Master Looter

[HuxNeva]

This change removes some minor loot abuse problems and introduces more RNG. Bad trade off IMO.

I think 'it depends'. Most certainly from a perfect loot council run guild you are right. But for a lot of the other guilds out there a potential reduction in 'drama' could be worth it.

[agittunc]

It eliminates nothing but choice. There is simply nothing positive about this for the players.
For Blizzard there might be as you'll have to spend more time doing the content if your guild happens to be unlucky and that might mean you'll be subbed for longer but the end result is a game that is less fun to play.

not to mention it will also slow down progress for some guilds which they wanted only for 1% off the playerbase. the 99% in that case is rotting. which is counter productive to say it softly.

[Aggrophobic]

The only shit that this creates is that it makes 20 people distributing loot instead of 1 (or council), which is such a shitty change considering that it will cause more drama than you think.

As for split runs, just let ML be only in mythic??

But no one cares about splits. Blizzard themselves said that so few players actually do splits that it's not worth changing the game just for them. They are doing the absolute opposite here by ruining the raiding experience for a large amount of people.

[HuxNeva]

Why do you even play a multiplayer game then?

Well there is a bit more to multiplayer than 'loot'. People that like multiplayer games can have different opinions on this depending on their angle and context. It's basically a trade-off between RNG and Drama.

[Aggrophobic]

not to mention it will also slow down progress for some guilds which they wanted only for 1% off the playerbase. the 99% in that case is rotting. which is counter productive to say it softly.

Indeed. Luck will determine how fast you'll kill a boss now, more than befor.
The game does not need more RNG, it needs less.

[Torrasque]

maybe because people keep making posts that don't make sense? like you saying because they remove some RNG aspects that justifies removing master loot. when my point is how actual raiding guilds use it? which you completely ignored.

Yet you completely ignore the facts stating that you won't need Master Looter for the changes that are already on Alpha. As I mentioned, flat out ignoring them doesn't make them vanish.

i have been in many guilds not facing these issues. are you talking about your own experiences? because i haven't been in such a situation for 3 years now. so not up to me to say. and like i said its a guild thing.

We aren't talking about the past, we are talking about the future. This is a change that will happen in the future, after all. It isn't relevant to the past because loot in the past is different than how it is and will be handled in BFA. What about loot being different do you not understand?

like i said, thats the players issue for not knowing anything before going in. because i haven't had this issue because i know what i will get myself into before going in. 80% off the playerbase that get "scammed" are from people not reading their rules. simple.

No, it can be changed AT ANY TIME by anyone who has the ability to change it, which even that can change. That is the issue, it means that you can absolutely never trust a loot council not to be biased. It also means that whoever is in charge of loot can be usurped or replaced.

how am i ignoring facts? i bring my opinion and you come with facts. and my logic is flawed he said. you honestly are hypocritical. when i say that it should be a STEPPING STONE for normal/heroic and not dictate progress is something you keep IGNORING. so i'll rest my case and not keep playing your game.

You're ignoring how loot will be handled and how it will factually be in BFA. You've literally ignored absolutely everything that I've said about it.

i don't think you learned blizzard's mistake on secondary stats when it always wasn't that important in the beginning of an expansion and it always turns out that it is needed. people will go through hell to get dps increases and here you are trying to justify rng to master loot. like i said you are hypocritical. when i bring my perspective and you try to bring up facts? do you even read before you are posting?

the removal of RNG aspects should not dictate how master loot should be removed or not. period. it's something completely diffrent and the aspects of RNG that you mentioned should never have been introduced anyway. masterloot has been a feature since vanilla. so stop comparing it.

How is it hypocritical when someone else controls it? I have never, ever in this thread compared current master loot to Vanilla. I have only been comparing it to how it currently is on ALPHA BFA and what Ion, himself, has said about it in interviews. Where the actual fuck are you pulling your fake facts from?

taking a piece of my post and saying that i don't read is stupid. im not gonna say more into that.

You're literally hemorrhaging flat out LIES, you're misrepsenting what I've said, and you're flat out completely fucking WRONG about my own posts. You're so hilariously spinning your wheels that you possibly are quoting the wrong person. Now THAT is fucking stupid.

You know why? Because that mean that you either can't fucking read, or too stupid to quote the right person. Now tell me, can you even tell me what my points are? I bet you can't from how you've been sputtering your bullshit.

no but you wanna bring up how much better personal loot is in comparison to master loot. and my opinion is that YES it is in a individual player's standpoint but not a guild's standpoint. saying that i cant read is again hypocritical if you cant read my context into a post.

Wrong, AGAIN. I never said that, and you're just making up bullshit, yet again. I said that Master Looter is redundant in Alpha with how loot is changing and how it will be handled. Master Looter would no longer serve a purpose because there new and changing elements to loot that make it obsolete.

you are honestly a hypocrite. i stand on my opinion. respect my opinion. don't just go around force your opinion into other people's throats.

Your "Opinion" is nothing but your feelings on the matter, you haven't mentioned a single fact to suppose your claim. Because of that, I can't be a hypocrite, because all I've done is tell you the facts about what is currently on alpha, and what has been posted by the devs, themselves. My point isn't opinion, it's flat out fact. You simply brought feelings to a fucking fact fight.

and again. i am not trying to be a dick here. but the way you wanna go on a debate seriously is annoying. when you keep bringing shit up that has nothing to do with masterloot.

This isn't a debate, you haven't brought ANYTHING to the table here to attempt to prove a point other than "I don't like it, and I'm not going to state why other than "Feelings,"" It's fucking pathetic.

[Aggrophobic]

Well there is a bit more to multiplayer than 'loot'. People that like multiplayer games can have different opinions on this depending on their angle and context. It's basically a trad-off between RNG and Drama.

No, there isn't. You always have the option to join a guild or group that uses personal loot. If there is drama, it's your own fault. Punishing everyone else becuase you're a drama queen is hardly a good idea.

With both ML and PL everyones happy. With just PL you'll ruin raiding for a large amount of people.

[Djuntas]

They obviously did this to combat the raiding fatigue at a higher level. Can't see why this is a bad thing. From my POV, they, the 1%, always said burnout is real from playing all the silly alts etc.

Raiding shouldn't have to take 50-100 hours a week just because of game mechanics. This ain't vanilla anymore.

[Deleted]

Do we really need another thread discussing personal/master loot? We have like 4-5 already at this point:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Master-Looter
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...moving-forward
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...t-being-purged
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...MORE-elitists!

[valky94]

forced PL in premade (guild) groups is just stupid, for example, a cloth item drops for a priest that is bis for a warlock, guess what, he cant trade it to the warlock because it is higher ilvl but has worse stats, so yea, thats a wasted loot drop, if that same item dropped in ML, the raid leader/loot council can just give it to the warlock(s) and everything is fine

[Deleted]

That's Blizzard for you. Instead of adding on top of an exisiting system, they remove choice and force the only choice down our throats.

Personal loot in LFG/LFR I can understand, removes loot drama and ninjaing. But it also royally fucked up transmog farmers.

We use loot council. Loot gets distributed fairly. Just let us keep the options that we already have.

[ausmara]

fuck yourself. learn to play a game and progress through it like an actual gamer. fuck the people want everything get spooned those things.
\[/B]

lol you lost

[Az0na]

1 point is nonsense. You can trade loot received from perosnal loot with others eligible for loot. So your example of warrior get item twice can just trade it anyway so point 1 invalid.

For the rest what ever nonsense.

1: Personal loot = no drama
2: No waste of time on loot distrubution = time saved
2: If you got all main spec gear you can set on other spec for you to gear up = more people keep raiding because they can still get something from it. Also people can do other roles and actual have gear for it.
4: personal loot still tradable as tier sets gone you can basicly trade with anyone use same gear typ.

So far I do not see any downside for personal loot.

[agittunc]

lol you lost

lel no context from that form another post you didnt include

- - - Updated - - -

1 point is nonsense. You can trade loot received from perosnal loot with others eligible for loot. So your example of warrior get item twice can just trade it anyway so point 1 invalid.

For the rest what ever nonsense.

1: Personal loot = no drama
2: No waste of time on loot distrubution = time saved
2: If you got all main spec gear you can set on other spec for you to gear up = more people keep raiding because they can still get something from it. Also people can do other roles and actual have gear for it.
4: personal loot still tradable as tier sets gone you can basicly trade with anyone use same gear typ.

So far I do not see any downside for personal loot.

then you clearly didnt read anything my friend
no you cant. if the received item is higher you cant. you misread

[ausmara]

This is a dumb topic that's been beaten to death, there's your context. You're telling people to learn to play, you need to learn to play the game as presented. End of.

[Deleted]

Asmongold. Don't even need to watch the video to know what is coming. lol

Anyway.

If your raiding group is a typical kind of group, where you simply roll and reward people based on rolls and who needs an item, you won't be affect at all by that (we could discuss drop rates, but that's another story).

But if you're a RL in one of these groups that try to exploit as many characters as possible to benefit from more loot, then you're going to get pissed.

There's also those raiding groups where you must raid with them like a dozen times before the RL and friends decide now you deserve to get something, even if you're above in DPS or something compared to the others. Oh, this kind of RL will get very, very angry at the change.

It's a good thing it's going away. People can still trade stuff they don't need. It's no issue at all unless you're one of these who want to control loot and take it for yourself or your buddies. If someone is not doing their job, you can simply kick them. You're not forced to carry, nor to accept anyone. You're only forced not to intrude into other people's "rights" over loot dropping from a boss they've helped to kill.

Seems like you've never raided in any sort of comptetent guild before to be honest. You completely missed out on the vast majority of raid leaders who have the best interest of their guild's progress in mind. Giving loot to a trial or someone who just joined the guild is usually bad for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to the fact that you don't know how long they'll stay in the guild, and if they do decide to jump ship early or their performance changes drastically, you won't have wasted loot. Someone who has been in the guild for more than a tier and is reliable is a far safer bet for loot. Not to mention that loot benefits DPS far more during progress, and some DPS classes just get more utility out of it than others. Not to mention that if for example you know one of your raiders is going on holiday for a few weeks, it makes sense to prioritize other people for loot as they'll also get more utility out of it.

Put simply, it gives guilds with a competent loot council more freedom to optimize and control over how gear is distributed, which is a fun part of raid progression. If you're in a guild with a malicious raid leader that hands out loot poorly, chances are the guild isn't very good, nor progressing quickly, and you should find a new guild.

[Torrasque]

fuck off. honestly this is just hypocritical and you shouldnt play any game if this is how your mindset is.

fuck yourself. learn to play a game and progress through it like an actual gamer. fuck the people want everything get spooned those things.

Before you start with : he / he are stupid and bad etc. remmember these are their OPINIONS. and there is no problem with voicing them. to you who say that. grow up.[/B]

This is hilariously fucking pathetic and desperate. Hardlines that he's open to opinions, but in the same bitchy, whiny post he tells anyone that disagrees with him to fuck off, L2P, and all sorts of other toxic bullshit.

How about you shove your hypocritical bullshit copy/pasta post from other toxic threads up your ass before you shove you opinion down other people's throats.

[Trumpcat]

Because:

Team > individuals.

With Master Loot gear can be distributed smartly and fairly, also proportionately. Otherwise it's RNG in full control and RNG is neither smart, nor fair, nor proportinate, it's RNG.

If you are subject in a guild where the officers/leader abuse Master Loot and strip people of their rewards... what are you doing in that guild? That's not fair.

If you are tank and your bis drops which is also a 20 ilevels upgrade, but it goes to the DPS where it's equal ilevel and just better secondary stats, that is not smart.

If you are raiding since the opening day and have 100 attempts on this boss before the first kill, but guy that joined last week is present for the kill after 3 attempts and gets the titanforged proc item that is not proportionate.

[Deleted]

Luck is the same factor as it is right now.

PL has more loot. You may have 8 cloth and 1 plate wearer and get 3 plate items and 2 strength weapons/trinkets...

With personal loot your loot will distribute fairer. So on average with 1 plate and 8 cloth wearers, you should get 8 times more cloth loot than plate.

Will be the same about other types. Right now we are flooded with tank trinkets because you have only 2-3 tanks, but 10 casters wanting the caster trinket...

Of course RNG will always play a big role. But thats always true. Right now Kingaroth can drop 3 caster trinkets or 3 mail bracers... decide yourself which group will be lucky during progress...

[Deleted]

The biggest problem with Personal loot is, that it's completely rng.
While in a 20 man Mythic raid you get with Master Loot 4 Items which will be passed for the 4 people who mostly benefit, Personal loot can be: Yo, we got 2 Items for 2 players, for whose it is only a very minor upgrade, but they can't trade it because it's 5 ilvl over theirs. But another player who could also need this would get a 20 ilvl upgrade. But well, he got nothin. While a Loot council would habe give it player B for the bigger upgrade, now player A has maybe an upgrade which is not notable and the slot of player B stays shit.

Master Loot made it possible to give the loot to the player who needed it most. Although, Personal Loot minimizes the chance top get the item you urgently need.
That's why it sucks like hell. If Blizz really removes Master Loot it will hurt the raids who used the system to keep all players up instead of the minority who "just gears up 1 player"