WoW token done right

[chazus]

In both these cases no gold has magically been created on the server, it has been farmed by someone. Can this ruin the economy, if so how?

A few ways.

First, keep in mind nobody 'farms gold'. They farm things for gold. And if they're getting paid to do it (as in, a job), they'll do it a lot, and if all they're doing is just farming day in, day out... not raiding, not questing, not going offline, not doing anything but farming, it tanks the prices of things they're farming so that people who just play the game (or people who farm perhaps one day a week to pay for raids or w/e) so those people make less gold.

Secondly, it makes it harder in general to farm some things, depending on what it is.

Ignoring all the various illegal stuff, like having accounts compromised, banned, not getting money/gold, etc.

[Schattenlied]

they need it for something.

No, they want it for something, and they have decided they aren't willing to spend the time farming that gold for the something they want, so they spend money on it instead. Many of those people won't go out of their way to farm all that gold, they will just deal with not having that mount or whatever it was they wanted to buy.

Therefore, gold was added, may not have been in your case, but it was in a lot of others.

[Chaelexi]

First, it was a handful of folks on these boards asking for lesser QoL changes. Then, there was the entire "class balance" squad. Shortly ago, there was a 10 pages thread about someone calling for LFR; and now, a not-so-subtle call for tokens in Classic.

Man, some people do want to see Classic crash and burn...

Please explain how a wow token would cause it to crash and burn? Or are you just rolling chicken little style......the Classic is crashing!!! the classic is burning!!!...... Even in classic there was a demand for a legal way to buy and sell gold. If anything this would help your case that to keep classic running as it is bringing in more money for blizzard...... SO maybe this will be the classic is surviving!!! the Classic is thriving!!!!

[Soon-TM]

Please explain how a wow token would cause it to crash and burn? Or are you just rolling chicken little style......the Classic is crashing!!! the classic is burning!!!...... Even in classic there was a demand for a legal way to buy and sell gold. If anything this would help your case that to keep classic running as it is bringing in more money for blizzard...... SO maybe this will be the classic is surviving!!! the Classic is thriving!!!!

Even in Classic there were some who demanded for class homogeneization. That doesn't make it desirable.

As for the game crashing and burning, imagine what would happen to a Classic with LFR, "class balance", tokens, multiple difficulties (yes, there was someone who made another huge thread about it). It would be a Legion capped at level 60, nothing else.

[FelPlague]

Except that'd turn WoW into a much bigger gold farming business than it already is. People are less prone to buy from gold sellers because it'll get you banned. If gold sellers suddenly can do it with no risk, the business will boom. Do you want to see 10 times as many chinese farmers in WoW, unbanned because they're not doing anything against the rules?

actually they wont Embriel, becuase there is no way for them to turn that gold into real life money, they can turn it into Bnet currency, but then they cant transfer that to real life money.'
so no, wowtokens would shut down the illegal gold market, not make chinese farmers even higher.

[hulkgor]

It's not like people buy or farm gold just for the fun of it, they need it for something.

That's actually incorrect.

Lots of people just collect gold for the sake of well, collecting gold. Amassing millions upon millions just to have it, reaching the gold caps. There are also numerous guides, videos and subreddits about it. We goblins care about having gold, sorry to disappoint you.

Also, i sure as fuck hope there's not a WoW token alternative on Classic, that would ruin the server entirely.

[Projectmars]

How about just no WoW Tokens allowed on Classic period, hm?

[FelPlague]

Please explain how it will double prices? The toekn has not raised prices on anything. The availability of new gold has raised prices in Retail. The token has just provided an efficient method of redistribution and removed many of the botting farmers that were in the real world that just caused issues.

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The economy is not affected by the fact there is a wow token. In vanilla there is many gold sinks, ah costs, repairs, reagents(candles, seals, portal ruins) and then mounts that directly remove money from the market. And there is a limited way to produce gold: selling greys, quests, treasures and mob kills. There are no dailies, few repeatable quests and mobs do not drop a lot of gold(except raid bosses that have lockouts). This will limit the availability of gold capital in the market. A token does not create capital it only moves it between players. So I ask you once again to please explain how this will ruin the economy. And the response of it was not in vanilla therefore it should not be in Classic is not a valid answer.

As for your other point. You could buy gold in Vanilla.....if you think otherwise you are naive or ignorant. It was through gold farmers that were against terms and services, ruined the experience of many players because they destroyed the herb/ore spawns in areas through bots. But hey the token effectively killed this type of farming and gold selling and it is a bad thing now....

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It will end up starting at a lower gold amount, it will likely start around 100g for a token and creep up as there is more gold available in the market. Just like in live when tokens wer 4-5k each and now upwards of 200k

yeah i remember when they were 30k in wod.. i was able to make about 30k every other day using the garrison on all my toons and banm.
im not 1.2 million and gunna have to start paying for my subs again in a few months.

[chazus]

That's actually incorrect.

Lots of people just collect gold for the sake of well, collecting gold. Amassing millions upon millions just to have it, reaching the gold caps. There are also numerous guides, videos and subreddits about it. We goblins care about having gold, sorry to disappoint you.

Yup.

I collected gold when I found an easy source just because. It was 'so I could have it'.

It was so later, I could randomly buy my girl a million gold mount or whatever and not have to think about it.

[FelPlague]

You guys still think Classic is happening? Blizz has been awfully quiet about it.

Their original answer was spot on - "You think you do, but you don't."

uhhh it is...
they have said it is.
and they have spoken about it if you knew how to use google.
the only reason they are being "awfully quiet" on it, is that they have literally JUST STARTED.
it wont be out till late 2019, most likely with the 15th wow aniversary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXzZsnZ2tZw&t=324s

[Planetdune]

• Gold farmer on your server farms 1000g
• You pay gold farmer 15 dollars for that gold
• You may or may not actually get the gold

• Random guy on your server farms 1000g
• You buy a WoW token for 15 dollars
• You trade the random guy the WoW token in exchange for the gold
• You will 100% get the gold

I added one very important missing point in your lists.

I added one very important missing point in your lists.[

[Chaelexi]

Even in Classic there were some who demanded for class homogeneization. That doesn't make it desirable.

As for the game crashing and burning, imagine what would happen to a Classic with LFR, "class balance", tokens, multiple difficulties (yes, there was someone who made another huge thread about it). It would be a Legion capped at level 60, nothing else.

You are going to get requests for all the changes, some will be trolls but others are well thought out and make sense. This one makes sense, it deals with the issues of gold farmers, provides a safe method of buying gold at market determined price without adding any to the market place and lowers the risk of account theft. If you can not see there will be changes from Vanilla you will only be disappointed.

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How about just no WoW Tokens allowed on Classic period, hm?

Thank you for providing such an insightful and well thought out opinion. I would like to subscribe to your magazine...........How about instead of posting what has been posted a couple times already, provide a well thought out argument on why it should not be included. Because the it was not in vanilla argument holds no weight. Because things like item dupping and LOS glitching were part of vanilla, should they still be part of Classic?

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That's actually incorrect.

Lots of people just collect gold for the sake of well, collecting gold. Amassing millions upon millions just to have it, reaching the gold caps. There are also numerous guides, videos and subreddits about it. We goblins care about having gold, sorry to disappoint you.

Also, i sure as fuck hope there's not a WoW token alternative on Classic, that would ruin the server entirely.

Everyone says it will ruin it but never actually provide an explanation that holds water......... they are a bunch of arguments full of holes.....or worse the classic one. It was not in Vanilla so it should not be in Classic.......

[zyx]

To be honest, I bought gold a lot of times over the years and always received what I paid...

With a sample size small enough, you can easily get a 100% perfection rating.

[Projectmars]

Thank you for providing such an insightful and well thought out opinion. I would like to subscribe to your magazine...........How about instead of posting what has been posted a couple times already, provide a well thought out argument on why it should not be included. Because the it was not in vanilla argument holds no weight. Because things like item dupping and LOS glitching were part of vanilla, should they still be part of Classic?

Nice strawman, although they have gone on record stating that obvious exploits such as these will be patched... and it's one of two or three kinds of changes that has universal agreement on and has the least amount of complaints and grumblings compared to others.

Meanwhile, no. The "It wasn't in Vanilla" aspect is still pretty valid. It wasn't a service that Blizzard offered at the time, so just like Faction and Race Changes it should not be allowed. The intent is to make it as close to how it was back then as possible, so it would definitely change that dynamic if they were allowed.

Besides, if the intent is to draw back paying customers and get a larger cash flow from WoW, then why give a population that has demonstrated a desire to pay to play the game the option to play it for free? it would be good business sense to keep the Token out of classic for that reason as well.

[schwarzkopf]

Please explain how this will raise prices? There is no gold being added to the market with a token sale........

Because it shifts gold to those with lots of RL wealth, who can then pay obscene prices for items - meaning those items will get obscenely expensive.

[Cheze]

in an ideal (or totally different) environment, it might be just fine for players to sell gold to each other without going through the intermediary of the WoW token

in the actual world/game, it enabled all sorts of negative behavior: outright scams, incentive to compromise accounts (attack sites, ingame phishing, etc) and ingame bots. Good lord, the bots in vanilla. What blizzard have done with expac to expac inflation and now the WoW token is make it (mostly) economically nonviable for such actors to acquire gold for real-world profit.

personally I'd hope tokens are available on vanilla servers because 1) moving gold out of the hands of 'wealthier' players is a good thing (high velocity of money) and 2) because it helps keep away botters/phishers/etc

[Deleted]

Gold Farmers tend to use illegal/ToS-violating and player-detrimental methods to attain the gold. The point of tokens isn't to prevent the gold selling(which is likely impossible), but to prevent the issues arising from the Gold Farmers and provide a safe avenue to do it.

That's what blizzard tells you, however, in reality, the majority of them do not get the gold through hacking as it gets traced anyway, and they don't wanna be buying new twink accounts on a daily basis. The majority of the gold and I'm talking about a seller that sells around 60 million gold per reset, gets it through people selling it directly to them, and I can mention another 10 sellers doing the exact same thing.

The only reason why blizzard says that is to prey on your guilty consciousness to hopefully deter you from buying gold that way.

[Deleted]

That's what blizzard tells you, however, in reality, the majority of them do not get the gold through hacking as it gets traced anyway, and they don't wanna be buying new twink accounts on a daily basis. The majority of the gold and I'm talking about a seller that sells around 60 million gold per reset, gets it through people selling it directly to them, and I can mention another 10 sellers doing the exact same thing.

The only reason why blizzard says that is to prey on your guilty consciousness to hopefully deter you from buying gold that way.

This all the way. Right on the money.

[Cheze]

you don't see (as much) gold acquired via nefarious means being sold because 1) blizzard have gotten better at detecting the transactions and 2) because the game gives much more to the average player than it once did. There's little need for many players to buy gold when the game throws hundreds of thousands a month at you just for playing and most expenses are a fraction of that. If you revert back to a vanilla environment where day-to-day expenses (enchants, repairs etc) are less affordable I don't think it's a given that stuff wouldn't return.

People making large amounts of gold ingame and then selling it directly to known/vouchsafed buyers is a relatively new thing and probably wouldn't exist in classic, at least for a while.

[Chaelexi]

Because it shifts gold to those with lots of RL wealth, who can then pay obscene prices for items - meaning those items will get obscenely expensive.

Where is this gold coming from......purchasing gold was available in Vanilla through farmers and that was with the influx of gold from gold farmers selling gold.....which adds more gold to the economy then a wow token.......which pro-tip ADDS NO GOLD. SO please explain where this gold is coming from?