Maryland School Shooter stopped by hero with gun

[Mayia]

Guns will never go away, the threat will only get worse, so question isn't "do we ban guns" that discussion is well and truly over its pointless and wouldn't work in the US.
So the real question begins with how do we mitigate this issue is arming teachers a viable option, should schools have security guards? it could at least create more work.

But the question of should we ban guns is well and truly past anyone pressing the issue is living in the past and you can ignore them and try to figure out reasonable mitigation methods with all the sane people, I think a good half way method is to arm teachers with stun guns as well as looking at making class room doors easier to lock and keep others out of when needed, just some more bullet proof material in the doors could help.

But i'm not sure we are all ready to arm every teacher with a real firearm, but i'd be more comfortable with teachers having stun guns locked in classrooms and elsewhere.

Heck maybe its more cost effective to hire snipers to watch schools and take out targets who open fire as soon as they are noticed, but i don't see an easy fix for these situations.

Rock music, Video games, pet rocks, and polar bears are all blamed for angry teenagers with guns at one point or another, but we can see a time before rock music and video games people were still happily murdering people perhaps pet rocks is the connecting factor! but i doubt it and i don't think we'll ever find out exactly why some people decide murdering a bunch of people is a good idea.

[Swalload]

All im saying is that "if you give a gun to EVERYONE, it's bound to fall on the wrong hands"

Solution: Dont give guns to everyone

You are literally giving guns to kids. Cant you see how bad this is?

"literally giving guns to kids" means going out in the street, pulling a gun out of your pocket and giving it to a kid playing in a park.

That situation obviously does not happen, I refuse to think that you believe it does.

Even in the least strict gun shop they will still require official identification before you can buy a gun, there is a restricted age which I agree is too low. But like, can we have a mature conversation without making it seem like the NRA is handing out guns with candies, it's nowhere near like that lol.

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Kind of like having strict drug laws has prevented drugs from being used in America.....

Exactly, it helps, but doesn't solve the problem at all.

[Heladys]

Honestly, i'm glad the Officer did something. Now, we just have to move on.

Sure beats the established trend of officers cowering outside and pissing themselves.

[zEmini]

While I might agree with some of this, there is no way the government could really afford buying back every gun - and that also includes the administrative cost of running the program. Not to mention the strong resistance of people would just say no and the blood shed that would follow after. It would basically bankrupt the US imo. I also don't think we should be punishing responsible 99.9% gun owners.

And the whole "Government has airplanes and nukes" argument has been debunked. We are assuming that the government will have complete control over their military if such a thing happens. So unless the US just decides to destroy their own country with nukes, I don't see it being that easy. Don't forget about foreign invaders.

Best solution is to let people keep their guns but every gun in existence has to be registered. I don't understand the loopholes and I don't know why they even exist. Doens't matter if it is a shotgun or a AR15, or bought from a red neck in a truck or a licensed dealer - if you have a gun asset under your ownership, it must be licensed and registered. Then we triple or quadruple down on illegal gun crimes and enforce the laws already in the books.

[Hilhen7]

And the whole "Government has airplanes and nukes" argument has been debunked. We are assuming that the government will have complete control over their military if such a thing happens. So unless the US just decides to destroy their own country with nukes, I don't see it being that easy. Don't forget about foreign invaders.

Why would they need nukes? Your AR-15 isn't going to stop drone strikes or an armored division.

[zEmini]

Why would they need nukes? Your AR-15 isn't going to stop drone strikes or an armored division.

In a straight up fight? The militia will not be fighting like it was during the First Civil War.

[Deleted]

Now hear this (fake numbers just for the sake of the example): 100 million responsible gun owners lose the guns they owned for several years, they did nothing wrong, they are mentally stable and never would have done anything wrong. The total amount of death per year changed from 1000 to 1000. That's right, removing guns from people who would have never done anything wrong and are responsible for making sure it stays in a safe place does not change the amount of people killed per year because all these millions of guns are never put in a situation where they can be used to kill someone.

You presented a made up scenario to prove a point...what can i get from this?
That it's your opinion that if we remove guns the total amount of deaths would be the same.
Ok...but i disagree.
There would be less deaths IMO. At least it works in my country.

Making it harder for people to acquire guns can effectively reduce the amount of death per year. Removing guns that are not in a dangerous space cannot possibly make any change since they would never be used for that in the first place.

But you never know how crazy a person is!
People are stupid by majority.
How do you know for sure a person wont use a gun for bad? Its impossible to know. We never know.
Its better if we dont take the risk of giving guns to people.
Again, if we give guns to everyone, its bound to fall in the wrong hands.

You should go to a shooting range, at least once. You don't even need to shoot, you can if you want. But just look at people, they are having fun shooting at targets, they're not putting anyone in danger. Why would you have a problem with that? Are you constantly imagining a situation where a crazy person breaks into a gun owner's house to get a gun and then go shoot a school? Is that what is constantly going on in your head to make you think that all guns on earth need to disappear?

Please, dont try to change my view on guns in a "brainwashy" kind of way.
I will NEVER see guns as toys and objects to have fun.
My culture teaches me guns are bad. They are serious. Its not a laughing matter.
Never will i see a gun as an object for "fun".

Also take a minute or 10 or 60 or 3 days to think very carefully about what nation wide gun confiscation really means.
It means the government has to announce a decision to do this officially.
It means people will see this as a tyrannical government, so according to the 2A they have the right to fight against it and use firepower if needed.
It means people can go out in the street and pretty much shoot at anyone threatening their 2A rights.
So the government will need to hire (and equip with guns) tons of people to go knock on doors to literally steal law abiding citizen's properties. These people hired won't be pro-gun because they wouldn't participate in something they are against. However the anti-gun people who would be most likely willing to be part of that are indeed AGAINST guns, which means they never shot a gun before, have no training whatsoever, so their chances of getting shot by a pro-gun person practicing his 2A right are pretty high. Lots of people will die.

So now the planned situation splits into 2, do you really want people with shit training and no motivation to use a gun go out and get killed while trying o take away the guns of law abiding citizens, or as a government do you get your military out in the street to straight up attack people in their home ot take their guns?

People will fight back, people will die, it will be a fucking shitshow, the entire planet will look at it in disgust.

You think the country will go to war if the government remove guns?
Well...what a crazy world you live in.
Crazy country if that holds to be true

In the end people will still be divided, still have murderous tendencies, still kill others with illegal or smuggled guns or with something else. Imagine if people just start making homemade bombs.

I hate that argument "NRA: if we dont sell guns, people will find other ways to get them"

That is not true.
Not every citizen has access to the black market.
I am a nerd, i dont come from the "hood"
I have no idea how to discover the blackmarket of guns nor shall any other nerd or normal citizen.

At least this way less people will have guns.

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Even in the least strict gun shop they will still require official identification before you can buy a gun, there is a restricted age which I agree is too low. But like, can we have a mature conversation without making it seem like the NRA is handing out guns with candies, it's nowhere near like that lol.
.

Then how did this 17 year old kid get access to a gun?

[Najnaj]

I'm not even American, this is not personnal for me, I'm just being 100% neutral here.

You do know that the amount of people who actually walk around with guns is really, really, really small, right? Most pro-gun states don't even allow conceal carry or you need a really special permit for that.

There's still a lot more deaths due to car accident than guns. But the media who wants you to think guns are the most evil thing in the world enjoy taking their car to their corrupted job, so they won't tell you that. Also, contrary to guns, car actually DO kill people. That's right, self driving cars have taken lives, by accident of course, but that's what the definition of "an object kills people" really is. Guns don't kill people, self-driving cars do, that's a fact, just one you won't hear from biased news media.

Let me ask you this question: do you have a problem with knowing that a guy who will never do anything bad is owning/using a gun to hunt or at a shooting range?

Yeah, you really come across as neutral...lol. Also, if people take their car to buy heroin and cars kill more people than heroin, should we sell it in Walmart?

[AlphaOut]

First of all, guns are not toys!
Nor should they be used to "have fun".

Guns are serious.

You are brainswashed to see guns as toys. THEY ARE NOT.



"this people dont deserve to "suffer" (lol) just because you dream of a better world"

Suffer?
What kind of suffering does the person losing a gun in their hands take? Its not a toy.
Your culture is messed up.

There is a "greater good" by removing guns. The greater good of a peaceful world.
If not completely peaceful...it will at least be a little more peaceful than 17 school shootings from January to March

You are aware that number is insanely skewed, right? While I believe that even 1 shooting is too many, don't use inflated numbers to try and prove a point. From a technical point you may be correct, but it's interpreted as violent shootings. There's been far less than that, and a handful were drivebys from some random person shooting towards a school. Suicides on school grounds are in there. And after hour discharges are also in that number.

[muto]

No, of course not. You have to take them away.

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Where did I say that?

Good luck with that. That would be Civil War.

[Derpules]

Uhm, no.

Uhm, yes? It was directed towards forum members who think striking down down the 2nd amendment would make the violence stop.

It's the morons who say "making them illegal" won't work who think it's going to be an overnight thing.

That doesn't make much sense. You're saying the people with guns are afraid it will happen over night, as if they wouldn't resist and draw it out as long as possible

No one with a functional brain thinks it will eliminate guns instantly disappear;

I agree!

that's the weak ass argument of the NRA nutjobs.

Disagree. That's the opinion of people who have never been shot at/used firearms sitting safely at their computers who think it's as simple as knocking on the door and asking them to turn in their weapons. As if that scenario wouldn't pander to their whole fear of 'government coming to take our guns'.

EDIT:

It would take years, trillions of dollars, and thousands of deaths. It might also spark a civil war... Wars have started from less.

This. Guns in American is like pandoras box being opened. Sure, hope remains, but you can't put them back in the box unless the price is steep...

[muto]

Why would they need nukes? Your AR-15 isn't going to stop drone strikes or an armored division.

Just because one side has nicer toys doesn't mean they will win. Look at Vietnam War for example.

[Zeta333]

Of course you can or at least most of them. Not all at once, clearly but you can work on it.
Thing is, your goverment is not even allowed to put funds into research about the subject.

No you cant, armchair experts like you just saying it can happen doesnt mean it can or will happen, politics aside.

[Findlyn]

Oh boy! Now for the next predictable stage where you play the pedant and try to pick apart verbiage and definitions to prove, "Lefties don't know about guns!" or whatever Tomi Lahren inspired strategy you're on this week.

But anyway, pretty much every legal definition of an assault weapon covers the AR-15 and similar weapons, just as an example.

and as the assault weapon ban that we have already had from 1994-2004, this did nothing to curb gun violence. L2History

[Swalload]

You presented a made up scenario to prove a point...what can i get from this?
That it's your opinion that if we remove guns the total amount of deaths would be the same.
Ok...but i disagree.
There would be less deaths IMO. At least it works in my country.

Your country doesn't have the 2A, doesn't have the same culture, doesn't have the same problems and mentality and point of view, each country work differently, what works in one may not work in another, we don't all wake up with the same basis.

But you never know how crazy a person is!
People are stupid by majority.
How do you know for sure a person wont use a gun for bad? Its impossible to know. We never know.
Its better if we dont take the risk of giving guns to people.
Again, if we give guns to everyone, its bound to fall in the wrong hands.

If you never know how crazy a person is, you also don't know how stupid a person is, so generalizing the majority as being stupid and excluding you is pretty backward thinking.
First of all they are not giving guns to EVERYONE like you say, stop saying that, it's not true.
Secondly, the US is far beyond the point of deciding if people should get guns or not, the concept of taking away people's property just because YOU think it would make a dream world and in the process ENTIRELY DISREGARD any consequences that could come with is is completely delusion. I told you to think about this subject longer. Not because you are against it, but based on your answers it shows the fact that you have not thought this through at all.

Please, dont try to change my view on guns in a "brainwashy" kind of way.
I will NEVER see guns as toys and objects to have fun.
My culture teaches me guns are bad. They are serious. Its not a laughing matter.
Never will i see a gun as an object for "fun".

People right now are able to have fun with guns without hurting anyone. It's a fact of life, it happens in basically every country, it's just a fact. It's not my opinion, I'm not trying to change your view, I'm just informing you on what is happening right now as we are having this discussion. Your only option is to understand it, you're supposed to read this and say "yeah it's true that it's possible to have fun with gnus without hurting other" simply because it's factually happening right now.
You can still be against guns, that's your stand and it's fine, but don't say it's impossible to have fun with them or use them as toys, because that's a lie, just don't say that. (and by toy I don't mean put it in the toy box with your legos and GI Joe's, I'm just saying it's possible to have fun in a controled way just like a dirt bike, you won't play with it in your living room, I'm sure you can understand what I mean)

You think the country will go to war if the government remove guns?
Well...what a crazy world you live in.
Crazy country if that holds to be true

It's a very strong possibility yes, think of any rights that you really enjoy in your country, now imagine it's being taken away from you when you did absolutely nothing wrong. I'm sure you won't be happy about it. Also, this goes back to the cultural differences I mentioned in the first point, we don't live the same life and don't even see life the same way, you can't really just go around and judge other cultures only based on yours, you're not morally superior to anyone.
Also it's not my country, I'm not American in any way, I'm just open minded enough to inform myself about both sides of the argument without completely disregarding why one would like to keep their guns.

I hate that argument that "NRA: if we dont sell guns, people will find other ways to get them"

That is not true.
Not every citizen has access to the black market.
I am a nerd, i dont come from the "hood"
I have no idea how to discover the blackmarket of guns nor shall any other nerd or normal citizen.

At least this way less people will have guns.

Criminals have been using nerds to create darkweb communication pathways since the invention of the internet basically.
I'm not saying you should know how to get illegal weapons, and neither should I. Why? Because we don't want to and don't need to.
That being said, drugs are also illegal. Yet, they are everywhere. It would certainly be a bit harder for guns to be that accessible mainly because of the size, but handguns can be very easily smuggled. Right now in the US people are getting illegal guns because they have a criminal record so in many states they can't legally buy a gun. If all guns are taken away, it means there will be a bigger demand for illegal gun trafficking, which means it will be easier for criminals to get their hands on illegal guns than it is right now.
That's not an opinion, it's an educated guess. It doesn't say anything about my stance on gun, I'm just stating facts. All I'm saying is, the utopia people are hoping for cannot and will not exist. Better gun control can help and should be done, but it won't solve the problem, since the problem doesn't come from guns. The problem is not people dying (that's just a consequence of the real issue), the problem is people wanting to kill others. If you fix THAT problem then everything caused by it will inevitably vanish as well.

Less people having guns doesn't magically solve everything. Brazil has less guns per inhabitant but they have a much higher homicide rate. Their country and culture and society are very different, again that subject coming up, I know I'm repeating myself but it's very important. Right now the US has enough gun to harm everyone and there's still spares. Yet not everyone is killing each other, according to your logic, the entire country should have murdered itself. There's more smart and responsible people than you think. Your opinion of a country you don't know is literally based on social media where you get your biased information. Go inform yourself, read about pro-gun stuff, not to become pro-gun yourself, just to see their points and realize that what some of things the anti-gun people are saying is insane bullshit. I'M NOT SAYING EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS BULLSHIT. I'm saying some of it is, some of the pro-gun arguments are also bullshit, but some make sense as well. Gotta analyze everything, pick the good, leave the bad, educate yourself and see the issue in a completely different culture than yours.

For a start, search Steven Crowder on youtube and watch the "I'm pro gun, change my mind" videos. I'm not pro-gun, not a Steven Crowder fan, not everything he says is entirely right, but he brings good points too that are worth listening to. And guess what, we're not all fucking enemies, it's possible to sit and talk and learn, so why not do it instead of plugging our ears and trying to yell louder than the others like fucking morons?

[Findlyn]

Most school shootings involve drugs and gangs, eh? Care to link a source on that? Never seen any report on that.

I thought this was about stopping gun violence. I mean if you want to focus on a fraction of a percent, that's on you. But if you want effective gun control debate to combat gun violence, maybe you should focus on the major issues at large instead of knee jerk reactions that solve nothing. But hey, spend another 20 years chasing your proverbial tail because you cant learn history.

[Huulo]

Yeah but you can't get rid of guns that's the problem.

Australia successfully banned firearms. The US could do the same, or at least make them more difficult to acquire/require background checks.

[Deleted]

Thread should be closed

[Swalload]

Yeah, you really come across as neutral...lol. Also, if people take their car to buy heroin and cars kill more people than heroin, should we sell it in Walmart?

Well I'm playing devil's advocate, everyone here is going nuts with their uneducated opinions and thinking it's possible to make all guns disappear in an entire country without any consequences. I'm just very slightly pulling towards the middle in the hope that the few people willing to learn take the leap to see the other side just to stop having very stupid arguments like "gun can move on their own and shoot at kids". Not trying to make people go pro-gun, I'm not even pro-gun, I'm just not stupid enough to think gun confiscation could ever be a good idea. I don't come across as neutral to people who are not open to hear the other side's argument, to anyone slightly open minded I come across as someone trying to show the opposite side to a group of people hellbent on a point of view without knowing what's going on over the fence.

[Shadowferal]

hmf...it seems that whenever someone doesn't stop a potential massacre by shooting the would-be murderer...it's "omg, why didn't someone stop him/her..." Now we get just that...now what?