[TV Netflix] Altered Carbon

[Endus]

Ortega never pretends she is not thoroughly corrupted. Like every cop they do what is best for their personal outcome, she is no different and does not really pretend otherwise. She just gets upset when other people’s corruption gets in her way.

Yeah, I think people missed that Ortega really isn't the "good cop". Like, at all. She might be more "willing to break the rules to get the bad guy" than "taking bribes to look the other way" corrupt, but she's not by-the-book.

[XDurionX]

Yeah, I think people missed that Ortega really isn't the "good cop". Like, at all. She might be more "willing to break the rules to get the bad guy" than "taking bribes to look the other way" corrupt, but she's not by-the-book.

Being corrupt is one thing, not putting the slightest effort in pretending you're doing your job at all is another. Such behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in any police station, future or not. It's just not believable.

Riker is framed for murder, Kovacs kills everyone randomly at Wei Clinic, blows up the place, and nobody ever bothers even asking him about what happened? The two main characters can do whatever they want without anything having consequences, ever.

[Sorshen]

Tanaka is the "taking bribes to look the other way", he's sending her on wild goose chase and PR missions cause he knows she won't do shit unless it's personal for her. It just looks like her job is just an excuse to pursue w/e thing is bothering her.

[Wyattbw09]

In spite of how the show ended, I think they make it clear that going after metas is a waste of time and possibly your life. So cops do law enforcement in places where it matters.

[Kathandira]

One other thing, was it ever stated if an un-sleeved person has any awareness? Or are you essentially dead until resleeved?

The main character was un-sleeved for several hundred years. When he was re-sleeved, he asked how long he was out for.

I believe this means your consciousness is put on pause until you either get spun up in a virtual world, or get re-sleeved.

[Wyattbw09]

The main character was un-sleeved for several hundred years. When he was re-sleeved, he asked how long he was out for.

I believe this means your consciousness is put on pause until you either get spun up in a virtual world, or get re-sleeved.

It’s not entirely clear, at the start of the show the little girl put into the old woman’s body expressed fear of going back into the black when they offered to put her back on ice until a younger body was available.

[Svifnymr]

It's not just re-sleeving, it takes a particular mentality to want to keep going after a couple lifetimes, most people are just "okay, I'm done, it's time" at some point. Also, meths can afford the backups and such which make stack-death a non-factor, too.

Cloning was expensive, and being in foreign sleeves had drawbacks over time, so you'd have to keep finding people to give up their own bodies so you could hop into them. If you meet a sudden death, like the little girl, your insurance may pay for a resleeve getting the first available.

Since the only open sleeves would probably be prisoners or something, it doesn't seem very efficient for a normal person to resleeve for a younger body. When Riker was sentenced, Ortega had to pay maintenance on his sleeve so they didn't reuse it.

It would make a neat plot for a sleeve-thief, but meh. It also highlights the oddities of DNA links for banking and no apparent method for verifying the actual person inside.

Think of it like vaccines, and the Neo-Catholics are anti-vaxxers. Their kids get the stack at birth, and they don't get a say. What they choose to DO with it, later, is up to them. Also, is that a little dystopian? Forcing someone to get their kid stacked against their will? That's sort of the point here.

But again, if the government is forking over the cost for everyone, then the plague folks make no sense. Either resleeve them, or move them. Technology wise it seems odd to have them that close to civilization and not fix them or eliminate them.

You're essentially dead. Stacks don't support mental activity; they're a backup drive, the mind isn't "running" on it. Think of them as super-complex solid-state drives. You might be able to reboot your system in a new PC (getting a new sleeve), but your computer isn't running on the disconnected and powerless drive.

The stack is the hard drive in the body, I think, so you'd be downloaded into some sort of central cloud storage. The prison thing makes no sense to me since you're not aware while you're on ice. They should put you into a VR simulation of a cell so you serve your sentence.

[Endus]

But again, if the government is forking over the cost for everyone, then the plague folks make no sense. Either resleeve them, or move them. Technology wise it seems odd to have them that close to civilization and not fix them or eliminate them.

The government is forking over the cost for stacks.

Not sleeves.

And they're largely doing so because of the control they gain over the population. It's a recurring theme (possibly more clear in the sequels).

The stack is the hard drive in the body, I think, so you'd be downloaded into some sort of central cloud storage. The prison thing makes no sense to me since you're not aware while you're on ice. They should put you into a VR simulation of a cell so you serve your sentence.

What you're missing is that this isn't about punishment, or rehabilitation. It's about kicking the problem downstream and not dealing with it.

It isn't meant to be a strong, functional society. It's a dystopia.

[Wyattbw09]

It’s not about getting tired of being alive. Most people can only have getting sleeved three or four times. After that your stack starts breaking down for grafting to different bodies and you go crazy. Only Meths that can clone their original DNA can effectively live forever.

[Svifnymr]

The government is forking over the cost for stacks.

Not sleeves.

And they're largely doing so because of the control they gain over the population. It's a recurring theme (possibly more clear in the sequels).

Then why keep the lepers there? It costs money to keep them under guard, feed them. Why not just ship them off to a leper colony or at least sterilize them? Assuming you don't just flat out murder them, obviously.

So, do the lepers have Stacks?

What you're missing is that this isn't about punishment, or rehabilitation. It's about kicking the problem downstream and not dealing with it.

It isn't meant to be a strong, functional society. It's a dystopia.

Kicking the problem downstream only matters if it's 250 years or whatever. Most folks desleeved and imprisoned will be less than that. The main point in desleeving them is to jack their sleeves, so when released they get random old people instead of young in shape criminal for a sleeve. But, technically speaking, the person went under and then woke up 10 years later or whatever, they'd still be as pissed (if not more) as when they went under.

Now if they kept them in VR, heck have them do virtual paperwork for the duration of their sentence, at least it would also be prison-like.

[Endus]

Then why keep the lepers there? It costs money to keep them under guard, feed them. Why not just ship them off to a leper colony or at least sterilize them? Assuming you don't just flat out murder them, obviously.

So, do the lepers have Stacks?

Yes, they'd have stacks. They keep them there because it's way cheaper than other solutions. Because who gives a shit if the plague spreads and some peons die? Fuck 'em.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but this is a dystopia. "But that's wrong/bad/horrible" is sort of the point.

Kicking the problem downstream only matters if it's 250 years or whatever. Most folks desleeved and imprisoned will be less than that. The main point in desleeving them is to jack their sleeves, so when released they get random old people instead of young in shape criminal for a sleeve. But, technically speaking, the person went under and then woke up 10 years later or whatever, they'd still be as pissed (if not more) as when they went under.

And quite possibly re-sleeved in a 90-year old woman's sleeve or something. And all their contacts and knowledge are 10 years out of date. They might still be angry, but so what? What're they gonna do?

Again, it isn't meant to fix anything, because the meths don't care, and nobody else gets any say.

[Svifnymr]

Yes, they'd have stacks. They keep them there because it's way cheaper than other solutions. Because who gives a shit if the plague spreads and some peons die? Fuck 'em.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but this is a dystopia. "But that's wrong/bad/horrible" is sort of the point.

Why would they have stacks? No one can use their sleeve, and they lack resources to resleeve. I don't know the cost of a Stack, but it's less than the cost of a bullet. Really, if they're not going to make them into living weapons, it seems pointless to waste resources on guarding and feeding them.

[Deleted]

The story was epic but the acting was beyond horrible from pretty much the whole cast except Poe.
It was hard to decide if it was a parody on bad acting.

I did enjoy how they wrapped up the ending and gave it closure. That and the story itself made it worth watching.

Hopefully with "sleeves" they can just replace actors as they want, game of thrones style

[eschatological]

Why would they have stacks? No one can use their sleeve, and they lack resources to resleeve. I don't know the cost of a Stack, but it's less than the cost of a bullet. Really, if they're not going to make them into living weapons, it seems pointless to waste resources on guarding and feeding them.

Dystopias don't recognize that they're dystopias. The Stack procedure is probably seen by the powers-that-be to be a great and benevolent thing, and thus they still feel some human emotion to the plague bearers. The whole point of the dystopia is that the sentimentality of it doesn't comport with the actual reality of it. If they were sinister bad guys, then yes, they'd just kill the plagued people. But the point is, they think they're good guys.

[Ivanstone]

Why would they have stacks? No one can use their sleeve, and they lack resources to resleeve. I don't know the cost of a Stack, but it's less than the cost of a bullet. Really, if they're not going to make them into living weapons, it seems pointless to waste resources on guarding and feeding them.

Everyone has a stack. Its partially a control thing but its something that's just in grained in society because its possibly more useful to have people with them.

People have always taken care of the sick and needy. Walling them off is probably a waste of resources but even the rich and decadent meths usually stop of short of murder. They're assholes but not nazis. So they let them live and maybe someone else will fix the problem.

[Nathanyel]

Yeah, I think people missed that Ortega really isn't the "good cop". Like, at all. She might be more "willing to break the rules to get the bad guy" than "taking bribes to look the other way" corrupt, but she's not by-the-book.

In the 80s (of Hollywood) that was the "good cop", the one that didn't play by the rules but got shit done and cases resolved (usually by killing bad guys) while the other officers were either bumbling bureaucrats or in the [insert crime syndicate]'s pocket.

It’s not entirely clear, at the start of the show the little girl put into the old woman’s body expressed fear of going back into the black when they offered to put her back on ice until a younger body was available.

There is probably some sort of awareness of your stack changing sleeves, but without other sensation ("the dark") which would of course be terrifying for a young child who experiences this for the first time, not to mention the surrounding experiences, the alienation of a new, grown-up body (see the "orientation" by the holo lady) and especially if she witnessed more than a few moments of the hit&run that killed her.

[Svifnymr]

Everyone has a stack. Its partially a control thing but its something that's just in grained in society because its possibly more useful to have people with them.

Not sure, they never referenced the lepers actually having stacks. Maybe they did and it's just not important to reference, but they also seem to have no real influence in the camp. I'm not sure what age they Stack folks at, but leading teams into the camp to secure the children that they can never use seems unlikely to be followed up on.

People have always taken care of the sick and needy. Walling them off is probably a waste of resources but even the rich and decadent meths usually stop of short of murder. They're assholes but not nazis. So they let them live and maybe someone else will fix the problem.

Yes, but why take care of them THERE. Why not a leper colony somewhere off grid. There's a fence and some (totally not hazmat clad) guards keeping these people from wiping out the city.

Don't get me wrong, it's obviously just a plot device to use to demonstrate another side to the guy, same way coding a stack to no resus is useful to the story over people opting out of an implant at all. "It's a dystopia" isn't really an answer that's useful to discuss, I was curious if the books or other media had mentioned answers.

[XDurionX]

Really disappointed about how the story unfolded. There is some cringeworthy writing at play, the story turns to shit once Rei reenters the scene. Terrible villain. Plus the whole Lizzie subplot is laughable as well. I really expected some more mature, "serious" science fiction, but it's just the regular popcorn-action-in-the-future-crap.

Wasted chance. It's not bad, but it's not good either.

[BloodyAngel12]

This pretty cool news.
http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/96...mackie-as-lead

[Skizzit]

This pretty cool news.
http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/96...mackie-as-lead

Pretty cool. I couldn't get into the second book at all though. The sudden jump from cyberpunk detective story to a futuristic military story just didn't interest me. I keep meaning to give it another shot now that I know more what to expect. I am down for a second season for sure however.