Chinese official warns against creeping Islamisation

[ranzino]

Lets put it this way if the Muslims in China ever get to uppity then that same day there will no longer be any Muslims in China and as they now have a leader for life in Xi Jinping they will get away with it and there isn't a country on earth that can do or will do anything about it other then perhaps denounce the action.
Other then a few small incidents none of the big terrorist groups have made a single move against China because they damn well know that China will retaliate with everything and anything in their arsenal up to and including nuking Mecca or using bio or chem weapons on a general muslim populace.

they can do it by conventional means to the home of terrorists, no need to demolish Mecca. but yes, they would hunt chinese muslims to extinction, if needed.

[Deldavala]

It still is opression and destruction of a culture. There should be no doubt that China is the bad guy here, that is unless we are now in support of colonialism or America's 20th century foreign policy.

It was a tactical landgrab that ended more violently than it had to. China and Tibet has around 1500 years of history. In and out of wars, being part of the same empire, being a vassal state and now being an autonomus region. The PLA under Mao wanted to return landmass that had been lost from China and one of the regions was Tibet.

I am not saying it wasnt unjust and a bad thing. But the romanticization of Tibet is just a pet peeve for me.

[Endus]

And?

Why do so many of these discussions end up with "Yes, but Christians" "Yes, but the Jews" "Yes, but white men".. etc.

So annoying and inconstructive.

It's based on the nonsensical arguments we're opposing.

They say "Muslims are 'bad' because some do X, and thus we should oppose them."
When the same standard applies to other groups and you DON'T oppose them, you're a hypocrite who's lying about their motivations, which are prejudice and hatred. That's the point. If we apply the standards these people use, we'd have to "oppose" everyone. All men, because there are rapists. All Christians, because of pedophile protectionism by clergy. All atheists, because of Stalin's anti-theistic purges. This is why it's a ridiculous argument.

And that's why we hold up a mirror to it and show how ridiculous it is when you apply it to anything else. You find it "annoying and unconstructive"? Now you know how the rest of us feel about this nonsense hate speech regarding Muslims; it's exactly as annoying and unconstructive.

[delus]

China is communist, they are by definition a communist state, Communist state means a government that is in total control of the safety of every the citizenry and as such make ALL the decisions on their behalf.

China isn't communist though. They call themselves communist but they are that in name only. What most modern pollitical scholars describe their ecconomic system as is state capitalism as they allow a degree of private ownership. Also keep in mind that there is a difference between types of government and ecconomic systems.

[ls-]

So much misinformation in this thread. So sad...

There's two big Muslim minorities in China: Hui and Weiwuer a.k.a. Uighurs, there's also few smaller ones, e.g., Dongxiang, but they're pretty much non-existent.

Uighurs are the only Muslim minority that faces heavy restrictions, Hui people have virtually none. The only reason why they're treated this way is their misbehaviour. There's quite many radicals and separatists among Uighurs, many Uighurs DO NOT want to learn Chinese, many DO NOT want to be a part of China either, radicalisation of younger Uighur Muslims is a serious problem as well, it's so bad that their relationship even w/ other Muslim minorities in China is worse than ever these days. Heck, Uighurs who integrate well into Chinese society often are ostracised by their own people, some even say that "being so Chinese" is as bad as apostasy. And don't get me started on radicals going full-retard and using violence against other citizens.

I'm half-Uighur, however, I have no sympathy for the majority of Uighurs. Not that I'm super pro-Chinese either, I have issues w/ them as well

[NED funded]

It was a tactical landgrab that ended more violently than it had to.

"Ooops I guess?? We did not mean to?"

Is unfortunately not a valid defense.

[Sharein]

It's based on the nonsensical arguments we're opposing.

They say "Muslims are 'bad' because some do X, and thus we should oppose them."
When the same standard applies to other groups and you DON'T oppose them, you're a hypocrite who's lying about their motivations, which are prejudice and hatred. That's the point. If we apply the standards these people use, we'd have to "oppose" everyone. All men, because there are rapists. All Christians, because of pedophile protectionism by clergy. All atheists, because of Stalin's anti-theistic purges. This is why it's a ridiculous argument.

And that's why we hold up a mirror to it and show how ridiculous it is when you apply it to anything else. You find it "annoying and unconstructive"? Now you know how the rest of us feel about this nonsense hate speech regarding Muslims; it's exactly as annoying and unconstructive.

It just ends with a never ending cycle of people pointing fingers at each other.

If I do something bad, then I am the one responsible, not someone else who does the same. You can not justify a bad action with "yeah, but they do it too". It's childish and ridiculous.

[Deldavala]

I'm half-Uighur, however, I have no sympathy for the majority of Uighurs. Not that I'm super pro-Chinese either, I have issues w/ them as well

Wow a wild Uyghur appear. In all my trips to China I have only met 2 and they where brother and sister studying in Beijing, trying to get away from a toxic family.

Its nice to get perspective from your side aswell. Quick question, is the Uyghur population starting to split more?(where one side intergrate and the other not) or is it still just small fractions that wants to take part of the Chinese culture?

[NED funded]

So much misinformation in this thread. So sad...

There's two big Muslim minorities in China: Hui and Weiwuer a.k.a. Uighurs, there's also few smaller ones, e.g., Dongxiang, but they're pretty much non-existent.

Uighurs are the only Muslim minority that faces heavy restrictions, Hui people have virtually none. The only reason why they're treated this way is their misbehaviour. There's quite many radicals and separatists among Uighurs, many Uighurs DO NOT want to learn Chinese, many DO NOT want to be a part of China either, radicalisation of younger Uighur Muslims is a serious problem as well, it's so bad that their relationship even w/ other Muslim minorities in China is worse than ever these days. Heck, Uighurs who integrate well into Chinese society often are ostracised by their own people, some even say that "being so Chinese" is as bad as apostasy. And don't get me started on radicals going full-retard and using violence against other citizens.

I'm half-Uighur, however, I have no sympathy for the majority of Uighurs. Not that I'm super pro-Chinese either, I have issues w/ them as well

You don't need to have that much sympathy towards them to realize that what they are being subjected to is disgusting.

[Logwyn]

You seem to hold an odd sentiment, seeing as the population of Muslims living in the US are by and far completely peaceful.

Why can't other countries accomplish that? Who knows.

Muslims make up about 1% of the population in the US. Not sure that matters. Life is pretty good in the US. People tend to not want to revolt and stir up nation wide trouble when you can eat, drink, and go to work. Then come home and have fun with the Misses after the kids go to bed.

[ls-]

Wow a wild Uyghur appear. In all my trips to China I have only met 2 and they where brother and sister studying in Beijing, trying to get away from a toxic family.

Its nice to get perspective from your side aswell. Quick question, is the Uyghur population starting to split more?(where one side intergrate and the other not) or is it still just small fractions that wants to take part of the Chinese culture?

Well, you def can't call Uighur community homogeneous, it always was quite fractured because of religion.

Pro-integration group is quite small, the majority is content w/ their lives in "soon-to-be-kingdom" Xinjiang, they strongly believe that they'll be better off w/o Chinese money and help, and that the only thing they need is independence from PRC.

[NED funded]

They want to secede and take part of China with them. What should China do, pat them in the back?

That is up to China to figure out, but we should all agree that a police state and literal gulags are repugnant and I highly doubt they are effective at making them want to integrate.

[ls-]

You don't need to have that much sympathy towards them to realize that what they are being subjected to is disgusting.

They brought it upon themselves.

[Risale]

they can do it by conventional means to the home of terrorists, no need to demolish Mecca. but yes, they would hunt chinese muslims to extinction, if needed.

Not saying that the would do that to Mecca however if terrorists did a 9/11 job say in Beijing or any other major Chinese city then I would say all muslims worldwide would sorta be royally fucked.
There is this saying in China cut the grass, and don’t forget the root also (in other words you kill some of us we kill you, your family, your friends, their families, their friends and family and so on) and this was a well documented practice during the imperial days and since they now sorta have a new Emperor.

Not saying this will or even should happen but people need to understand that China works of a totally different playbook then the one western nations use.

[Tiwack]

It just ends with a never ending cycle of people pointing fingers at each other.

If I do something bad, then I am the one responsible, not someone else who does the same. You can not justify a bad action with "yeah, but they do it too". It's childish and ridiculous.

We're each responsible for our own actions and just because some people do something does not mean it is true for others just because they're of the same color/gender/religion/nationality etc. etc... Aka. prejudice. To suggest that is creating what you lament. A never ending cycle of people playing the blame game without getting anything done. Blinded by their own hatred and constantly playing the victim card...

[ls-]

That is up to China to figure out, but we should all agree that a police state and literal gulags are repugnant and I highly doubt they are effective at making them want to integrate.

Their current dismal state is the result of their own actions. They've been doing retarded stuff for many decades, they didn't become so "repressed" overnight. If Chinese government is out to get all Muslims, why don't Hui people have any major issues then?

[NED funded]

Their current dismal state is the result of their own actions. They've been doing retarded stuff for many decades, they didn't become so "repressed" overnight. If Chinese government is out to get all Muslims, why don't Hui people have any major issues then?

Throwing people into Gulags and establishing a literal police state is never ok dude. Regardless of the situation. Also, "they brought it upon themselves" nice way of justifying the unjust opression of an ethnic minority, fuck everyone that might be innocent I guess.

[infinit]

I'm sure I'm going to be infracted for this, but how much more does the world need to take before we realize that Islam, Muslims in particular, are a blight on society?

As soon as the left is done using them as a shield.

[Endus]

It just ends with a never ending cycle of people pointing fingers at each other.

If I do something bad, then I am the one responsible, not someone else who does the same. You can not justify a bad action with "yeah, but they do it too". It's childish and ridiculous.

The thing is, I'm not "doing it too". I'm holding it up and showing why it's a bullshit argument, no matter who the target is. That's the entire point.

[Amerrol]

Calling a spade a spade doesn’t apply when your saying every Muslim is a problem.

Potential problem, unless they prove otherwise. And I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in first impressions as well, unless they obviously demonstrate they are crazy ideologues.

Same applies to crazy Christian fundamentalists, too. If a person identifies as Christian, I'm going to assume they're gonna try to push their religion on me as well, until they don't.

- - - Updated - - -

This just plainly is not true.

Compare other groups in those same regions. Christian groups in these regions are just as "extremist" as anyone else. It has very little to do with the specific faith, and everything to do with geopolitical history.

People also ignore the last century of Western history. Because most of what people are treating as core Western values are relatively recent changes to those value systems, in many cases within living memory. Folks like yourself act like the homophobic stances of nations like Saudi Arabia are terrible (and they are), but also that they're incompatible with Western values, when those values essentially were Western values in the last half of the 20th Century. Alan Turing was given the option of imprisonment or chemical castration and probation (he chose the latter), because he was in a homosexual relationship. That's it. That was the entire charge. And that was in the UK, in 1952.

Yes, extremism is bad. No matter the flavor. Painting every member of a faith group based on the extremists, however, is prejudice, and nothing more.

Bro, Christians aren't running around in Pakistan in vigilante mobs killing people. They're not throwing of gay people from buildings. They're not wandering the streets of Europe in rape gangs.

I mean, if your argument is we should give Muslims a pass because Christians used to do bad things, then I dunno what to tell you. Actually, that makes perfect sense considering who I'm talking to. Until they stop doing this shit en masse in non-isolated incidents, they should be treated as a threat.