[SPOILERS]: Saurfang Stockades Dialogue

[Katchii]

Genn is a low energy and 1 dimensional character with no other story plot except "SHE TOOK MAH SON! GRRRRRR-RAWWRRRR". I honestly can't see how -anyone- likes him.

I agree that this is how much depth I see in his character. Sylvanas, for better or worse, at least has more depth than he does and so does Saurfang.

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out with Saurfang, but I know I'll be extremely disappointed if he just turns his back on the Horde and the orcs because he doesn't like Sylvanas or what she's doing.

[Deleted]

Weak bait.

Really, can you bring any argument to a forum debate? Because I'm all still waiting for your counter-argument regarding Saurfang.

[GreenJesus]

LUL Saurfang for High King of the Alliance?? LUL fuck that guy you can have him. Turns out he is just a suicidal little bitch.

Let me get this straight.. He turns to the ALLIANCE with Genn Greymane and Jaina on their side to potentially raid a Horde capital again and potentially put thousands of Horde lives in danger when he could just walk up to Sylvanas himself and challenge her? What a fucking pussy traitor. This just makes him look weak and stupid by trusting the Alliance.

[Enrif]

How about theorising a scenario that makes all of this plausible.

Saurfang talks to Anduin, stating that the Banshee Queen must be put down, to prevent what happened with Garrosh.
Anduin agrees and let's Saurfang go. Saurfang first heads up the eastern Kingdoms, meeting with Lor'themar and getting him on his side.
After that they go to the Desolate Council and get them to their side. Finally going back to Kalimdor, he will get to Baine and will acquire his help too. Back in Orgrimmar he rallies then the Orcs and Trolls.

BUT, there is no open rebellion yet.

Next is getting the allied Races on board. The Mag'Har will probably follow more likely an Orc then the Banshee Queen. The Nightborne and High Mountain are also already closer to the Blood Elves and Tauren, so they could be easily swayed.

Means only the Golbins and the Zandalari are left.

Let's say they manage somehow to convince the Goblins and Zandalari too. Only then there will be a "Rebelion" against Sylvanas. BUT, it will not lead to SoO 2.

Sylvanas, would be fully aware of what transpired the whole time and made her quiet escape and no one, even Nathanos does not know where she went.

The Horde is again united. Saurfang or Baine become Warchief. Nathanos joines the Desolate Council and rules the Forsaken for the time.


As for Sylvanas... she went to Northrend. She needs new subject. This time, they have to be loyal, without question. She will encounter the Lich King. And then, next expansion!

[Verdugo]

How about theorising a scenario that makes all of this plausible.

Saurfang talks to Anduin, stating that the Banshee Queen must be put down, to prevent what happened with Garrosh.
Anduin agrees and let's Saurfang go. Saurfang first heads up the eastern Kingdoms, meeting with Lor'themar and getting him on his side.
After that they go to the Desolate Council and get them to their side. Finally going back to Kalimdor, he will get to Baine and will acquire his help too. Back in Orgrimmar he rallies then the Orcs and Trolls.

BUT, there is no open rebellion yet.

Next is getting the allied Races on board. The Mag'Har will probably follow more likely an Orc then the Banshee Queen. The Nightborne and High Mountain are also already closer to the Blood Elves and Tauren, so they could be easily swayed.

Means only the Golbins and the Zandalari are left.

Let's say they manage somehow to convince the Goblins and Zandalari too. Only then there will be a "Rebelion" against Sylvanas. BUT, it will not lead to SoO 2.

Sylvanas, would be fully aware of what transpired the whole time and made her quiet escape and no one, even Nathanos does not know where she went.

The Horde is again united. Saurfang or Baine become Warchief. Nathanos joines the Desolate Council and rules the Forsaken for the time.


As for Sylvanas... she went to Northrend. She needs new subject. This time, they have to be loyal, without question. She will encounter the Lich King. And then, next expansion!

There is only one question,

Why the fuck would they do that.

[Jack Black]

Really, can you bring any argument to a forum debate? Because I'm all still waiting for your counter-argument regarding Saurfang.

What you waiting? Me telling you oblivious? Starting war for no reason, burning another Alliance city, using Blight.

So all you have is shitty one liners and no real arguments.

Also stating fact btw.

Oh. No need to be mean. I understand, but still no need.

[Enrif]

There is only one question,

Why the fuck would they do that.

would you rather get the MoP Story again?

[Benitora]

I think they will do another route with Sylvanas.

They won't kill her, because hell, she like Illidan is a fan favorite, so they won't outright kill her.

They may however, bring her into a redemption story, sorta like the one Illidan was "supposed" to have. She pissed off the Eyir pretty badly, and she is running out of Val'kyr to keep her Forsaken intact.
Her forsaken are feeling left out, and start to govern themselves with the whole "council" thing going on in Undercity with Sylvanas being away.

I can see her towards the end of BFA, turning into a more fit leader for the Horde as a whole, by actually becoming more "alive".
The reason as to why she is looking more and more to become something like Garrosh, is because she already was like him, but maybe even worse, but kept it back a bit to not get her and her people wiped out.

She's cunning and knows her way around the world and how it works. She knows actions will have consequences, she just does not care.

So I am predicting that at the end of the BFA, in however way Blizzard will turn it, she will turn and actually get some emotions again, and turn into a worthy leader of the Horde.

Edit:
In regards to Saurfang turning towards the Alliance, pretty obvious with how he view's honor before anything, with Sylvanas not showing any of the sort.

[Kwento]

What if Saurfang gets a reason to go back to the Horde? He is in the middle of Alliance main city, maybe he sees something unnerving like a superior Azerite machinery, or tens of thousands gnome troopers heading to war. Then he quicky admits that the Horde needs help and gets out of Stormwind, grabbing AU orcs (ugh...) and supporting the Horde even under Sylvanas. Because Horde under the undead elf is better then no Horde at all.

[Dudas]

What if Saurfang gets a reason to go back to the Horde? He is in the middle of Alliance main city, maybe he sees something unnerving like a superior Azerite machinery, or tens of thousands gnome troopers heading to war. Then he quicky admits that the Horde needs help and gets out of Stormwind, grabbing AU orcs (ugh...) and supporting the Horde even under Sylvanas. Because Horde under the undead elf is better then no Horde at all.

Saurfang grabbing AU orcs is so... ... ... "Hello fellow iron horde orcs. Since you have stopped killing Draenei children and women, like I did, I will take you under my cape to fight along factions you don't even know. Oh hello fellow Grom Hellscream but worse. It's been two expansions since we had people chopped by Gorehowl. Wanna come and fight but don't kill footmen this time? Cause they fight with honor so we must only train our vanilla weapon skills against them but not harm the precious honorable little things. Also if I catch a zandalari troll doing voodoo magic I will hang him myself. Death magic is not honor magic. The only magic I accept is rainbow magic that can cause no harm" Join now. Sign up for free trial of combat! Uncle Saur needs you!

[Kwento]

Saurfang grabbing AU orcs is so... ... ... "Hello fellow iron horde orcs. Since you have stopped killing Draenei children and women, like I did, I will take you under my cape to fight along factions you don't even know. Oh hello fellow Grom Hellscream but worse. It's been two expansions since we had people chopped by Gorehowl. Wanna come and fight but don't kill footmen this time? Cause they fight with honor so we must only train our vanilla weapon skills against them but not harm the precious honorable little things. Also if I catch a zandalari troll doing voodoo magic I will hang him myself. Death magic is not honor magic. The only magic I accept is rainbow magic that can cause no harm" Join now. Sign up for free trial of combat! Uncle Saur needs you!

Yeah... But at least we don’t make Warchief’s death an annual event... Unless Grom kills Sylvanas. Which come to think of it, he would be very willing to do...
Right, back to drawing boards.

[Dudas]

Yeah... But at least we don’t make Warchief’s death an annual event... Unless Grom kills Sylvanas. Which come to think of it, he would be very willing to do...
Right, back to drawing boards.

He has some nerve considering he approved Gruuls with canons on their back and had military equipment that could make murlocs conquer Pandaria and Northrend and everything in between in the same time!

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

"No matter how dire the battle, NEVER forsake it."

-Years later whines about battle and sulks in a cage-

Saurfang the Bitch everyone!

Misquoted. The real quote was "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
Garrosh even quoted that when he dispatched the sub-commander who disappointed him. Saurfang has always been about doing what he believed to be honorable.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I agree that this is how much depth I see in his character. Sylvanas, for better or worse, at least has more depth than he does and so does Saurfang.

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out with Saurfang, but I know I'll be extremely disappointed if he just turns his back on the Horde and the orcs because he doesn't like Sylvanas or what she's doing.

Yep. His single line in the BfA cinematic even was narrowed down to Sylvanas. "ClOsE RanKs, advance as one, Lordaeron will be ours! MaH KiNg, wE HavE HERRRRRR cOrnERed."

[Combatbutler]

Yep. His single line in the BfA cinematic even was narrowed down to Sylvanas. "ClOsE RanKs, advance as one, Lordaeron will be ours! MaH KiNg, wE HavE HERRRRRR cOrnERed."

He called out Anduin, before being Palpatined too.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Misquoted. The real quote was "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
Garrosh even quoted that when he dispatched the sub-commander who disappointed him. Saurfang has always been about doing what he believed to be honorable.

"Honor means nothing to a corpse.".

[Dudas]

Misquoted. The real quote was "Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
Garrosh even quoted that when he dispatched the sub-commander who disappointed him. Saurfang has always been about doing what he believed to be honorable.

And then he throws a mana bomb on Theramore OMEGAHONORABLE!!!!!!

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

He called out Anduin, before being Palpatined too.

Genn is Palpatine to Anduin. Anduin is Anakin.
https://youtu.be/n3DHDXAzoBA?t=170

[bloodmoth13]

I actually hope that the entire burning of teldrassil coming first is a red herring, it makes zero sense for the horde to strike first, the alliance on the other hand have every reason to strike first!

Reasons for Alliance attacking first:
1)Calia menethil has recently surfaced, she is a priest like anduin, they can meet at the end of legion and discuss things. anduin needs a queen, and calia is a princess with a lost kingdom inhabited by inhuman undead.
Anduin reclaims Lordaeron in her name as a gift to welcome her back into the alliance (ignoring or unaware of her interest in reclaiming her kingdom) and plans on restoring lordaeron to its former glory as a bastion of hope for all those ravaged by the scourge and forsaken (the kind of noble intentions that anduin would likely possess)

2)Genn Wants his homeland back and the forsaken are currently occupying it. Now that all outside forces of the iron horde and legion have been crushed, it is the time for the alliance to look inwards and support their own by reclaiming gilneas for the worgen.

3)Anduin demands Sylvanas pay for her treachery at the broken shore that lead to his fathers untimely death due to being overwhelmed by the invading forces of the burning legion which the horde pledged to help the alliance defend azeroth against (as far as i know this is still the alliances position on the matter)

4)After the bombing of theramore, the lordaeron citizens that followed jaina east to kalimdor have become displaced twice. With the scourge kept in check by bolvar and the forsakens attacks on southshore and gilneas unveiling their murderous intent, it is time the alliance did something to help their citizens reclaim their homeland. stormwind is overcrowded by homesick refugees, jaina demands anduin do something to help their people, it has been far too long since the citizens of theramore and lordaeron have had a home to call their own

Reasons for Horde attacking first:
Sylvanas is evil and the rest of the horde are far too incompetent to oppose anything their EBILLL warchief demands. All horde leaders roll over and allow sylvanas to torch the night elves ancestral homeland without question.
Baine claps his hands in excitement as the bright flames consume teldrassil, he cries "look at duh pritty liets! hahaha" with the innocence of a toddler as sylvanas puts more fire on the wood. Gallywix was generous enough to provide a comfortable gazeebo and refreshments "at a price!" while lorthemar cooks them some of his famous silvermoon fried hawkstrider to enjoy, unfused with love and the light of the sunwell! the trolls still have no racial leader so they send no representative. They are probably just dancing, cannibalizing and doing other primitive evil troll stuff. Saurfang debates internally whether this is honorable or not, but he cannot quite decide if burning a civilization to the ground is wrong. he needs time to contemplate, maybe a few days in a cold cell in stormwind would help him...



... Actually after reading what i just wrote, it honestly seems impossible to me for the horde to strike first, blizz would have to actively want to screw over their own lore to accommodate this bullshit

[Mehrunes]

How's the bandwagon? Or is it even a wagon? Bet you all had to find something else to make do with, as you all usually do when looking for something lore related to cry about.
You're absolutely silly, and we'll leave it at that.

And yet here you are, on the same site and in the same thread, pretending that people caring about the game (but not singing praise to Blizzard after they've served us with shit story after a shit story for 14 years) are silly. All the while you're complaining about people complaining. I bet you can't see us from your moral high ground

Hmm. Let me name few. Arthas. Darion Mograine. Genn Greymane.

Those three above have more deep and interesting stories (if we talking about Tragedy genre) than Sylvanas's anecdote.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.