"Cynically negative" community cause of communication breakdown

[Caolela]

PvP was never really enjoyable, more frustrating than anything, I can see why Blizzard kind of let it slide.

Blizz fucking up PvP with templates, pruning, and piss-poor class design had nothing to do with PvP being enjoyable or not.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

And then there's the reality of what we've all seen Blizz do over the years. Some of you just have difficulty admitting it.

Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

Making shit up. Some of you have difficulty admitting you do it.

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Blizz fucking up PvP with templates, pruning, and piss-poor class design had nothing to do with PvP being enjoyable or not.

Wait, aren't templates just Blizzard listening to feedback? And yet here they are getting shit on for it. No wonder they don't like talking to people like you.

[Swalload]

If you distance yourself from your customers you end up with Warlords of Draenor. If you listen to them you end up with MoP and Legions. You better listen to the people putting money in your pocket.

Why not name a good xpack instead of MoP?

[Silver Forte]

About every time I ever interacted with the community on the official forums, I got an insult or a rude reply. I once asked what I was doing wrong with my DPS as an enhancement shaman and got two replies talking to me about how I can't read before I got any actual feedback. I don't know why but it seems like the people who play this game are just miserable.

[Tiwack]

Dead on right.

Here is the thing, Blizzard in no small part has helped to create the environment that the forums have become. In one breath they continually tell people that well constructed and thought out feedback is being read and listened to, but continually through alphas, betas, and PTR testing the exact opposite seems to be the case. I get the idea that you aren't going to respond to every single post created on the forums mid expansion, but during those phases that should be prime posting territory and discussion between Blizzard and it's players. Eventually it goes live with the exact same issues that good posters brought up months or years earlier with no response and the entire situation becomes toxic and any decent poster has long since left.

I've watched it with with just about every class out there over the course of this games life. I've seen and read countless threads of good feedback that seem to go unnoticed or unheeded until it's too late and people have started to abandon the class/spec and then Blizzard acts like it's the first time they knew it's a problem. I've seen issues raised with content, loot tables, and systems that Blizzard just flat out ignored and then get defensive about it when players leave that area of the game in droves.

Yes there are some asshats out there, and there will always be, but by choosing to respond how they have over the years they have actually enhanced that style of posting to where players seemingly default to that. They have also turned away from the forums towards social media, which is even worse in many cases, and also makes it feel to those that don't use it that you are even less active with the player base.

Sure posters should be more mature and less toxic, but I can say that after being on countless MMO boards over the last 20+ years that much of the fault for their state can be put directly on the companies themselves. When the type of posts you are looking for seem to be completely ignored for years on end those posters go away and leave you with mostly douchecanoes and old bitter posters.

Edit : The classic server forum they added is the perfect example. The make the announcement, create an area, but then give it zero direction and it turns into nothing but a giant cesspool of arguing over stupidity.

That struck me and reminded me that when they neglect to acknowledge and straight up ignore solid critique while reacting or at-least respond to bad posts they inadvertently end up encouraging bad posts because people most of all want to be heard and acknowledged causing any response from the mighty blues to become validation even if it's a lifted finger trying to control discourse. Odd that they don't have a way of marking or rating a post as read and/or acknowledged or don't just do way more polls and questionnaires than they do. It gives the impression that they don't care that much about feedback if not outright prejudiced about their own player-base and targeted age group.

[NoiseTank13]

LOL, from the same guy Ornyx posted;

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...ge=17#post-332

I had just openly attacked the very program he has spent months working on and outright calling for it's dismissal. What did you expect, that he was going to be happy with me? Of course he was rightly aggravated over that.

My post was completely inappropriate, was going nowhere good and served no beneficial purpose of discussion. It threw the forums into needless drama and wasted a whole bunch of time, including valuable time from Blue.

As one of the MVPs said, my "ignorance" might have damaged the program before it even really gets started.

Yeah, it feels like Blizzard ignores constructive feedback, probably because of people like the OP.

[Tiwack]

About every time I ever interacted with the community on the official forums, I got an insult or a rude reply. I once asked what I was doing wrong with my DPS as an enhancement shaman and got two replies talking to me about how I can't read before I got any actual feedback. I don't know why but it seems like the people who play this game are just miserable.

Haven't been to the official forums in several years based on similar experience and frustration at how little was done about it.

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LOL, from the same guy Ornyx posted;

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...ge=17#post-332



Yeah, it feels like Blizzard ignores constructive feedback, probably because of people like the OP.

Pot meet kettle.

[arcaneshot]

Bullshit.

I've seen hundreds of threads over the years that were helpful/constructive,

Hah. Every time I see this said post is prefaced with "If Blizzard doesn't listen to me...." and half of it is a blatant threat.

[Static]

About every time I ever interacted with the community on the official forums, I got an insult or a rude reply. I once asked what I was doing wrong with my DPS as an enhancement shaman and got two replies talking to me about how I can't read before I got any actual feedback. I don't know why but it seems like the people who play this game are just miserable.

You're right. A large amount of people in this game are just miserable, and I think one of the main reasons is because of how some Youtubers influence their followers in a very toxic way. I'm not going to include any names to not cause any unnecessary arguments since it's not worth my time, but all it takes is searching Youtube (and Twitch), and check out some of these people. Pretty sickening, to say the least.

[Talon8669]

In a recent Blizzard post, Ornyx insists that it is the "cynically negative" community at fault for the communication breakdown between Blizzard and the community:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-116
He fails to see "any reason why it would be in our best interest to actively engage with" this part of the community.

My response is simply this: if a community manager does not wish to manage and participate with the community then they should immediately resign and find someone who is willing to try. If that is how they really feel, we will continue stuck in this limbo state indefinitely as long as they're around.

It is not helpful in the slightest when one side has clearly given up attempting to manage the community as a community manager. There is nothing more frustrating than employees who stick around when they have clearly given up and burnt out. Be the change they want us to be.

Problem you have is that many people are very vocal about their dislikes and they tend to revolve around a specific aspect of the game; IE content or class. They typically are not constructive and usually argumentative. When you take this approach you leave yourself no recourse for conversation if they conversation does not inherently go the direction you want it. It makes communication very difficult and I personally totally see their reasoning for blaming the community for the communication breakdown. You also have to remember that there are many posters out there with very good information; IE breakdown on the math on how an ability works, or feedback on how a rotation should be and how it currently feels. A lot of times these threads don't get any blue feedback and it is usually because Blizz has taken the information and there was no follow up needed. If more people would openly post about their opinion on a specific aspect of the game and be open and willing to have their feedback either not responded to or for a conversation to develop that potentially does not go the way they want then I think you would have more constructive conversations with the Blizz team; however, people tend to just get pissed when they don't get their way.

[dope_danny]

I don't think i've ever seen a company that so often has employees shift blame to its audience. I guess they have enough 'heavy users' locked in for the duration at this point to tell them its okay to do so but even shitshows like Destiny 2 or Battleborn didn't go so often to the "you fuckers are trash, gimme money" route and actually get away with it so often.

[NoiseTank13]

Haven't been to the official forums in several years based on similar experience and frustration at how little was done about it.

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Pot meet kettle.

Which reminds me of the Fox and the Grapes parable.

I too, can bring up random phrases.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I don't think i've ever seen a company that so often has employees shift blame to its audience. I guess they have enough 'heavy users' locked in for the duration at this point to tell them its okay to do so but even shitshows like Destiny 2 or Battleborn didn't go so often to the "you fuckers are trash, gimme money" route and actually get away with it so often.

Luckily Blizzard has never once said that and the people they do ignore are usually ignored because they are not offering anything worth responding to or are acknowledged by in game changes instead of requiring a pat on their head for their contribution.

[dope_danny]

You're right. A large amount of people in this game are just miserable, and I think one of the main reasons is because of how some Youtubers influence their followers in a very toxic way. I'm not going to include any names to not cause any unnecessary arguments since it's not worth my time, but all it takes is searching Youtube (and Twitch), and check out some of these people. Pretty sickening, to say the least.

Outrage culture is an industry at this point. Not WoW based but look up a guy called 'Yong Yea'. Over the last year he made a transition to almost 100% clickbait that puts out and out self professed clickbait like 'The Know' to shame. Its like multiple interviews with viral marketers said: its far easier to make people hate your competitor than like your product. People love drama and a click is ad revenue.

[Tikishock]

I'm surprised WoW still has official forums. I would have given up on them a long time ago.

[Tiwack]

Which reminds me of the Fox and the Grapes parable.

I too, can bring up random phrases.

As long as you're aware what each of them imply, I'm cool.
Hope you're aware that you're projecting your own misery at people simply because you disagree with them. Might wanna look into that and adjust. You don't have to live in misery. You can change too!

[hyphnos]

How about a bit of both, please?

Most MMO forums (including this one) are 95% noise made by entitled, rude, whiny brats who endlessly complain about everything.
For this very reason community manager is a shitty job, and you can't expect to last for long unless you are willing to lose your sanity.

If what you say is true then a grown up, whose job it is to deal with customers, should be able to do their job without letting "entitled, rude, whiny brats" TYPING at them ruin their day.

It is more likely that the source of the frustration is having to toe the company line over and over spouting what they KNOW to be PR bullshit and then getting called out on it by people who are in fact adults that can quite easily spot nonsense and logical inconsistency. Blizzard is not alone in doing this shit but it doesn't make people bad people for calling them out on their shite. I think quite often they'd be better off just telling the truth instead of making up half-assed "reasons" for things they do and just say we did it because we wanted to (for whatever reason that falls within our corporate thinking right now).

[Nefarious Tea]

Apparently, Ornyx has grown used to yes men and Blizz boot-lickers being around him. Blizz shits on the game and a lot of people aren't happy with it (as evidenced by killing 70%+ of the PvP community as just one example). People express to CMs like Ornyx their dissatisfaction and annoyance, and he labels them "cynically negative" or some other ridiculous epithet instead of facing facts that the game has been steadily and slowly turned to RNG-shit-for-profit hamster wheel grinding.

WoW used to be a MMORPG. Ornyx and his ilk can't handle when someone tells them the emperor has no clothes. They want only happy! joy! talk or nothing at all.

It doesn't work that way.

I think the major issue isn't people disagreeing with Blizzard's decisions. It's something about gamers (generally the socially awkward, shut-in variety) that prevents them from expressing that dissatisfaction in a meaningful and respectful way, and instead is nothing but threats and vitriol and profanity.

There's no "I don't like this, this is why, and here is my proposed solution."

It's always, always, "BLIZZ U FUCKIN SUCK FIX NAO BLIZZ MAKE ERRYTHIN HOW I WAN IT"

And of course that doesn't help any one, least of all the person posting that.

[last1214]

I feel like Ornyx 's post is taken a little out of context.

I dont understand the big fuss about lack of communication in the first place. I mean get the fuck over it. Some people just dont have the energy to respod to your stupid ideas, even when its thier job.

[Hubbl3]

I feel like Ornyx 's post is taken a little out of context.

I dont understand the big fuss about lack of communication in the first place. I mean get the fuck over it. Some people just dont have the energy to respod to your stupid ideas, even when its thier job.

It's not even their job to respond to all the stupid ideas.