilities that can make big difference in outcome of the game in pvp for example

You realize 1.25 seconds IS about what a retribution paladins GCD is. I'm not saying you'd press 30 buttons in 1.25 seconds. Im saying you press one every 1.25 seconds. I didn't touch on the situational abilities at all. Things change and, for ret, the pruning started in cataclysm. And again, it isn't necessary to have all of those situational abilities.

[Craaazyyy]

You realize 1.25 seconds IS about what a retribution paladins GCD is. I'm not saying you'd press 30 buttons in 1.25 seconds. Im saying you press one every 1.25 seconds. I didn't touch on the situational abilities at all. Things change and, for ret, the pruning started in cataclysm. And again, it isn't necessary to have all of those situational abilities.

it is necessary to have them..

also what did they prune in cata? and didnt give anything instead? in cata they gave rets tempars verdict, kick, word of glory, guardian of ancient kings, inquisition, zealotry

[Eon Drache]

it is necessary to have them..

also what did they prune in cata? and didnt give anything instead? in cata they gave rets tempars verdict, kick, word of glory, guardian of ancient kings, inquisition, zealotry

Divine Intervention. I loved the hell out of that ability. But guess what? It wasn't necessary. Having those situational skills you never touch don't add skill to the game. Some of the do add flavor. Divine Intervention was a flavor skill.

[Divinexve]

The devs are about as gutless as Patchwerk from naxx

[Craaazyyy]

Divine Intervention. I loved the hell out of that ability. But guess what? It wasn't necessary. Having those situational skills you never touch don't add skill to the game. Some of the do add flavor. Divine Intervention was a flavor skill.

well u dont need all the shit u used to have.. but having alot less is really bad

losing something and then adding two things instead isnt bad.. losing 5 things and adding 1 is bad

also divine intervention was practically useless.. im not talking about abilities like that.. im talking about useful abilities.. abilities u were using all the time

[Eon Drache]

well u dont need all the shit u used to have.. but having alot less is really bad

losing something and then adding two things instead isnt bad.. losing 5 things and adding 1 is bad

also divine intervention was practically useless.. im not talking about abilities like that.. im talking about useful abilities.. abilities u were using all the time

I used DI all the time in Battlegrounds. Saw a bot? DI them because their kit didn't remove DI and it actually got them kicked out of the BG. It also made it easier to res the group after a wipe. Far from useless. Saved 2 people a repair bill also.

[MoanaLisa]

First, I hope you read my op again and then my 4-5 explanations how the thread was meant to be whiny, not constructive

I'm not quite sure why this has been left open as long as it has but the furor over the thread has died down and in light of what I just quoted I'm going to close it.

There are other threads discussing in a more constructive way class changes both in this forum and the specific class forums so you can address your concerns there.

Closed.