Master Looter

[Torrasque]

In all honesty, I disagree with the video as well. I take many issues with Master Looting, and am glad that it's being removed. To me, and my experience it will make raiding much easier and far less over-dramatic. I'll have far less issues with loot councils stealing people's loot, and I'll generally enjoy raiding far more with the change that Blizzard is implementing.

[Thirtyrock]

Loot councils get to steer loot for the benefit of the raid group, overall. If a plate item drops and 3 different dps classes can use it, it may be BiS for one, and just an upgrade for the other two. Who should get it? If you care about the raid, you give it to the person for whom it is BiS.

There are downsides, but that right there is the upside, to my understanding. If you're not in a competitive guild, then it doesn't really matter either way, but if you're racing for world firsts, giving that bis to the right player matters.

[TheEaterofSouls]

maybe make heroic loot untradeable for the 1st month? Trying to think of a solution to split runs. Ban guilds who do split runs with more than 3 characters? Banning guilds who do above a certain number of split runs from getting a WF kill as cheating?

[Azelas]

Because high end raiders raid in a guild, and master loot, with the ability of gearing a raid to your choosing, gives a sense of accomplishment as a guild, and not as an individual who got blessed by fucking RNG and got a random chest piece which isn't even good for you, but you can't trade because it's 5 item levels higher than your current piece.

Progressing through mythic content is much more than just showing up to raid.

And if you think fucking Master Loot will make it so more guilds compete with Method, then you are absolutely delusional. Method will just run 4 Hunters on each Hunter, and use the one that gets the best loot, or some shit of the sort. Blizzard (and you) are trying to solve a "problem" with ways they will always find loopholes to. Stop trying. And above ALL, stop screwing the rest of us because you want 5 guilds to stop split running raids.

My real question is: why do non-mythic raiders want to remove master loot so much? If you don't like it don't use it, let the rest of us have our master loot.

[Goldielocks]

Top two replies just make it clear to me that you play the game with a my victory > team's victory mindset. That's why you can't understand how people are upset by this change.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

[Rendark]

Why do you care so much if people do split runs? It's a fucking game. If people want to burn out doing them just to try for world first then that's there choice.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Why do you care so much if people do split runs? It's a fucking game. If people want to burn out doing them just to try for world first then that's there choice.

Don't you want more new WF guilds? Aren't you tired of Method and Exorsus being the only ones? And guilds dropping left and right?

[Basileus]

The playing field has always been fair. If guilds wanted to devote more time to hardcore raiding, split runs was an essential piece of that. This only spits in the face of those very high-end players and it's just a silly thing to remove.

I understand people have had loot ninja'd from them, but with the changes to ML in the beginning of Legion (needing 80% guild group), you kind of fucked yourself if you went into those groups and got ninja'd.

Limiting the options for guilds to control the way they want loot distributed is just...stupid.

[Tethyson]

Why do casual players get so offended by the idea of more accomplished guilds doing split runs? What’s wrong with it? Is it upsetting that the more skilled players gear up faster than you? In almost all cases, casual guilds and casual raiders are relatively over geared for the content that they encounter. Master looting is a system that gives a guild control over the loot it receives as a guild. One player doesn’t kill a boss. The guild kills the boss. The loot from the boss should be able to be directed how the guild chooses. Not just based on luck or on one player. An excellent example is the Aman’Thuls legendary trinket. It’s an extremely valuable trinket to a lot of classes. But not all of them. Some classes wouldn’t use it over the legendary pantheon trinket. But it’s based on personal loot and it is extremely rare. In all of the cases that I have seen, only casual players joining a normal/heroic run or someone’s alt has received the trinket. Which makes it USELESS to the guild. It’s a horrible way of distributing loot. Raiding is a group effort. And the rewards should be given to the group, not to individuals. Individuals don’t kill bosses.

[Rendark]

Don't you want some new guilds to participate on methods level besides Exorsus?

I couldn't care less about the world race.

[Ealyssa]

Because it doesn't solve any issues. Sure you'll have less split runs. But you now will have multiple alts of the same spec/role you'll run into HC and play the best geared in mythic.

Doesn't solve any issue
Removes optimisation of the hands of a lot of guilds

Bad idea, simple as that.

[Multitorix Davlen]

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

See, what Method or any of the top 10 guild does is so far in the extreme of what is expected that its not a realistic argument for the rest of the game. A lot of their mindset and what their goals are cannot be indicative of the rest of the player base. What should be an expectation is what you experience in your own skill bracket and rankings of your server. I.E. dont worry about the guy in the fast lane, worry about keeping your eyes on your lane. The reason Method is so high up there is because they want to be up there and will do the most efficient and the most extreme to guarantee it. If every other guild did the same, there certainly would be more competition, Exorsus proved that when they beat them out a few times. But its so exhausting and unrewarding that its unsustainable to keep doing that, i.e. again Exorsus and other guilds prove it when they said theyre dropping from the race to go more casual.

[Utigarde]

I mean, I'd be 100% fine with personal loot being standard if they allowed bonus roll loot to be traded.

[Schizoide]

You can still trade personal looted items with other players in the same raid, right? So they'll just tell you to do that. If you refuse, you get the boot.

[GreenJesus]

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

Who cares about guilds like method? The game shouldn't be designed around them. Method is a group of 25-30 people when the game has millions of players and a couple hundred thousand mythic raiders. The only obstacle to doing the WF race is spending like 20 hours a day (lul) on launch week of the raid. Regardless of loot ruless no one can compete with a guild that does that.

[Osiria]

Asmongold. Don't even need to watch the video to know what is coming. lol

Anyway.

If your raiding group is a typical kind of group, where you simply roll and reward people based on rolls and who needs an item, you won't be affect at all by that (we could discuss drop rates, but that's another story).

But if you're a RL in one of these groups that try to exploit as many characters as possible to benefit from more loot, then you're going to get pissed.

There's also those raiding groups where you must raid with them like a dozen times before the RL and friends decide now you deserve to get something, even if you're above in DPS or something compared to the others. Oh, this kind of RL will get very, very angry at the change.

It's a good thing it's going away. People can still trade stuff they don't need. It's no issue at all unless you're one of these who want to control loot and take it for yourself or your buddies. If someone is not doing their job, you can simply kick them. You're not forced to carry, nor to accept anyone. You're only forced not to intrude into other people's "rights" over loot dropping from a boss they've helped to kill.

[Feronar]

I personally do not like the idea of forced PL in guild runs. In pugs it's great, but not in guilds.

One of the many problems with forced PL in guild runs is that it will encourage armor type stacking, and if Azerite raid gear is class specific, it will also encourage class stacking. If there are 6 plate wearers, 5 mail wearers, 7 leather wearers, and 1 cloth wearer, that cloth wearer will be severely disadvantaged by not being able to trade with other cloth wearers, whereas ML or Nb4G encourages more even armor type or class distribution.

[Basileus]

If they intend to remove ML, they should remove the trading requirement for it to not be an upgrade. But if they do that, split runs will continue to be a thing, we'll just see groups doing 20 druid clears, 20 pally clears, etc.

[Swampmoose]

Method is like the only guild that requires 5+ characters per player. Banning that kind of behavior seems reasonable. Anything to make the playing field more fair. Maybe we'd see more new blood.

The issue with split raiding isnt how fast a raid is cleared, it's how unfair it is to new potential WF raiders.

And if they change loot to where 5 characters isn't enough, they'll all have 10 chars. Their success has nothing to do with loot distribution. It has everything to do with skill, effort, and commitment to remaining 1st. Stop pretending that randos are going to have a shot at world firsts because of loot changes.