[SPOILERS]: Saurfang Stockades Dialogue

[Sky High]

so you are complaining they are randomly killing off horde leaders... when in reality they are giving a horde leader and interesting and one of a kind story? (one of a kind in wow atleast)

I "complained" about this back during MoP, now I'm just numb to the whole story to give it any kind of thought that doesn't involve a lot of groaning.

[Dudas]

They should play to the Horde strengths; most of their races have suffered great tragedy, some have lived as puppets for evil masters, others have lost their homes, suffered betrayals and so on. These things, from a writing perspective would be a great way to build a more unified Horde, but for now, for whatever reason, the divisions between them are being highlighted and touched upon.

That is exactly what they are doing. Sylvanas says she doesn't want to have horde warriors die for nothing. He says using blight is not honorable. She asks for another option. He doesn't provide any. She asks the Horde warriors, including orcs, to retreat and sends forsaken troops to deploy the blight so they buy time for Undercity civilians and military to evacuate through the portal. While Saurfang gets captured for some reason.

That's why people are pissed with him. Plus when the Horde saves him, he refuses. No one would bash Saurfang if he came back home and challenged Sylvanas to Mak'gora. People bash him cause he is not doing anything from what his character should do, or that he doesn't act accordingly to his code of honor.

[FelPlague]

I "complained" about this back during MoP, now I'm just numb to the whole story to give it any kind of thought that doesn't involve a lot of groaning.

so im confused, do you want charecters to evolve and grow, to break boundries in wow? or do you just want them to die, or do you want no change ever to happen, do you still want thrall warcheif, varian and voljin alive, aswell as Garrosh still hanging out?

cause im confused about your point you say

"I hate that the horde is just a checklist"
implying that you hate that 1 by 1 horde leaders are just killed off, when this story is about a horde leader evolving into something new...

[Jester Joe]

how so is it implied he did?

Rise of the horde, durotan attacks telmor with his fellow orcs.
they attack and then a small draenei girl starts hitting him, he goes to strike her but stops, noticing it is a child.
then one of his fellow orcs kills the child and he yells at all of them, calling off the attack.
he was then traumatized by that childs death stuck with him.

Durotan did not drink the blood.

What does him stopping have to do with anything?

Saurfang DID drink the blood. He was used to slaughter Draenei in mass. Like I said, it is FAR less likely that he didn't kill any children.

again just because he was there, and got traumatized by it, does not mean he himself did it, specially with how hurt he is by it, he may not have killed them but those around him did, and that would be enough to traumtize him, saurfang is a man of honor, he finds no honor in killing children.

again i dont understand why you are saying "he was there, he was traumatized by it, obviously he himself did it"
the argument "If he was close enough to hear the screams, he must have done it" is just 100% false, look above the child was literally hitting him, he watched the child spit blood and collapse in death, did he do it? no, so who says the same did not happen to Saurfang, sent along side his fellow orcs to attack shattrath, with a group of his brothers taking out paladins to find his brothers killing the women and children the warriors were trying to escort to safety?

why does it have to be "he saw it, so that means he did it"

Yet again, Durotar did not drink the blood, he had control.
Saurfang did drink the blood. He had no control. His honor didn't matter.

And it's FAR more than "he was there", it was a "he was there when the refugees were found and slaughtered, and he was under the control of the Legion so he was told to kill the innocent too".

[Crillam]

It is alpha, things can change and they can even put things ingame to fool you guys.

[FelPlague]

That is exactly what they are doing. Sylvanas says she doesn't want to have horde warriors die for nothing. He says using blight is not honorable. She asks for another option. He doesn't provide any. She asks the Horde warriors, including orcs, to retreat and sends forsaken troops to deploy the blight so they buy time for Undercity civilians and military to evacuate through the portal. While Saurfang gets captured for some reason.

That's why people are pissed with him. Plus when the Horde saves him, he refuses. No one would bash Saurfang if he came back home and challenged Sylvanas to Mak'gora. People bash him cause he is not doing anything from what his character should do, or that he doesn't act accordingly to his code of honor.

the horde saves the zandalari, he just happens to be there so they check up on him.

also he very much acts in the code of honor, and he is doing exactly what his charecter would do, wen garrosh did this same thing he kept silent until he could help the rebellion, for now he is sick of the horde becvoming the worst of what it could, and decides he has had enough, he will not be part of sylvanas's horde, as they rather the planet a pile of ash and plague then let the alliance win a battle.

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Durotan did not drink the blood.

What does him stopping have to do with anything?

Saurfang DID drink the blood. He was used to slaughter Draenei in mass. Like I said, it is FAR less likely that he didn't kill any children.



Yet again, Durotar did not drink the blood, he had control.
Saurfang did drink the blood. He had no control. His honor didn't matter.

And it's FAR more than "he was there", it was a "he was there when the refugees were found and slaughtered, and he was under the control of the Legion so he was told to kill the innocent too".

mind sharing links of him having been ordered to kill innocents and him following commands?
mind showing sources of him slaughtering children?

cause nothing said about him or by him implies he himself killed children, just that he was there when it happened.

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It is alpha, things can change and they can even put things ingame to fool you guys.

except it makes 0 sense for it to be in, then blizzard to waste time changing it to "meme us" to then have to change it AGAIN later.

[Sky High]

so im confused, do you want charecters to evolve and grow, to break boundries in wow?

I don't care, because I think the entire story/plot to WoW is week old garbage that's been sitting in the summer heat. it's been that way ever since Cata, we played up Garr- oh wait he's evil. ok now we have Vol'jin played up and oh wait he's dead, now we played up Silvanis and oh wait looks like she's on her way out as well. are they gonna stick to one leader for more than two expansions? not looking that way, so I just. don't. FUCKING. care.

[Jester Joe]

mind sharing links of him having been ordered to kill innocents and him following commands?

All orcs were told to slaughter the draenei, and to use them to fuel the Dark Portal.
If you need a source on that, I can't help that.

mind showing sources of him slaughtering children?

Saurfang himself is the source. If anything, you have to back up that he DIDN'T kill them, because you're the one making the claim about it.

cause nothing said about him or by him implies he himself killed children, just that he was there when it happened.

Bloodthirsty, fel driven orcs are known very much for just standing there doing nothing.

[Stardrift]

Dead to me. He's finally coming to terms with gutting Alliance? As if what Sylvanas has done was any worse than Garrosh or the Fel Horde he rolled with. Age (and bad writing) have made you soft, Saurfang.

"I disagree as this goes against my headcanon. Therefore, this is bad writing."

[FelPlague]

I don't care, because I think the entire story/plot to WoW is week old garbage that's been sitting in the summer heat. it's been that way ever since Cata, we played up Garr- oh wait he's evil. ok now we have Vol'jin played up and oh wait he's dead, now we played up Silvanis and oh wait looks like she's on her way out as well. are they gonna stick to one leader for more than two expansions? not looking that way, so I just. don't. FUCKING. care.

and how are you so sure sylvanas is on her way out?
and if you dont care about the story, and havent since cata stop interacting with it then, dont read it unless you really get off to angering yourself.
dont liek it dont engage with it.

[Niaraa]

Horde infighting again.

Literally MoP 2.0. getting veeeeery close to skipping it entirely.

Horde can be compared to a Khanate or somthing like that in real life Political instability is normal and in fact it's to my eyes more interesting than the very stable monarchies in the Alliance.
The simple fact that you can change warchief with a Mak'gora don't help for stability! even the old Horde, pupet of the legion, had internal problems (that's why the Horde lose the second war)
Don't take this like a MOP 2.0 but a Horde folklore.

[Castrum]

"I disagree as this goes against my headcanon. Therefore, this is bad writing."

He suddenly has a problem with chopping Allifags up because of "honor." To the point where he's evidently willing to work with the Alliance against Horde interests. Sounds like bad writing to me.

Infracted.

[FelPlague]

All orcs were told to slaughter the draenei, and to use them to fuel the Dark Portal.
If you need a source on that, I can't help that.



Saurfang himself is the source. If anything, you have to back up that he DIDN'T kill them, because you're the one making the claim about it.



Bloodthirsty, fel driven orcs are known very much for just standing there doing nothing.

yet nerzhuls clan who also drank the blood did not, they were able to restrain themselves.

saurfang talks about pure honor, how he would not let them take his son, he speaks about it in a way that speaks of someone who regrets what happens, and fully knows what happened.

He has not said if he did or did not engage in the killing, so implying either is stupid, i was simply pointing out "The same evidance you use for "he for sure did it" can be countered by simply using the same evidance to say "he didnt do it"
There is no way to know for sure until he confirms or denies, but knowing his charecter he is not the kind, even hopped on on fel juice, to do such a thing.

again nerzul's clan were able to control it fine.



(drekthar i mean)

[FriendOrTraitor]

Also I'm not really sure why people are surprised that there is infighting in the Horde, that has practically been a staple of the faction since its inception.

[Jester Joe]

saurfang talks about pure honor, how he would not let them take his son, he speaks about it in a way that speaks of someone who regrets what happens, and fully knows what happened.

He has not said if he did or did not engage in the killing, so implying either is stupid, i was simply pointing out "The same evidance you use for "he for sure did it" can be countered by simply using the same evidance to say "he didnt do it"
There is no way to know for sure until he confirms or denies, but knowing his charecter he is not the kind, even hopped on on fel juice, to do such a thing.

Except he himself is extremely regretful for what happened. It's not the type of regret of "I dislike that others did this near me", it's a "I know I did this".

And no, because the "he didn't do it" relies solely on "Well he didn't exactly SAY he did it" meanwhile, he himself describes quite in detail how much pain it caused.

again nerzul's clan were able to control it fine.



(drekthar i mean)

That looks a bit out of context.

Orcs have an innate bloodlust as far as I know, or at least some do. The fel just amplified it. And you're comparing a caster to a warrior.

One is in people's face, feeling the blood and violence. Even in that blurb, it says the people who were back from the fight were able to stop.

[Sky High]

and how are you so sure sylvanas is on her way out?
and if you dont care about the story, and havent since cata stop interacting with it then, dont read it unless you really get off to angering yourself.
dont liek it dont engage with it.

did I say I was sure? pretty sure what I said was "looks to be that way".
also this is an RPG, saying the story can just "be ignored" is a hilarious thing to say. I wish I could, but the game wont let me!

[FelPlague]

Except he himself is extremely regretful for what happened. It's not the type of regret of "I dislike that others did this near me", it's a "I know I did this".

And no, because the "he didn't do it" relies solely on "Well he didn't exactly SAY he did it" meanwhile, he himself describes quite in detail how much pain it caused.



That looks a bit out of context.

Orcs have an innate bloodlust as far as I know, or at least some do. The fel just amplified it. And you're comparing a caster to a warrior.

One is in people's face, feeling the blood and violence. Even in that blurb, it says the people who were back from the fight were able to stop.

look above i literally posted the book.


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did I say I was sure? pretty sure what I said was "looks to be that way".
also this is an RPG, saying the story can just "be ignored" is a hilarious thing to say. I wish I could, but the game wont let me!

it can, as MOST wow players literally just 100% ignore rthe story...

[Jester Joe]

look above i literally posted the book.

That was before the blood. A quick glance at Durotan's page on any lore site backs that up.

[Wildberry]

"Wah!! Wah!! The Banshee Lady Garrosh said mean things to me! Wah! I don't wanna come out of here ever! I hate da horwde! WAHH!"

Darkspear Rebellion in a nutshell

[Stardrift]

He suddenly has a problem with chopping Allifags up because of "honor." To the point where he's evidently willing to work with the Alliance against Horde interests. Sounds like bad writing to me.

It's in alpha, don't jump the shark so soon. The story isn't all there.
Also, how isn't it very Saurfang of him to go against Sylvanas? As we've seen in the cinematic (which clearly you've forgotten about already) he's very enthusiastic about chopping up allifags.
Come back to critique after all the story and context is in place. Surely, you'll find something to nag about. There's always that one thing with you lore warriors.