Possible Antorus nerfs?

[Zyky]

No one arguing they won't, but they're complaining to anyone who isn't annoyed about them. Seems like something you just need to accept and move on from, find the silver lining.

I honestly believe they're overdue. The power jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar then the jump between him and Argus, is HUGE. Argus feels more manageable than KJ did, but at least KJ was scripted, there's so many overlapping instant wipe mechanics on Argus that make him just feel terrible like KJ.

[Deleted]

I honestly believe they're overdue. The power jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar then the jump between him and Argus, is HUGE. Argus feels more manageable than KJ did, but at least KJ was scripted, there's so many overlapping instant wipe mechanics on Argus that make him just feel terrible like KJ.

[Zyky]

-Soulblights coming 2 seconds before new Fears go out almost all of P1, it kills people because there's only a .25 second chance to react to make sure people don't gain stacks of Fear. Losing someone in P1 is just a wipe, you can't afford to have someone dead that long it makes Rage/Fear harder in P3, it also isn't worth the brez because you need them in P3 for tanks.
-The random(which is more like 40/60) occasion where Fear/Rage go out a second after soulburst/bomb targets and burst targets someone with Rage. This one isn't so much instant wipe, but it causes deaths that shouldn't be happening in the first place. Rage targets can't be targeted by burst, but burst targets can be targeted by rage, that shit coding.
-Second set of Scythes basically happening within a half second of Rage/Fear target picks in P3 because of the random staggered cast from Sargeras.

You have a kill, yet you're that oblivious to how the fight works?

At the very least KJ was scripted, he was overtuned as fuck for a long time, but everything was predictable, the timers were accurate, and you could learn the fight like clockwork regardless of having a few people dead in the last phase.

[jayheals]

that's rage/blight/bomb awkwardness isn't "random", it's from failing to push p1 in time and resetting his gaze CD right at the transition. We got our first kill with a dps dead the entirety of p1 and p2, and got our 3rd kill tonight w/ 2 dps dead in p1 and p2. Every pull we don't have random deaths we have to stop dps so we don't push intermission too quick. The fight isn't nearly as unforgiving as you make it sound. Even 2 stacks of fear in p1 is fine as long as they don't get blight, and even then you can use externals on them because you really only need 1~2 externals for all of p2.

[Gaidax]

-Soulblights coming 2 seconds before new Fears go out almost all of P1, it kills people because there's only a .25 second chance to react to make sure people don't gain stacks of Fear. Losing someone in P1 is just a wipe, you can't afford to have someone dead that long it makes Rage/Fear harder in P3, it also isn't worth the brez because you need them in P3 for tanks.
-The random(which is more like 40/60) occasion where Fear/Rage go out a second after soulburst/bomb targets and burst targets someone with Rage. This one isn't so much instant wipe, but it causes deaths that shouldn't be happening in the first place. Rage targets can't be targeted by burst, but burst targets can be targeted by rage, that shit coding.
-Second set of Scythes basically happening within a half second of Rage/Fear target picks in P3 because of the random staggered cast from Sargeras.

You have a kill, yet you're that oblivious to how the fight works?

At the very least KJ was scripted, he was overtuned as fuck for a long time, but everything was predictable, the timers were accurate, and you could learn the fight like clockwork regardless of having a few people dead in the last phase.

What nonsense is this lol? There is absolutely nothing RNG going on P1 and P2, what you said it's all about people fucking up. There is nothing "sudden" or unpredictable in P1 and P2 and timings are all static.

The only exception to that is P1 to P2 transition giving extra Rage/Fears if you are slow with DPS and if that happens Soulblight will also come, it's not a chance - they are coupled. That is a bit annoying and affects P2 timers but no more than that and it's not even RNG, it just means your P1 dps was shit.

Also 1 person dying in P1 is not a bloody wipe (aside the point that there is nothing RNG about these deaths - 100% someone's fuckup)

[Emerald Archer]

Losing someone in P1 is just a wipe,

Agreed with Gaidax, losing someone P1 is absolutely not a wipe. 1 extra rage/fear is not a deal breaker, it's overhyped and not nearly as important as people make it out to be.
There's 2 points you can skip a rage and fear, one in p1, one in p2. Most groups just hit 1 of them, but even if you hit neither, it's NOT a big deal. As long as orbs die fast and you have room to move around.

[Deleted]

That doesn't apply, you can be the best player in the world, you still have to pay attention on multiple fights.

I don't think you actually raid mythic at 11/11, either that or you have a huge undeserved ego.

Would love to see your character. And your years of mythic experience, because atm you give off the vibe of someone who's going to hit mythic argus in 1 month, and then get mad that there's a nerf right before you kill it.

Just fighting the inevitable here mate, nerfs are coming, stop being in denial.

One thing you should realize is that I personally do not care whether nerfs are done or not.. I am simply stating that I do not see the purpose of nerfs for this instance. My character along with my guild will remain anonymous for anti targeted-harassment purposes.

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I honestly believe they're overdue. The power jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar then the jump between him and Argus, is HUGE. Argus feels more manageable than KJ did, but at least KJ was scripted, there's so many overlapping instant wipe mechanics on Argus that make him just feel terrible like KJ.

That's an issue with 91% of the raid being piss poor easy and the other 9% having some mild difficulty to it. It has nothing to do with Argus being that hard. Argus isn't even comparable to KJ.

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You do mean to offend, you come across very strongly as one of those that attach their self worth to their progress in a video game. If thats not the case then stop posting like you do.

If you found what I said offensive then maybe you are the one having these issues and are doing nothing to fix it? I don't see how anyone could find such a post offensive otherwise.

[Deja Thoris]

One thing you should realize is that I personally do not care whether nerfs are done or not.. I am simply stating that I do not see the purpose of nerfs for this instance. My character along with my guild will remain anonymous for anti targeted-harassment purposes.

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That's an issue with 91% of the raid being piss poor easy and the other 9% having some mild difficulty to it. It has nothing to do with Argus being that hard. Argus isn't even comparable to KJ.

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If you found what I said offensive then maybe you are the one having these issues and are doing nothing to fix it? I don't see how anyone could find such a post offensive otherwise.

Translation. I'll remain anonymous cos
A I'm a liar
B Despite my protestations to the contrary I realise that my posts make me come across as a complete bellend, hence the harassment excuse.

Nailed it didn't I?

[Deleted]

Translation. I'll remain anonymous cos
A I'm a liar
B Despite my protestations to the contrary I realise that my posts make me come across as a complete bellend, hence the harassment excuse.

Nailed it didn't I?

Not really but I do not have to identify myself to anyone on these forums. I am a well known player in the hardcore raiding scene and I do not see it worthwile to prove myself in a public forum filled with people capable with reason to harass me or my guild. My guild has been harassed before from someone mentioning us on MMO champion (probably due to jealously or being humiliated on this site).

[Deleted]

It has nothing to do with Argus being that hard. Argus isn't even comparable to KJ.

I found KJ much easier then Argus, the only hard part on KJ was to find people who are able to move and use their brain druing Bombs.
Edit: And have Guardians, two of them.

[Deleted]

I found KJ much easier then Argus, the only hard part on KJ was to find people who are able to move and use their brain druing Bombs.
Edit: And have Guardians, two of them.

Same, I feel like KJ was nowhere near as hard as Argus. Maybe hindsight and our current struggles are coloring my judgment, but Argus is much more annoying to me as a Holy Paladin than KJ was as an MM Hunter (or the 3 kills I did when I rerolled to Pala).

I always liked KJ, thought it was a fun methodical fight even though it was difficult. Argus, for some reason, just annoys me. No other boss in Antorus did that (except Coven, which is a snoozefest except for a few situations in the fight). Maybe it's that we're still wiping to personal mistakes that should've been ironed out 100 wipes ago.

[KaPe]

What nonsense is this lol? There is absolutely nothing RNG going on P1 and P2, what you said it's all about people fucking up. There is nothing "sudden" or unpredictable in P1 and P2 and timings are all static.

The very first Cone in the fight can have him standing in place casting Soulblight before Cleave, or obediently following the tank before doing all that. The very first case of RNG can happen 30 seconds into the fight, don't tell me you never saw it. And while this particular one isn't important, he can also decide to do Soulblight (or Gaze) before 5th cone, or delay 3rd set of buffs by two seconds, meaning it's harder to drop them outside Death Fog. None of this is all that major, but they add up and I'm pretty sure you wiped at least few times to it but choose to ignore because it's not some "major" RNG like skipping entire set of abilities.

[MastersOfSpace]

Legion has no content now so blizzard will do anything to keep current sub group happy, alot of people like me are un-subbing because nothing to do in the game. So yeah, expect shortly some nerfs

[Deleted]

I honestly believe they're overdue. The power jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar then the jump between him and Argus, is HUGE. Argus feels more manageable than KJ did, but at least KJ was scripted, there's so many overlapping instant wipe mechanics on Argus that make him just feel terrible like KJ.

The jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar is basicly mythic mode activating, the first 9 bosses are all easily (Vari could cause some problems to due lack of brainpower) farmed by heroic guilds.
I see no problem with an 11 boss raid having 2 mythic mode bosses. I would agree for some change on Aggramar (mechanics dessgn) since its a very tedious boss with only 1ish valid strat that revolves around a somewhat specific setup.
Argus is arguably easier than Aggramar in the current state, we still wipe occasionaly on Aggrammar where Argus is most often 1-3 pulls.

[Zyky]

What nonsense is this lol? There is absolutely nothing RNG going on P1 and P2, what you said it's all about people fucking up. There is nothing "sudden" or unpredictable in P1 and P2 and timings are all static.

Timings aren't static at all, the abilities can be changed around which screws up everything. It's happened several times where he just decides to do cone late and instead we just get new debuffs, which in turn screws up his timers until the last phase, what should I expect from a warlock playing destro though .

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The jump from the 9th boss to Aggramar is basicly mythic mode activating, the first 9 bosses are all easily (Vari could cause some problems to due lack of brainpower) farmed by heroic guilds.
I see no problem with an 11 boss raid having 2 mythic mode bosses. I would agree for some change on Aggramar (mechanics dessgn) since its a very tedious boss with only 1ish valid strat that revolves around a somewhat specific setup.
Argus is arguably easier than Aggramar in the current state, we still wipe occasionaly on Aggrammar where Argus is most often 1-3 pulls.

This issue isn't the first 9 being too easy or the last 2 being harder, the issue to me is that it was unexpected for a lot of guilds. It should have just been a steady increase instead of this HUGE jump. I think it was Sco who make a post while they were progressing on it with a straight line explaining progression then it just shot up like a mountain for Argus. I agree Argus isn't that difficult of a fight at all, but the randomness of the encounter and him not following his timers made the fight feel worse, especially during progression.

[Deleted]

This issue isn't the first 9 being too easy or the last 2 being harder, the issue to me is that it was unexpected for a lot of guilds. It should have just been a steady increase instead of this HUGE jump. I think it was Sco who make a post while they were progressing on it with a straight line explaining progression then it just shot up like a mountain for Argus. I agree Argus isn't that difficult of a fight at all, but the randomness of the encounter and him not following his timers made the fight feel worse, especially during progression.

This i can agree with, i would presonally have loved to see a much more (steeper) linear difficulty progression through the tier with bosses actually starting to change before aggramar, totally agree.

[Sonrisa]

Simply fixing the retarded amount of bugs Argus has would go a long way towards reducing frustration on the fight.

[Deleted]

Simply fixing the retarded amount of bugs Argus has would go a long way towards reducing frustration on the fight.

Name 5 bugs.

[Sonrisa]

Name 5 bugs.

Easy:
1- Your character can be many yards away from where the Cone of Death edge hits and you will still get hit. If you die your body will be well outside of the AoE
2- Boss transitions to phase 2, the swirl graphic vanishes but it keeps on doing damage for several seconds
3- You die on Death Fog/Apocalypsis Zone and get combat rezed outside, you die upon rezing from Death Fog/Apocalypsis Zone damage
5- A player can have Rage of Sargeras' but the graphic won't render for anyone else on the raid but him
6- Boss being taunted locks him out of doing Sargeras' Gaze. This one is actually helpful for avoiding the next one
7- If Argus uses Sargera's Gaze right before transitioning to phase 2 it will be out of sync, leading to situations like bombs having Sargera's Rage (which is particularly nice when it happens with the big one)
7- Apocalypsis Module can spawn on tanks even though there are 16 other viable targets after mass suiciding.
8- Tanks with Avatar of Aggramar warp/rubber band an ungodly amount for other players

[Nemesquish]

Easy:
1- Your character can be many yards away from where the Cone of Death edge hits and you will still get hit. If you die your body will be well outside of the AoE
2- Boss transitions to phase 2, the swirl graphic vanishes but it keeps on doing damage for several seconds
3- You die on Death Fog/Apocalypsis Zone and get combat rezed outside, you die upon rezing from Death Fog/Apocalypsis Zone damage
5- A player can have Rage of Sargeras' but the graphic won't render for anyone else on the raid but him
6- Boss being taunted locks him out of doing Sargeras' Gaze. This one is actually helpful for avoiding the next one
7- If Argus uses Sargera's Gaze right before transitioning to phase 2 it will be out of sync, leading to situations like bombs having Sargera's Rage (which is particularly nice when it happens with the big one)
7- Apocalypsis Module can spawn on tanks even though there are 16 other viable targets after mass suiciding.
8- Tanks with Avatar of Aggramar warp/rubber band an ungodly amount for other players

#1 isnt a bug, if you get hit while your jumping/blinking etc, your body will show outside even if you got hit.

#2 Has been fixed for probably over a month now,

#5 Never seen this happen a single time in all of progression. (Invisible rage.)

#6 Never noticed this happening, even if it did not a fight breaking bug by any means

#7 Not really game changing, fight timers change some times.

#7.2? Never once had the module spawn on tanks after stacked deaths.

#8 Never seen it.


Out of all those you listed, only #3 I would actually call a bug that is a determent, and it was easy to work around....Dont die to an easy mechanic. (plenty of medium skilled guilds, including ours killed it with this bug)