Why Sethrak and Vulpera are Pointless Races and Shouldn't be playable.

[huth]

Doesn't automatically mean it's an argument for their introduction.

There's no real reason not to if there's interest, though. Blizzard went from 1 race per faction every second expansion to 4 confirmed races in a single one already. At this rate, they'll have to add a scroll bar to race selection before 11.0.

[Kralljin]

There's no real reason not to if there's interest, though. Blizzard went from 1 race per faction every second expansion to 4 confirmed races in a single one already.

All confirmed allied races are strongly based on an already playable race, which kinda hints that it's less work than to create a new race from scratch.
I still believe the term "allied race" was simply chosen because "sub races" doesn't fit for Nightborne / Void elves, as the "main race" belongs to another faction.

And the daily threads about this topic show how controversial Vulpera are, the only time we've had rather heated discussions about a new race were the Pandaren.
There the devs even said they didn't expect the backlash.

[huth]

All confirmed allied races are strongly based on an already playable race, which kinda hints that it's less work than to create a new race from scratch.
I still believe the term "allied race" was simply chosen because "sub races" doesn't fit for Nightborne / Void elves, as the "main race" belongs to another faction.

And the daily threads about this topic show how controversial Vulpera are, the only time we've had rather heated discussions about a new race were the Pandaren.
There the devs even said they didn't expect the backlash.

Well, Sethrak seem to be strongly based on Worgen.

Also, most of that "controversy" is just circlejerking with little basis in fact. Just as with Pandaren. Hardly anybody talks about those nowadays.

[hrafnblod]

I genuinely do not understand how people can make the "But they don't have lore like [race that also didn't have lore before it was introduced but now does]" arguments. The zone these guys feature in isn't even open in Alpha yet. We don't know how developed they are or aren't going to be yet, story-wise. We'd never met the Nightborne before either, but they were developed well. Saying "Well these other races are established so it's okay" as completely asinine when there was still a point, sometimes right up until they became playable, that they weren't actually that well established.

Vulpera and Sethrak are the same. We don't know anything yet. As we go into the expansion, we will learn about them. Whether they actually become playable is up in the air of course, but "We learn about the race and then get them to join our faction" is literally exactly what allied races are. That's why the ones we've had so far had questlines and reputations attached to them, ffs.

[Kralljin]

Well, Sethrak seem to be strongly based on Worgen.

It's more about the general idea of race and how it fits into lore.

Take Nightborne for example, they share an ancestry in the Night elves similiar to the blood elves, due that there is already something to go on, they're to a certain degree self explanatory because of that.
Similair thing applies to Highmountain Tauren, Lightforged Draenei, Zandalari and Dark Iron dwarves.

Throwing a race into the game "because we can and some people like it" really shouldn't be the approach to handle that, remember each time a new race was introduced they became a focal storytelling point, Blood elves & Draenei in BC, impact of the Worgen invasion still longer on to this day, Pandaren had a whole continent centered around them.

I mean let's be honest, Worgen are lorewise basically "cursed Gilneans" their lore doesn't focus around being once put asleep in the emerald dream, it's about Kingdom was torn was apart by civil war, suffered a curse that turned them into beasts and got evicted by the Horde out of their own lands.

Also, most of that "controversy" is just circlejerking with little basis in fact. Just as with Pandaren. Hardly anybody talks about those nowadays.

While the discussion can still contain facts, at it's core it is "I like vs. i don't like", it's pretty much an opinion thing.

Most people simply don't talk about Pandaren because there is no point in it, they are playable, the end, perhaps some people want to make their distate clear beforehand (when things are still on development) as criticism for the idea of Pandaren becoming playable was pretty much unheard before MoP.

[hrafnblod]

Most people simply don't talk about Pandaren because there is no point in it, they are playable, the end, perhaps some people want to make their distate clear beforehand (when things are still on development) as criticism for the idea of Pandaren becoming playable was pretty much unheard before MoP.

Yeah, that's not true at all dude. There was, and has been since, a vocal minority of people screaming their discontent about kung fu pandas and supposedly the mass influx of furries into the game even though no matter what races are introduced the vast majority of the player base still play elves and humans, while adding in some more variety for those who don't want to play elves/humans ultimately hurts no one.

[Kralljin]

Yeah, that's not true at all dude. There was, and has been since, a vocal minority of people screaming their discontent about kung fu pandas and supposedly the mass influx of furries into the game even though no matter what races are introduced the vast majority of the player base still play elves and humans, while adding in some more variety for those who don't want to play elves/humans ultimately hurts no one.

Haven't read those before MoP was announced to be honest, most threads seemed rather positive.
Until MoP was announced, then it exploded.

Also, claiming the other side is a "vocal minority" doesn't make it true.

[gaymer77]

1) It's ALLIED RACES not SUBRACES. Just because the first sets of races are reskins of a current race doesn't mean that they are SUBraces. Blizzard has stated during Blizzcon that they are to be ALLIED RACES and not SUBRACES.

2) Sethrak will never be a playable race no matter how much Alliance fanboys want it. Their models don't allow them to wear helms which prevents them from equipping the armor Blizzard has designed.

[Phuongvi]

Well I think they should add them because BaF will suck ass and leveling allied race will be the thing to do during BaF

[Pebble]

A lot of words to say "They're pointless because I don't like them."

Well... They're awesome because I like them.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

See that's your problem. You think this is Subraces. It's not, it's Allied Races. Totally different thing. This isn't about 50 Dwarf and Tauren offshoots, and High Elves. It's about a new "universal player skeleton" that allows player-quality races to be cranked out in much shorter time, and even NPC races to later be converted into new races. And the decision to have players unlock these races at the level cap, which further cuts dev time by turning a full 1-10 zone into just a quick unlocking scenario.

[Katsutomai]

Blizzard quite literally said ANYTHING with 2 legs were considered.

[GenericDragon]

2) Sethrak will never be a playable race no matter how much Alliance fanboys want it. Their models don't allow them to wear helms which prevents them from equipping the armor Blizzard has designed.

Considering all the clipping issues we already have in game with helms and tauren and draenai horns and tauren and worgen muzzles, this is a non-issue.

On topic - OP, your post is full of subjectivity, like many in the thread have said. I've been in favor of having Naga be a playable race for years, and have wanted them ever since vanilla. This stemmed from them having a few short campaigns in WCIII and I just love them.

They're probably not going to happen for a multitude of reasons, but Sethrak fit the bill quite nicely. Not the same, but I would be happy with them nonetheless. I personally want the lizardfolk aesthetic to be playable in this game, and honestly, the Sethrak (and Vulpera, in their own ways, as far as foxfolk go) are pretty fresh takes on the lizard/snakefolk trope. They seem to fit into the Warcraft world just fine to me, considering all of the other bestial races that are already in the world.

[Veluren]

2) Sethrak will never be a playable race no matter how much Alliance fanboys want it. Their models don't allow them to wear helms which prevents them from equipping the armor Blizzard has designed.

I'm reaaaaaaal tired of this excuse.

People on this forum have edited helms on Sethrak from every angle to show how they'd work. Not to mention if Blizz wanted to make them playable, they would make them work.

[SynDethroc]

Why would anyone want to play as a furry fox boy or Snake person

I think the real question is "Why WOULDN'T anyone wanna play as a furry fox boy or snake person". Vulpera? Adorable Lombax gypsies. Sethrak? Yuan-ti from D&D. Two very cool races. What's not to like??

[Merryck]

Your opinion is wrong because I disagree with it.

Give me my lightning snakes, I don't care about vulpera.. actually, get them away from me, they're disgusting.

[therealbowser]

I kind of feel that Allied race system isn't exactly what is. Instead of having Subraces that fits well within each race's identity within both the alliance and the horde like Mag'har Orcs, Kul'tiran Humans, Lightforged Draenei, and more. However blizzard seems to be adding in races that doesn't fit with the overall faction identity that is mainly being the Sethrak and Vulpera.

To me Sethrak and Vulpera are two of the most pointless races to have be playable within the World of Warcraft. You can say the same argument with Worgens, Pandarens, and Tauren. But here's the thing those 3 races were already within the Warcraft universe mainly being the Tauren and pandaren that made their first appearance in Warcraft 3 then comes the worgen which also made their appearance in classic/vanilla wow. Each of the 3 races have interesting backstories and even bit of good culture like Tauren/Native Americans, Worgens/British and Pandarens/Asian Culture. But with the likes of Sethrak and Vulpera they just feel out of no where with no backstory, less interesting culture and they feel like they don't fit the overall Warcraft universe.

Why would anyone want to play as a furry fox boy or Snake person where you could be playing as a Celtic Dwarf or Savage big Ogre, Cruel heartless Undead Human or Elf, Viking Human, Noble High Elf, Forest Troll, Snow Tauren like Taunka just whatever type of subrace that feels Warcraft that feels like a Fantasy RPG. Not something stupid and pointless like Fox people, Fish people, Snake people, and whatever type of stupid race that doesn't feel like Warcraft. Its bad enough the Alliance already got 2 sad excuse of allied races and kind of feel like the faction pride identity is dead at this point. If Vulpera joins the horde then what's the point in the Allied race system then

I really hope they don't become playable because if they do then World of Warcraft wouldn't be Warcraft. It'll just be another MMO Game that doesn't have the charm of a Fantasy RPG. If any fantasy race that would feel like Warcraft why not ask to play as a High Elf or a Wildhammer Dwarf, Ogre, Vrykul, Taunka, Dragonmaw, Furbolg, Fullmetal Gnomes, Junker Goblins, Fully Risen Undead, Satyr, whatever race that feels like Warcraft whatever subrace that fits with faction identity. Adding in Snake and Fox races doesn't feel like Warcraft.

It sounds like you are trying to nitpick issues and apply things that simply aren't happening.

Here are what I think are probably the unwritten rules for Allied races:

1. They must be something people will actually want to play, enough to warrant their creation even on these grounds. (And even if allied races are easy to add, it's still adding to the total races and that shouldn't taken lightly.)

2. They have to be at least somewhat lore friendly -- they have to be remotely possible, IE we're never getting Eredar as a playable race, period. Mag'har orcs aren't going to be on the Alliance. Etc.

3. They have to be able to have most of their animations copied from another race -- or multiple, in the case of Zandalari or Kul Tirans. Some exceptions can apply, but ~90% of the animations are going to already exist in some form. Likewise, they aren't going to completely neuter a new race just to make them work (IE, giving vrykul terribly fitting human animations).

4. I assume they are going to have some level of diversity in races, though this is a different play on #1: for instance, we already have dark iron dwarves, so I doubt we'll see Wildhammer dwarves, unfortunately.

5. A distant last point is that Blizzard seems to be trying to keep factions balanced. Void elves is likely trying to get people to play Alliance, though this may prove too effective in their case. Likewise, giving high elves has the very real risk to completely shatter the balance very heavily in the Alliance's favor, so they simply were not going to get the race because once Blizzard played that card, there is literally nothing they can do bar removing the race that could rebalance the factions if enough blood elves rerolled/transferred over.

(Please note that I have not mentioned "fits Warcraft's lore aesthetically" or "feels like Warcraft" to that degree. Because it does't matter. Warcraft's lore and fantasy is extremely open ended, and within very generous constraints, Blizzard can do whatever the hell they want and it will turn out fine. Faction identity went out the window in Vanilla when Alliance got night elves and Horde got undead. This isn't a bad thing, because it broadened their cultures. Adding new races doesn't hurt faction identity, it expands it. Once you get simple fact this through your head, these kinds of things become easier to understand.)

So then, let's cover some of your completely bogus racial examples case by case.

Sethrak: Would require new animations, do not have a female counterpart, would only appeal to a vocal minority at best. On top of that, they seem to hate everyone. They are not likely to be chosen.

Vulpera have direct ties to the Zandalari and would appeal to a very broad fanbase (yes, the furries), this means that their effort would not be wasted and if made playable, they would be relatively popular. This on top of the fact that Blizzard has been making a lot of effort in expanding their animations and customization hints that they are being considered as a playable race, and frankly, if this is true, it would fit just fine. Are they likely? I wouldn't say that, but possible? Absolutely.

(And I should add, that I get that you hate furries. I am not one myself, and frankly I really don't care for the vast majority of their fanbase. But this isn't about you or me, it's about what the players want and will play, and vulpera apply directly. If your argument is purely "I don't like them" then, well... get the hell over it, friend. It's okay to not like things, but you don't get to say "you can't play that, because I don't like it" and maintain any semblance of an argument.)

High elves are not going to happen. They have the very real risk of shattering faction balance, and once Blizzard played this card, there is virtually nothing they could do to get people back on the horde. Blood elves are the anchor of stability for faction balance. Void elves are even a little risky, but their controversial status at least hints that while popular, they will at least keep some sense of balance between factions and not attract too many blood elves. But I digress.

Wildhammer dwarves are not likely, sadly, since we already have dark iron dwarves. Unlike Dark Irons, their culture is not dramatically different from Ironforge to a casual player's view. The only way they could truly stand out are unique class choices, that being druids primarily. I do not see that happening, and even if it were considered, it wouldn't fully justify them over another race. It's not likely, though technically possible.

Vrykul would either require complete simplification of everything that makes them vrykul so that they could be dumbed down into an allied race package (other races do not have to do this, but vrykul are simply too different to be made into one and slapped on human animations), or an extreme amount of work akin to developing an entirely new race with the majority of their animations being brand new. In short, it just wouldn't work. Maybe they'll be a fully-fledged race someday.

Ogres are the same issue as vrykul. Unlike Vrykul, they do not even have a female model developed for them yet, which makes it even harder.

Taunka are a poor choice since they are not significantly different from tauren without substantial additions and new models, and we already have highmountain tauren. On top of that, they just wouldn't be popular even in place of highmountain. There's no way this would be a good idea.

Dragonmaw are a curious choice, but mag'har are a far more interesting alternative. Dragonmaw are basically orcs with pale skin and tattoos... there's very little that sets them apart, unlike the mag'har which is a ton of dramatically different clan identities. A bad choice.

Furbolgs would either utilized pandaren models -- which would look horrendous on them -- or require more work than deserve to be put into them. On top of this, the odds of them being played by more than even, say, 1% of the population is extremely low. Really bad choice.

Fullmetal gnomes Clockwork gnomes are actually a rather interesting choice. Unfortunately, as much as I like the concept, I fear they would be fairly unpopular and would not be an effective allied race. But I'd love to be proven wrong here! (While female models do not exist, it wouldn't be overly difficult to create them from female gnomes in this case.) Sadly, unlikely.

No idea what the hell 'junker goblins' are, lol. Nor do I know what you mean by 'fully risen undead'. Are you talking playable ghouls or something? Because that's just ridiculous. I'd rather not take wild guesses here.

Satyr are bad on so many levels. The only 'friendly' satyr that have ever appeared in lore were ones that regret their choices and wanted to become night elf again. And in those cases, succeeded, and were night elves again. Playable demons are never going to work, no one would accept them and frankly, satyrs have nothing to offer but betrayal. By far the worst suggestion listed here.

This is my two cents on this thread.

[Ielenia]

To me Sethrak and Vulpera are two of the most pointless races to have be playable within the World of Warcraft. You can say the same argument with Worgens, Pandarens, and Tauren. But here's the thing those 3 races were already within the Warcraft universe mainly being the Tauren and pandaren that made their first appearance in Warcraft 3 then comes the worgen which also made their appearance in classic/vanilla wow. Each of the 3 races have interesting backstories and even bit of good culture like Tauren/Native Americans, Worgens/British and Pandarens/Asian Culture. But with the likes of Sethrak and Vulpera they just feel out of no where with no backstory, less interesting culture and they feel like they don't fit the overall Warcraft universe.

This is kind of a moot argument to have. You're basically saying "these races are bad because they have no backstory", but guess what? None of the races in the game had any backstory before they were first introduced to the player. The current races have rich backstory now because as time progressed Blizzard expanded on their lore. You're basically denying the new races a chance just because they're being introduced now and not in the past. You're not giving them a chance to be improved upon.

Why would anyone want to play as a furry fox boy or Snake person where you could be playing as a Celtic Dwarf or Savage big Ogre, Cruel heartless Undead Human or Elf, Viking Human, Noble High Elf, Forest Troll, Snow Tauren like Taunka just whatever type of subrace that feels Warcraft that feels like a Fantasy RPG.

Maybe because they like anthropomorphic foxes or snakes, more than they like anthropomorphic pandas, cows and wolves? More than they like stunted humans, purple humans, pointy-eared humans, etc? Y'know, personal preferences? And those races belong in fantasy RPG just as any of the other races you mentioned. If bipedal cows belong in a fantasy RPG setting, why not bipedal foxes? And how do "snake person" do not belong in a fantasy RPG, considering WoW had freaking nagas since basically forever?

Not something stupid and pointless like Fox people, Fish people, Snake people, and whatever type of stupid race that doesn't feel like Warcraft.

In other words, "don't bring anything new"? Or perhaps "keep the lore stale and unchanging" would be more appropriate?

[gaymer77]

Considering all the clipping issues we already have in game with helms and tauren and draenai horns and tauren and worgen muzzles, this is a non-issue.

The horns on Draenei & Tauren stick through helms. Worgen don't have real issues with the muzzle. The Sethrak on the other hand have this massive hood from the snake-like look to them.

I'm reaaaaaaal tired of this excuse.

People on this forum have edited helms on Sethrak from every angle to show how they'd work. Not to mention if Blizz wanted to make them playable, they would make them work.

You mean THIS pic?


Or are you referring to the ones where people have made custom helms to fit their heads? Yeah if Blizzard wanted to make them playable they COULD make it happen but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. Not only would they have to make all BfA helms that are usable by them fit properly but they would have to go through every single helm in the game and make it fit onto them properly too since every single race in the game has a plate, cloth, mail, and leather user in them. That is literally EVERY SINGLE HELM IN THE GAME would have to be made to fit them properly. Would you rather Blizzard devote the resources to doing THAT or would you rather them devote resources on the expansion and a different race that would take less time & resources to be able to play?

[Hawkknight97]

The horns on Draenei & Tauren stick through helms. Worgen don't have real issues with the muzzle. The Sethrak on the other hand have this massive hood from the snake-like look to them.



You mean THIS pic?


Or are you referring to the ones where people have made custom helms to fit their heads? Yeah if Blizzard wanted to make them playable they COULD make it happen but the likelihood of that happening is slim to none. Not only would they have to make all BfA helms that are usable by them fit properly but they would have to go through every single helm in the game and make it fit onto them properly too since every single race in the game has a plate, cloth, mail, and leather user in them. That is literally EVERY SINGLE HELM IN THE GAME would have to be made to fit them properly. Would you rather Blizzard devote the resources to doing THAT or would you rather them devote resources on the expansion and a different race that would take less time & resources to be able to play?

Just by looking at this picture for the Sethrak wearing a single helm. Pretty much is the reason why Sethrak won't be playable.

Plus I would rather see them devote resources on the expansion and having a different allied/subrace than seeing a Snake person wearing a helm that makes them look really goofy and bit stupid.