Is this guild's leadership bad, or am I wrong in this?

[david0925]

You don't have to be specific with your reason. Rather than say something like "They wanted to take the mounts for themselves first and I wouldn't get it til the last kills" say "I didn't agree with how they handled fairness and how they thought of other members, they put themselves before anyone else". That would be a very valid reason.

and any decent recruiters/guild officers will then ask you about the details which they will understand at some point that you're leaving a guild because you don't have first dibs on mount rolls. At that point how they want to assess that information is up to them, but for me being so vague about why you're leaving a guild is a huge red flag. I would rather people be very specific about it.

While performance is very important, spotting guild hoppers is more important because they often hurt the guild more than they help. I'm not actually trying to imply the OP hops or doesn't hop, or that his guild is fair or unfair, but I do care about why a player left their previous guild, especially when it is as progressed or more progressed than the one they are currently applying for.

[MisterBigglez]

And in the same conversation you would then ask whether or not you get to roll for your mythic mount as a trial? It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to put that one together.

and any decent recruiters/guild officers will then ask you about the details which they will understand at some point that you're leaving a guild because you don't have first dibs on mount rolls. At that point how they want to assess that information is up to them, but for me being so vague about why you're leaving a guild is a huge red flag. I would rather people be very specific about it.

While performance is very important, spotting guild hoppers is more important because they often hurt the guild more than they help. I'm not actually trying to imply the OP hops or doesn't hop, or that his guild is fair or unfair, but I do care about why a player left their previous guild, especially when it is as progressed or more progressed than the one they are currently applying for.

I'm not trying to condone the reasoning behind leaving a guild over a mount. I already said in a previous post that I don't care much for mounts and that I think if the leaders do a good job, i'd be happy to let them to have first dibs on the mount.

Theres more to it than just leaving over a mount though. The leaders are asking for a 4 week mandatory attendance and subscription to get them the mount. That to me shows that they only care about themselves and that they rank others as inferioir, and others more inferior to the inferior members. I wouldn't want to be in a guild like that, so my reasoning for leaving would ultimately come down to that. If a guild wanted to hear every single little bit of detail, then I would use the mount as one example amongst a few others at the end. Though I don't think i've ever applied to a guild where they have drained me for information about a previous guild.

[david0925]

I'm not trying to condone the reasoning behind leaving a guild over a mount. I already said in a previous post that I don't care much for mounts and that I think if the leaders do a good job, i'd be happy to let them to have first dibs on the mount.

Theres more to it than just leaving over a mount though. The leaders are asking for a 4 week mandatory attendance and subscription to get them the mount. That to me shows that they only care about themselves and that they rank others as inferioir, and others more inferior to the inferior members. I wouldn't want to be in a guild like that, so my reasoning for leaving would ultimately come down to that. If a guild wanted to hear every single little bit of detail, then I would use the mount as one example amongst a few others at the end. Though I don't think i've ever applied to a guild where they have drained me for information about a previous guild.

And my question was, and always has been, "what does 4 week of forced participation even contribute?"

Because the first 4 mounts were already effectively assigned. If you don't like that, you're going to quit before those 4 weeks even take place. So this has no binding power on you

If you are going to stick around for the mount, you're only eligible starting week 5, so why would you have needed a rule to discourage you from quitting the first 4 weeks? Essentially, what is even the target audience for this rule?

All that rule shows is that the leaders are dumb, but I don't think it actually shows whether they are selfish or not.

[Cariboulou]

Sounds like a heroic guild to me. I doubt a serious mythic guild could survive on trade chat and /1.

We're 6/11, soon to be 7/11 if all goes well on sunday. Don't just assume your idea of how a guild works is the only way to go, makes you seem very uninformed.

[Mister Cheese]

Fuckin leave and join a better guild working on argus. It sounds like they're gonna take the mounts and run.

[Marrilaife]

While performance is very important, spotting guild hoppers is more important because they often hurt the guild more than they help. I'm not actually trying to imply the OP hops or doesn't hop, or that his guild is fair or unfair, but I do care about why a player left their previous guild, especially when it is as progressed or more progressed than the one they are currently applying for.

Of course most people lie and whitewash themselves if they are guild hoppers, but people who change guilds a lot are usually a sign they quit for whimsical reasons like "I wasn't given 1 piece of loot I really wanted" or "I was benched on 1 boss". And no guild is perfect, if someone always left the guild whenever 1 thing they dislike happens, they would never stay in any guild - always where there are people there is some unpleasant stuff. It's never 100% rainbows and roses.

- - - Updated - - -

We're 6/11, soon to be 7/11 if all goes well on sunday.

Sadly by the timetable Blizzard outlined it looks like guilds similar to yours won't have enough time to secure mounts for everyone, I hope whatever way you decide to distribute them, the people left out will be fine with it.

Personally I think they should revert it to MOP system where endboss dropped 2 mounts (on 25 man mode, 1 mount on 10 man), that way the content drought could be cut short but people wouldn't have to farm the mount for 5+ months to ensure no one is left out.

[Cariboulou]

Sadly by the timetable Blizzard outlined it looks like guilds similar to yours won't have enough time to secure mounts for everyone, I hope whatever way you decide to distribute them, the people left out will be fine with it.

True that, no way in hell we're getting mounts for everyone. We've already agreed to just raid roll the mount if/when we get Argus down.

[Alphatorg]

We're 6/11, soon to be 7/11 if all goes well on sunday. Don't just assume your idea of how a guild works is the only way to go, makes you seem very uninformed.

Actually 6/11 at this point is precisely what I would describe as a heroic guid that steps into mythic after it has been nerfed closer to their level. Which (even though my pervious sentence may not sound like it) I'm completely fine with, but how you guys do things has little to do with how a serious mythic guild runs its shop, because the goals are different. It's two different worlds.

[Sheor]

Where is it stated that mythic has been nerfed down to heroic level? So that heroic guilds can do it?

[Deleted]

I'd speak to some of the raiders and hear what they think, if it doesnt work, leave, chances are, it will happen again in the tier after BFA

@otaXephon you need to update your bingo sheet, "Legacy servers will never happen" :^)

[Th3D0n]

Back when i raided Hardcore from beginning of Cata up to start of WOD, the guild that i was part of /rolled on all mounts, regardless if it was a low drop or 100% drop. Obviously for you to be able to roll on these mounts you had to be minimum raider rank ( so no trials) and having progressed from the beginning of that specific raiding tier ( so people that joined mid progression or just a few bosses had no chance at the mount), but other than that, it didn't matter if you were the GM, officer, raid leader, core raider or just raider, everyone had an equal chance of getting the mount. "There is not I in team" , everyone who was there from the start of the progression, put in the same amount of effort to kill all those bosses,rightfully so, everyone has an equal chance at the "rare" rewards.

P.S. For gear drops we used loot council.

[Malefic]

Honestly?

Any guild clearing content should be actively clearing content throughout the remainder of the expansion, especially given it becomes a 3 hour blitz as weeks go on.

Whether the guilds intentions are just take the mount for 4 people and call it a day is something no-one can know, but myself personally, and as someone that has raided at a very high level, I think it's perfectly acceptable that people are expected to continue to play the game/show for raids and clear the content.

The biggest improvement a group of players can make is when they're using farmed content to push their characters to the limits in terms of DPS and under healing encounters. Any guild should want to continue to clear every week in order to improve. Exceptions are the odd "Yay we cleared let's not raid for 2-3 weeks" things and the odd "Expansion is 3 weeks away do we really need to continue doing this...?"

[Jyggalag]

Your char doesn't appear to have raided there past Highmaul though?

So it was world 56 in SoO, took a break and re-built the team for WoD, cleared the raid in 4 resets, I've logs of ranking 5th Ele shaman in the world for that tier with rank 1 twin ogron and ko'ragh but I suppose i'd need a kill vid with evidence of higher than that world 198 kill playing with Verdisha from Paragon before I could have anything but an ignorant view on how mythic raiding works Let's see your trump card then.

[Alphatorg]

So it was world 56 in SoO, took a break and re-built the team for WoD, cleared the raid in 4 resets, I've logs of ranking 5th Ele shaman in the world for that tier with rank 1 twin ogron and ko'ragh but I suppose i'd need a kill vid with evidence of higher than that world 198 kill playing with Verdisha from Paragon before I could have anything but an ignorant view on how mythic raiding works Let's see your trump card then.

You actually do understand that all kinds of information is readily available, right? You know, like looking up your Garrosh first kill achievement from August 2014?
I have nothing but respect for Example, but I find your stories quite amusing.

[justandulas]

While I don't find the idea of GM's and officers getting it first (they put in more work and deserve to reap the rewards) i do find it totally condescending how transparent your GM is saying raid for 4 weeks. 10 minimum is fair since it then gives everyone a fair chance at it. Burnout will happen, and it's coming soon for a lot of people (always does the last 3-5 months of an expac) but unless they compromise and give the raiders 4-5 legit chances at rolling I don't know that i'd continue showing up.

If this is the guild you want to be with for expansions to come; then thats how it is and i'd say just let it go. If not; to hell with that, life is too short to spend raiding for other people after your done

[Jyggalag]

You actually do understand that all kinds of information is readily available, right? You know, like looking up your Garrosh first kill achievement from August 2014?
I have nothing but respect for Example, but I find your stories quite amusing.

I'd love to hear yours! Plenty outside of LFR i'm sure

[Alphatorg]

I'd love to hear yours! Plenty outside of LFR i'm sure

I have to admit, I don't have anything as good as "I've played on world 40 level, because I raided 4 weeks at #200".

[Jyggalag]

I have to admit, I don't have anything as good as "I've played on world 40 level, because I raided 4 weeks at #200".

Confirmed shitter. Git gud

[Indil]

End of tier mounts are usually rolled between all raid. Classic Nazi Behaviour

[Kirbypro]

These mounts create so much drama. My guild last expansion (I was a casual) basically dissolved with only Archie to kill when some of the raiders realized that it was too late for everyone to be guaranteed the mount so some of the players started to bail and look for guilds who could guarantee them chances.

Sure the mounts can be cool every once in a while but it's really not a big deal whether you get it or not.

Sounds about right. The HFC mount was pretty cool though.