Fire Blast and Phoenix's Flames

[Tokas]

Hi,

I'm just leveling mage, haven't unlocked Phoenix skill yet, but at least on paper it seems that we just have two buttons that could be baked in to 1, no?

[CptEgo]

Jep, PF is boring as shit but has become a very important part of the rotation. So alot of people are wondering how that's going to work out when artifact weapons are gone.

[Nyoken]

Jep, PF is boring as shit but has become a very important part of the rotation. So alot of people are wondering how that's going to work out when artifact weapons are gone.

They gonna keep the ability afterwards, it's not going away.

[Tokas]

They gonna keep the ability afterwards, it's not going away.

Let's hope they bake FB in then.

[Alvito]

While they are similiar they are not the same. FB hits instantly, PF has a slow travel time and spreads to other people. The spread can be good and bad I have seen plenty of bad mages pull extra groups in mythic +. FB is off the GCD also and can be cast while casting other spells, neither is true for PF.

[Swizzle]

Let's hope they bake FB in then.

They are not. Fire Blast is still a baseline ability with two charges. Phoenix Flames is a talent that competes with another currently REQUIRED talent for Fire to function in Flame On! In essence, you have to choose between getting a new ability that fills a gap in your rotation making it better to play, or a mandatory upgrade to a spell we've had since Vanilla.

[Shullski]

They dont share a single characteristic other than the fact that they both crit. Totally different abilities.

[Nitros14]

I really don't think fire mage would feel much different without phoenix flames.

[Swizzle]

I really don't think fire mage would feel much different without phoenix flames.

One less spell to cast overall. three less Hot Streak Procs during Combustion, less chance to proc while moving, lowered AoE output on the move. They would feel VERY different than live.

[Nitros14]

One less spell to cast overall. three less Hot Streak Procs during Combustion, less chance to proc while moving, lowered AoE output on the move. They would feel VERY different than live.

Yeah but you could just give fire blast five charges and two charges recharging at a time and hardly anything would change except minor aoe.

[Tokas]

Yeah but you could just give fire blast five charges and two charges recharging at a time and hardly anything would change except minor aoe.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Swizzle]

Yeah but you could just give fire blast five charges and two charges recharging at a time and hardly anything would change except minor aoe.

Except they have the difference in travel time, and Fire Blast can be cast while something else is queued. But sure, if we give Fire Blast five charges, then we lose a spell and two talents, which is always fun in a progression based RPG.

[Tokas]

Except they have the difference in travel time, and Fire Blast can be cast while something else is queued. But sure, if we give Fire Blast five charges, then we lose a spell and two talents, which is always fun in a progression based RPG.

You seem to miss the point here, nobody is gathering here with burning torches to lose as many spells as possible.
But in this case those two are very similar, might as well bake them together to get something unique in return.
Or do you want them to keep adding new spells without taking old ones? Just how many fingers have you got? Would suck to have 20 rotational spells!

[Swizzle]

You seem to miss the point here, nobody is gathering here with burning torches to lose as many spells as possible.
But in this case those two are very similar, might as well bake them together to get something unique in return.
Or do you want them to keep adding new spells without taking old ones? Just how many fingers have you got? Would suck to have 20 rotational spells!

So here's the thing. Phoenix Flames was introduced in Legion with changes to Combustion and Fire Blast. Moving forward, based on everything I've seen, the spec is getting no major changes in BfA, EXCEPT losing Phoenix Flames. The spec is designed around having two guaranteed critical strike spells to fish for proc and to guarantee damage during movement. It also takes a modicum of RNG out of the spec as it lets you force Hot Streak when you want it.

Now, given that you literally said you haven't even gotten to level 100 yet, I don't particularly understand your critique of rotation bloat. With PF, Fire presses all of four buttons (five if you have the Scorch belt, but that instance it just replaces Fireball so you're back to four). Take away PF and you're down to three. Now, I have a healthy ten whole fingers and a healthy option for 40+ keybinds within easy reach. Limiting yourself to three spells is just boring.

If Blizzard wanted to give the spec something unique, then great. As of right now, they're taking away a core function of the spec with no compensation. These are facts, not wishes. We lose a baseline ability or potentially a required talent. In either case, I'd rather we get all of our artifact abilities either baseline or baked into something baseline if the functionality doesn't match up with anything existing. It seems weird we get so much time spent into developing these artifacts and mastering them to somehow magically forget everything they've given after a certain point.

[Tokas]

So here's the thing. Phoenix Flames was introduced in Legion with changes to Combustion and Fire Blast. Moving forward, based on everything I've seen, the spec is getting no major changes in BfA, EXCEPT losing Phoenix Flames. The spec is designed around having two guaranteed critical strike spells to fish for proc and to guarantee damage during movement. It also takes a modicum of RNG out of the spec as it lets you force Hot Streak when you want it.

Now, given that you literally said you haven't even gotten to level 100 yet, I don't particularly understand your critique of rotation bloat. With PF, Fire presses all of four buttons (five if you have the Scorch belt, but that instance it just replaces Fireball so you're back to four). Take away PF and you're down to three. Now, I have a healthy ten whole fingers and a healthy option for 40+ keybinds within easy reach. Limiting yourself to three spells is just boring.

If Blizzard wanted to give the spec something unique, then great. As of right now, they're taking away a core function of the spec with no compensation. These are facts, not wishes. We lose a baseline ability or potentially a required talent. In either case, I'd rather we get all of our artifact abilities either baseline or baked into something baseline if the functionality doesn't match up with anything existing. It seems weird we get so much time spent into developing these artifacts and mastering them to somehow magically forget everything they've given after a certain point.

True but I doubt this is it - I'm guessing we're last in line for changes BfA, that's it.

[Deleted]

They gonna keep the ability afterwards, it's not going away.

Phoenix Flames without Phoenix Reborn is going to be a mess - 2min15s for all charges to recharge is ridiculous especially on cleave or AoE it will be felt a lot.

[Shullski]

You seem to miss the point here, nobody is gathering here with burning torches to lose as many spells as possible.
But in this case those two are very similar, might as well bake them together to get something unique in return.
Or do you want them to keep adding new spells without taking old ones? Just how many fingers have you got? Would suck to have 20 rotational spells!

What, you just went from 4 to 20 lol. I'm a bit disturbed by the fact that having to use more than 3 or 4 abilities is too hard for people. It's this kinda mindset that scares Blizzard from adding depth back to classes.

[Erolian]

You seem to miss the point here, nobody is gathering here with burning torches to lose as many spells as possible.
But in this case those two are very similar, might as well bake them together to get something unique in return.
Or do you want them to keep adding new spells without taking old ones? Just how many fingers have you got? Would suck to have 20 rotational spells!

Lol we're not talking about 20 anyways. Fire as it is right now has a lot of room for expansion. No reason to come out with less next expansion. Some fabled land where we have too many abilities only happens if they continue adding every expansion where right now they're going backwards for no real reason. Cross bridges when you come to them rather than leaving the specs in a situation where they're always barren because "what if 15 expansions from now we have too many abilities?!"

[Nyoken]

Phoenix Flames without Phoenix Reborn is going to be a mess - 2min15s for all charges to recharge is ridiculous especially on cleave or AoE it will be felt a lot.

Oh that sucks D: Wonder if it's still gonna be a good ability then with that long of a recharge timer.

[Deleted]

Oh that sucks D: Wonder if it's still gonna be a good ability then with that long of a recharge timer.

If they're not going to add it I feel it's going be to be very lackluster and hardly competitive since they put it on the same tier as flame on. I mean you can't even guarantee having all three charges ready to go for your combustions without even running kindling and the you wouldn't be able to ever use it outside of combustion which would suck as well.

As it stands right now it looks more like a talent you'd use in pvp to burst people. Or maaybe on cleave/aoe but even then alextraszas fury provides a lot more hot streaks. Don't know looks really sad right now. I'd rather have them remove it than keep it in this crappy state.