Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[szechuan]

Gun violence and drugs go hand in hand. WTF are you talking about? This is why the Gun control crowd continually loses , Because they want to ultimately make us into another country.

False Equivalences yet again.

[Dystemper]

I think you have a point there, but maybe not the point you think or want.

I would say like others have said, trying not to be condescending, if you do not feel safe in a civilized, first world country, to point you need to carry gun, or need an AR-15 for home protection, there is something very wrong with that society.

Rather than continuing the arm race, how about taking step towards a better, safer society. See, i can go out to the movie, to dancing or drinking, walk in the street at 2 AM, I do not feel unsafe. Things can happen, i don't deny, crime does exist but it's fairly uncommon.

30 years in France, never a problem, 6 years in LA, i was mugged twice.

Again, i say that with no intention of feeling morally superior or anything, i'm just saying, there is a better way to make a better society rather than lock and load everyone.

How is all that Immigrant violence and sky rocketing rapes working for Europeans? Its funny you mention L.A, A liberal controlled city with some of the strictest gun control laws and gun bans in the nation. The fact that 4 major cities in the USA all with very strict gun Control laws make up the vast majority of gun violence in the USA , all of the Democrat controlled , should tell you something

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False Equivalences yet again.

Sure sure. Keep telling your self that

[szechuan]

How is all that Immigrant violence and sky rocketing rapes working for Europeans? Its funny you mention L.A, A liberal controlled city with some of the strictest gun control laws and gun bans in the nation. The fact that 4 major cities in the USA all with very strict gun Control laws make up the vast majority of gun violence in the USA , all of the Democrat controlled , should tell you something

So nothing but Shift Blaming.

[Dystemper]

So nothing but Shift Blaming.

Like they way you blame Guns , the NRA and gun owners for the actions of the criminal? Like blaming the car for drunk drivers.

[szechuan]

Sure sure. Keep telling your self that

Keep telling myself that Drugs and Gun Violence are not the same thing?

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Like they way you blame Guns , the NRA and gun owners for the actions of the criminal? Like blaming the car for drunk drivers.

So Gun Violence is not about Guns?

[Vankrys]

How is all that Immigrant violence and sky rocketing rapes working for Europeans?

Don't see it honestly. I mean, like i said, crime does exist everywhere, but i can't relate to the reports of "no go" zone or massive crime wave i hear. I heard they're mainly from Sweden, Germany or Netherlands, but i also heard they are greatly exaggerated.

I don't live in a megacity also, so there's that. To me, it seems all those reports of crimes and violence in Europe are just fear mongering (well maybe not in Ukraine, but you know, civil war, Russian invasion, the whole thing is pretty violent) to fit right wing agenda.

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Like they way you blame Guns , the NRA and gun owners for the actions of the criminal? Like blaming the car for drunk drivers.

I don't think anyone blame the cars for drunk drivers. The seemingly age old equivalency between cars and guns always baffled me. Their purpose are so different. The purpose of a car is transporting goods and people. The purpose of a gun is to inflict harm to the target.

Cars, trucks and buses are indispensable in current society, guns are only optional.

[Dystemper]

Don't see it honestly. I mean, like i said, crime does exist everywhere, but i can't relate to the reports of "no go" zone or massive crime wave. I heard they're mainly from Sweden, Germany or Netherlands, but i also heard they are greatly exaggerated.

I don't live in a megacity also, so there's that. To me, it seems all those reports of crimes and violence in Europe are just fear mongering (well maybe not in Ukraine, but you know, civil war, Russian invasion, the whole thing is pretty violent) to fit right wing agenda.

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I don't think anyone blame the cars for drunk driving. The seemingly age old equivalency between cars and guns always baffles me. Their purpose are so different. The purpose of a car is transporting goods and people. The purpose of a gun is to inflict harm to the target.

Cars, trucks and buses are indispensable in current society, guns are only optional.

The same way the Left wing over states violent crime here in the USA and has people like you believing this is a very violent country when actually our violent crie rate is very very low for a nation our size and with our Population numbers.

[Vankrys]

The same way the Left wing over states violent crime here in the USA and has people like you believing this is a very violent country when actually our violent crie rate is very very low for a nation our size and with our Population numbers.

outside the terrorist attacks of 2015, mass shooting, school shooting in particular, is an extremely rare sight here.

[Dystemper]

Don't see it honestly. I mean, like i said, crime does exist everywhere, but i can't relate to the reports of "no go" zone or massive crime wave i hear. I heard they're mainly from Sweden, Germany or Netherlands, but i also heard they are greatly exaggerated.

I don't live in a megacity also, so there's that. To me, it seems all those reports of crimes and violence in Europe are just fear mongering (well maybe not in Ukraine, but you know, civil war, Russian invasion, the whole thing is pretty violent) to fit right wing agenda.

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I don't think anyone blame the cars for drunk drivers. The seemingly age old equivalency between cars and guns always baffled me. Their purpose are so different. The purpose of a car is transporting goods and people. The purpose of a gun is to inflict harm to the target.

Cars, trucks and buses are indispensable in current society, guns are only optional.

And yet Cars and trucks and vans are being used as mass killing tools. And that is on the rise and becoming the weapon of choice for people wishing to just kill as many people as they can.

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outside the terrorist attacks of 2015, mass shooting, school shooting in particular, is an extremely rare sight here.

Same here. School shootings are pretty rare

[szechuan]

And yet Cars and trucks and vans are being used as mass killing tools. And that is on the rise and becoming the weapon of choice for people wishing to just kill as many people as they can.

Good thing there's a way to reduce Gun Violence then.

Same here. School shootings are pretty rare

In America they aren't.

[Gaaz]

The same way Making Drugs illegal stopped Drug over doses and drug dealing and use?

The fact that people are being prescribed a huge amount of drugs, often indistinguishable from those you get from your typical cartel, might have to do something with the issue. Having a bad day - here is some amphetamine. Problem sleeping - opioids fix that for you. Cut that out and a problem will be much less severe. Illegal drugs are not your biggest problem anymore. There is even evidence that people start going illegal because they get hooked up on legal ones first.

Prescription drug abuse causes the largest percentage of deaths from drug overdosing. Of the 22,400 drug overdose deaths in the US in 2005, opioid painkillers were the most commonly found drug, accounting for 38.2% of these deaths.
Depressants, opioids and antidepressants are responsible for more overdose deaths (45%) than cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and amphetamines (39%) combined.

The same way BAnning Alcohol stopped people from Drinking?

You know that it actually works? People indeed drink less if more control is imposed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712507/

Peoples words offend me, lets get rid of Free speech that way no one will say anyting that offends me right?

As been pointed out numerous times. we are not other countries. Stop comparing us to them. If yall put half as much energy on fixing the real root causes of these tragedies then maybe something would be done. Mental HEalth care, a society that glorifies death and violence. A society that celebrates murderers and internet heroes. The loss of traditional family values. Over medicating kids with psychotropic drugs that cause them to be violent. Parents being Friends instead of being the parent. A media thats only interested in making ratings and headlines instead of actually reporting facts. School systems that do nothing about excessive bullying of others to the point these kids want to kill them selves or others then they wring their hands and say " they slipped through the cracks". Actually enforcing the laws we have now.

"I am not other people, I do not know for sure that if I stop hitting my head with a hammer every now and then, my migraines will stop." Come on, use common logic. There are plenty of examples where this shit works. The whole idea of 2nd amendment is outdated by at least a century. It is too vague. It does not specify what arms you have the right to keep. If taken at face value, it actually permits civilians to own nukes. But for some reason, the US government regulates WMD and even things like automatic weaponry. Is a ban for a civilian to own a functioning machine gun or a tank opposes 2nd amendment? Absolutely! But that is common sense regulation! Another common sense regulation would be a ban to any weapon that allows rapid engagement of multiple targets. That includes AR-15 and the like. This can be done in multiple ways - magazine restrictions, weight and dimensions limitations, heavy taxes, bureaucratic barriers, things like allowing police to revoke licenses and confiscate guns from people who committed a violent or disorderly offence in public or regarding another person (including home violence, being drunk in public, etc...). This shit actually works.

[Vankrys]

And yet Cars and trucks and vans are being used as mass killing tools. And that is on the rise and becoming the weapon of choice for people wishing to just kill as many people as they can.

You are talking about terrorist attacks. It is not the same as domestic gun violence. Not the same cause and not the same actions needed for prevention.

[petej0]

I don't think anyone blame the cars for drunk drivers.

Thats the point!! Nobody blames the car for drunk drivers, or the spoon for fat people etc... They blame the individual, yet when it comes to firearm crimes, they blame the gun and not the idiot who did the crime.

[Macaquerie]

Like they way you blame Guns , the NRA and gun owners for the actions of the criminal? Like blaming the car for drunk drivers.

Well you know what they say, the only thing that can stop a bad guy driving drunk is a good guy driving drunk...

[szechuan]

Thats the point!! Nobody blames the car for drunk drivers, or the spoon for fat people etc... They blame the individual, yet when it comes to firearm crimes, they blame the gun and not the idiot who did the crime.

But people are blaming the idiot who did the crime too.

[Spazik]

It's about Gun Violence Reduction. Banning weapons has proven it works in other countries to reduce gun violence and and gun massacres.

Actually there is no evidence number of firearms in population has direct link to crime/murder rate. Somewhere it is even opposite correlation.

There are countries with a lot of legal weapons and very low crime/murder rate (Switzerland, Czech Republic...). And there are countries with full gun ban with high crime/murder rate (Latin America countries, Russia).

In United Kingdom, you can not carry even knife or pepper spray, after gun ban murder rate went up or remained +- unchanged in long term.
In France, there is also a full gun ban (civilians can not carry any gun), they had huge terrorist attacks in recent years (with a truck or illegal guns).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novemb..._Paris_attacks

In USA almost everybody had a full auto weapon couple decades ago, you could buy it everywhere including gas station or mail order it to your home. But there were no mass shootings... Guns are not the cause of the issue, some sick people and local social conditions are the cause fo the issue.

[szechuan]

Actually there is no evidence number of firearms in population has direct link to crime/murder rate. Somewhere it is even opposite correlation.

There are countries with a lot of legal weapons and very low crime/murder rate (Switzerland, Czech Republic...). And there are countries with full gun ban with high crime/murder rate (Latin America countries, Russia).

In United Kingdom, you can not carry even knife or pepper spray, after gun ban murder rate went up or remained +- unchanged in long term.
In France, there is also a full gun ban (civilians can not carry any gun), they had huge terrorist attacks in recent years (with a truck or illegal guns).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novemb..._Paris_attacks

Still saw no school mass shooting in UK and Australia after 20 years after Gun Bans.

In USA almost everybody had a full auto weapon couple decades ago, you could buy it everywhere including gas station or mail order it to your home. But there were no mass shootings... Guns are not the cause of the issue, some sick people and local social conditions are the cause fo the issue.

Are you suggesting that gun accessibility has nothing to do with Gun Violence?

You do realize that only recently do we have more guns in Circulation in the U.S.A. then U.S.A. Total Population.

[Vankrys]

Thats the point!! Nobody blames the car for drunk drivers, or the spoon for fat people etc... They blame the individual, yet when it comes to firearm crimes, they blame the gun and not the idiot who did the crime.

For 2 reasons.

Cars are necessary for a functional modern society, guns aren't.
Purpose of cars is not to harm or kill, purpose of gun is.

[petej0]

For 2 reasons.

Cars are necessary for a functional modern society, guns aren't.
Purpose of cars is not to harm or kill, purpose of gun is.

You can still blame the easy access to cars as the result of high DWI deaths.

[Ghostpanther]

never understood why you can get guns n stuff so easily in the states. maybe slightly biased as an european :P

Constitutional right. We have restrictions. But Constitutional rights should never be too hard to exercise.