Chronicle Volume III Amazon Preview

[Shampro]

Makes me hopeful they'll have interaction in BfA. Anduin completely ignoring the fact Baine saved thousands of Alliance lives would be stupid as shit.

There's strings of the Alliance attacking the Great Gate to Mulgore for a Barrens Warfront. So GG to that, maybe it'll help to give Baine some goddamn character.

And it came raging back and was even worse with the purge and BfA seems to be littered with such events.

This expansion is going to be a nightmare. It's not even out and I want it to be over.

[Aucald]

And since Cairne and Hamuul aren't omniscient players, they don't. And the part in the bold is just wat. Not only is that irrelevant to the topic of Hamuul and Cairne not having any tangible evidence, but if the claim that Cairne didn't jump on conclusions rests on Gorkrak lying he doesn't know who Garrosh is, it being proven he lied, i.e. knows who Garrosh is doesn't put Garrosh in the clear at all.

No, I mean that if Gorkrak didn't obviously tie himself to Garrosh in Hamuul's eyes then the whole set-up likely wouldn't have worked - the entire goal of Gorkrak's flippant "Who's Garrosh" troll was to allow Hamuul make the connection for himself based on a false impression. You're conflating an actual conclusion with a jump to a conclusion - you don't need a strict evidentiary proceeding like in a court of law to come to a conclusion after all, and Hamuul and Cairne thought they had all they needed to make said conclusion (again, part of the goal of the Twilight's Hammer).

He could beat Hamuul with an actual Troll's corpse while saying it. That still wouldn't make Hamuul's claim that he lied anything more than conjecture. And even if you ignored this, there's still a great canyon between it being accepted that Gorkrak does now who Garrosh is and him committing the act on Garrosh's order.

There would be no other reason for Gorkrak to be there - they very obviously were there to attack the conclave, this wasn't a happenstance encounter with a hostile band of Orcs. Not to mention Gorkrak says to the attackers not to harm Hamuul because he's a Tauren, further cementing the (intentionally false) idea that Gorkrak and his peers were Horde partisans explicitly targeting the Night Elves as opposed to the Horde representative present. Plus, Hamuul knew that Gorkrak was lying - and Gorkrak *was* lying, Hamuul just wasn't aware of why he was lying (and mistakenly applied to deniability of Garrosh's involvement as opposed to the Twilight's Hammer interfering as a third party).

Except this movement isn't movement from point A to point B. It's movement from point A to point G, where all intermediary steps are, once again, missing. Gorkrak lying about not knowing Garrosh, no matter the manner in which he said the lie and no matter how believable the lie was or not, does not constitute proof that Garrosh did it. Garrosh denying he didn't do it does not constitute proof that Garrosh did it. There was no other "evidence" Cairne used. Ergo, he reached the conclusion without proof. Now, if only there was a term to describe that...

"Proof", in the form of incontestable evidence, isn't required to reach a rational conclusion - and since there was zero "proof" possible one way or the other, it's kind of immaterial. Let's assume Gorkrak actually was there on Garrosh's behalf and attacked the Druids on Garrosh's order - Hamuul still couldn't incontrovertibly know Gorkrak's agenda despite what his eyes, senses, and intuition are telling him with Gorkrak denying he knew Garrosh even was. In the absence of physical evidence or admission of the agenda you have only circumstantial evidence and reasoned deduction to make your conclusions with - and that's exactly what Cairne and Hamuul did. They were wrong because they weren't privy to the full picture, but most anyone else in their position would've likely came to the same conclusion.

[Syegfryed]

On the other hand, it also makes me realize Blizzard can do similar retcons to Alliance characters, which is worrying.

the only retcons on the alliance is to make then look good and cool

i bet they can say in chronicles that camp taurujo had like 5000 vicious horde soldiers and the alliance attack then because was needed, and the "civilians" died only because the soldiers sued then as shield

[Combatbutler]

This expansion is going to be a nightmare. It's not even out and I want it to be over.

I was called horde and alliance fanboy in a single thread once during mists, boy this xpack will sure be fun. (T^T)

[Qualia]

the only retcons on the alliance is to make then look good and cool

Well, Horde fans need to make up their minds on what they want to play as, then. I think I've seen plenty of posters both here and official forums who loved playing Horde because of their more "antagonistic" image, while telling people that if they want to play the good side, go Alliance instead. Blizzard is just fulfilling those players' interests

[GreenJesus]

I know so many people Are gonna be upset with so many retconz but I love LOVE that were geting the fully story explained and canonized this seems to be every thing I’ve ever wanted out of the Warcraft story.

Except now quest text is retconned... and playing through cata is now non-canon.

[Shampro]

I was called horde and alliance fanboy in a single thread once during mists, boy this xpack will sure be fun. (T^T)

Sad thing is I like the faction-related stories. But I fucking detest how godawful people the forums/reddit get during it, everyone has Biases, but it reaches unbearable levels a lot of the time.

[Syegfryed]

Well, Horde fans need to make up their minds on what they want to play as, then. I think I've seen plenty of posters both here and official forums who loved playing Horde because of their more "antagonistic" image, while telling people that if they want to play the good side, go Alliance instead. Blizzard is just fulfilling those players' interests

i would rather have my war3 horde image back tvm

[Combatbutler]

i would rather have my war3 horde image back tvm

Even that was kinda tainted with Grom constantly looking for a fight though and Thrall face-palming the entire time.

[Shampro]

Even that was kinda tainted with Grom constantly looking for a fight though and Thrall face-palming the entire time.

But it also acknowledged and had Alliance characters who were fine to get thier hands dirty Ala, Garithos and Daelin. In WoW it gets brushed under the rug. No one is going to mention the Cloud-covered attack from Genn to the Forsaken in Legion for example. It wasn't just a one faction thing back then, atleast it when it came to ''front and center'' characters and acknowledgment.

[Ningjinq]

Well, Horde fans need to make up their minds on what they want to play as, then. I think I've seen plenty of posters both here and official forums who loved playing Horde because of their more "antagonistic" image, while telling people that if they want to play the good side, go Alliance instead. Blizzard is just fulfilling those players' interests

I’d rather them take the Horde to be like the Death Knight Order Hall campaign. I think it’d fit a larger range of people’s ideas of the Horde. Doing some pretty evil stuff but for a good.

Also, the Horde is so good now that they are boring. Too many plots ignored to keep them nice and shiny.

[Syegfryed]

Even that was kinda tainted with Grom constantly looking for a fight though and Thrall face-palming the entire time.

that was one of the things who make the horde cool, both factions with their minor "bad apples" doing facepalm things, not the whole horde borderline evil, and the whole alliance lawful good .

Horde had grom, Alliance had proudmore, im fine with that.

[Ningjinq]

But it also acknowledged and had Alliance characters who were fine to get thier hands dirty Ala, Garithos and Daelin. In WoW it gets brushed under the rug. No one is going to mention the Cloud-covered attack from Genn to the Forsaken in Legion for example. It wasn't just a one faction thing back then, atleast it when it came to ''front and center'' characters and acknowledgment.

Don’t forget the Kul Tirans being notorious slavers either.

[Clone]

If Christie Golden is helping write them, her two favorite chars are Anduin and Baine.

Yeah... I'm not counting on that.

[ls-]

On the other hand, it also makes me realize Blizzard can do similar retcons to Alliance characters, which is worrying.

Luckily for you, they won't The Alliance as a whole is destined to prevail and to be the good guys, someone will def go rogue, but that's kinda irrelevant >_>

[Deleted]

Uh, why some are calling Sylvanas wanting to invade Gilneas a retcon? We know that since the Curse of the Worgen comics, Alpha Prime was allied with the Forsaken.

[Combatbutler]

Luckily for you, they won't The Alliance as a whole is destined to prevail and to be the good guys, someone will def go rogue, but that's kinda irrelevant >_>

Well they did cement Gilneas as the most selfish Kingdom right after Alterrac. Unfortunately that touch was lost when they rejoined.

[Volardelis]

5) It says Arthas and his soldiers landed in Howling Fjord, but it was Dragonblight during WotLK. Retcon? Mistake? Dunno.

neither, Arthas did land in Howling Fjord. The base we see in Dragonblight was the one that was featured in the mission where you burn down the ships. Which is a completely new base from the one you built in the mission prior.

[Stormspellz]

Something fun I noticed:



The book only goes to page 223.

med'an "not found error" lol

[Volardelis]

Does that prove he's retconned?

Or does that prove he's still canon?

Discuss.

Blizzard has said in the past that if something doesn't show up in the Chronicles series, it doesn't mean it is no longer canon. Rhonin and co going back in time is still canon (as see them in the Illidan flashback quests in Legion) even though there is no mention of them in Vol 1.