Bolvar First Strike and Death Knight Civil War [Speculation/Discussion/Minor Spoiler]

[Deleted]

Chronicles 3 did shed some new light on Bolvar and the LK himself.

He's been gradually losing his grip on the Scourge and Ner'zhul is still in there somewhere (and he still feels remorse for his role in damning the Orcs, so he's still pro Orc). I can actually see him losing total control and the new 'wrath 2.0' expac or patch will have Bolvar actually help us kill the Scourge once and for all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I disagree.

You can sing Heartbreak Hotel while wearing rhinestones and blue suede shoes, but there will never be another Elvis.
Kings can not be replaced with a cheap impersonation no matter how hard it has been tried.

That's not even a good argument at all.

[Caaethil]

As cool as the DK quests in Legion were, they're kind of a slap in the face to the story of the death knights breaking free of Arthas and vowing to not be like him. That said, it'd also be kind of lame to repeat the whole corrupted Lich King plotline.

A death knight civil war would be cool, but I'm not sure which side the player should be on in such a thing, and whether Bolvar's side should be the evil one. Regardless, I think the death knights' actions in Legion need to be properly justified.

EDIT: Also worth noting that Bolvar had some words to say to the player about the consequences of betrayal, if I remember correctly. He definitely seemed keen on taking Acherus for himself. So we could definitely see the Ebon Blade face off against Bolvar.

[Khaza-R]

Chronicles 3 did shed some new light on Bolvar and the LK himself.

He's been gradually losing his grip on the Scourge and Ner'zhul is still in there somewhere (and he still feels remorse for his role in damning the Orcs, so he's still pro Orc). I can actually see him losing total control and the new 'wrath 2.0' expac or patch will have Bolvar actually help us kill the Scourge once and for all.

To be honest, that makes the ending of WotLK much more interesting. The whole, "there must always be a Lich King" was meme-level storytelling. But it they elaborate on it as a ruse that Ner'zhul used to gain another vessel then it would redeem that arc.

Between that and the hints that Kel'thuzad is in the Shadowlands could defintely make a WotLK 2.0/Shadowlands expansion plausible

[Highwhale]

As cool as the DK quests in Legion were, they're kind of a slap in the face to the story of the death knights breaking free of Arthas and vowing to not be like him. That said, it'd also be kind of lame to repeat the whole corrupted Lich King plotline.

Ahem. Death Knights back in WotLK rebelled against Arthas not because he was evil or bad. They rebelled because Arthas wanted to use them as cannon fodder to lure Tirion. They felt betrayed by Arthas and thus Allied with Argent Crusade to kill Arthas.

[Caaethil]

Ahem. Death Knights back in WotLK rebelled against Arthas not because he was evil or bad. They rebelled because Arthas wanted to use them as cannon fodder to lure Tirion. They felt betrayed by Arthas and thus Allied with Argent Crusade to kill Arthas.

The quest hand-in for The Light of Dawn (the quest for the battle of Light's Hope Chapel) is as follows:

"There will be no atonement for us, <name>. We are forever damned to walk the earth as monsters. While the Lich King may have loosed his grip upon us, the specters of the past will forever haunt our memories.

We must make amends in the only way we know how: Death...

I ask you now to join me in Acherus as a Knight of the Ebon Blade. Together we will destroy the Lich King and end the Scourge."

The death knights didn't just have a grudge against Arthas personally. They sought redemption.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

To be honest, that makes the ending of WotLK much more interesting. The whole, "there must always be a Lich King" was meme-level storytelling. But it they elaborate on it as a ruse that Ner'zhul used to gain another vessel then it would redeem that arc.

Between that and the hints that Kel'thuzad is in the Shadowlands could defintely make a WotLK 2.0/Shadowlands expansion plausible

The internet would make memes of anything tbh but yes the Chronicle 3 did seem to note that Ner'zhul was still around but in a corner. Now that could explain Bolvar's behavior or not at all. Still, I think the "There must always be a Lich King" was left to leave the Scourge storyline open to the future but have a good ending to Arthas's story.

[nothingsjim]

Khadgar has retired to Karazhan as of the end of Legion. So he's unlikely to be in Dalaran even if Lich King really crashes Archeus into it.

Secondly, I think the next major conflict in Northrend (ala WotLK 2.0) will be about Odyn vs Bolvar. Keeper of Azeroth vs Jailer of the Damned.

Odyn has been freed from his imprisonment since Helya's death, and he has expressed interest in returning to Ulduar. I can't imagine him being too happy seeing his Northrend Vrykul being in service of the Lich King, the state of Northrend (Filled to the brim with undead) in general, or even the idea of using undead to protect Azeroth (Lich King stole my idea!!).

As a dutiful keeper and the Prime Designate, he will want to cleanse the cursed land, and he will enlist the mortal champions that once freed him to his aid. Instead of Dalaran, we get Halls of Valor as our flying fortress, and everyone get to do the superhero landing!

[Schattenlied]

should Blizzard keep "there always must be Lich King" idea?

I don't think they should, to be quite honest... the whole idea itself is just absurd.

We've seen what happens when scourge are not under control of the Lich King... It's the entire reason the forsaken exist at all... So if the forsaken can exist, why do the rest of them need a "jailer"? It makes no sense...

Even if a jailer was necessary, why can't he just slowly funnel the remaining scourge into a killbox and have them destroyed? Just end the threat of the scourge entirely... It's been like 9 years, could have easily completed that goal by now.

The entire idea of "there must always be a Lich King" is silly, and honestly seems more like something an entity within the Helm of Domination would say to try to keep itself from being destroyed, and then set to work on corrupting it's new wearer.

[Felixon]

So with Bolvar stuff in Legion and Taelia/Red Dragonflight stuff in BFA I believe its pretty strong hints that sooner or later we will have WotLK 2.0 expansion. If Bolvar become new villain what do you think his first actions will be and what side Ebon Blade will take in future war? Bonus question - who theoretically can become next Lich King or should Blizzard keep "there always must be Lich King" idea?

First about Ebon Blade. I believe If Bolvar going nuts there will be DK civil war. Its will be good story to update DK introduction storyline and at same time it will set Ebon Blade position in upcoming war. I'm pretty sure new Four Horsemen will take Bolvar's side (something something mind control) while Thassarian and Koltira will lead rebel DK for Alliance and Horde respectively.

What Bolvar's first strike will be? I think it will be Dalaran. Back in WotLK Dalaran had major role in Arthas' downfall because its was serving as safe heaven and base of operations for Alliance and Horde. If Bolvar manage to destroy it both factions will lose any chance to establish base in Northrend making war against Lich King much more harder. Something like this:

Imagine Acherus crushing into Dalaran destroying half of city in process. Then Bolvar and loyal to him Ebon Blade knights start slaughter on the streets (and probably Bolvar killing Khadgar).



So what you think? What Bolvar's first target will be and what will happen to Ebon Blade and playable Death Knights?

Well,considering the fact,that the Red Dragonflight representative keeps calling PC "Deathlord",I think,that the DK PC will get some exclusive part in all of this. Also,it's impossible to strike Dalaran,cause lorewise it is not in Northrend anymore and I think,that there're better places for it to be moved than a frozen continent full of undead.

[LoLcano]

To hell with recycling story . As great as wotlk was no one want a wotlk 2.0

[nothingsjim]

I don't think they should, to be quite honest... the whole idea itself is just absurd.

We've seen what happens when scourge are not under control of the Lich King... It's the entire reason the forsaken exist at all... So if the forsaken can exist, why do the rest of them need a "jailer"? It makes no sense...

Even if a jailer was necessary, why can't he just slowly funnel the remaining scourge into a killbox and have them destroyed? Just end the threat of the scourge entirely... It's been like 9 years, could have easily completed that goal by now.

The entire idea of "there must always be a Lich King" is silly, and honestly seems more like something an entity within the Helm of Domination would say to try to keep itself from being destroyed, and then set to work on corrupting it's new wearer.

It's just my own personal theory, but I think it's less an entity within the Helm of Domination, and more of an entity outside it, namely, the Old God Yogg-Saron.

Yogg-Saron is the Old God of Death, and it's not far-fetched to assume he feeds upon the death of those surrounding him. During the Northrend campaign, the deaths of many heroes and Scourge empower him, giving him enough strength to break free. Otherwise, why else would he chose to break free during that period of time, where there're heroes capable of stopping him? Why not do it at...any other time?

And that's the problem with ending Scourge. By ordering them to suicide en-masse, the resultant death will empower Yogg-Saron so much he might regenerate his physical form and breaks out of his prison, and that is definitely worse than Scourge. Also, if noone put on the helm to retain control of the Scourge, someone/something capable will, such as the ghost/shadow of Yogg-Saron.

[Highwhale]

Instead of Dalaran, we get Halls of Valor as our flying fortress, and everyone get to do the superhero landing!

Please no. Please...

I hate this place.

[nothingsjim]

Please no. Please...

I hate this place.

But, but, but...Super hero landing!

[Highwhale]

But, but, but...Super hero landing!

I rather walk without mount all expansion that coming back to this shit hole.

[Verdugo]

Alexstrasza says she loves all living things, including the orcs. During her testimony at Garrosh’s “trial”

Alexstrasza being a Nurgle worshiper, interesting revelations.

[Arrashi]

Alexstrasza being a Nurgle worshiper, interesting revelations.

Well we saw how well her fire "preserves" life with bolvar.

[Aucald]

Well we saw how well her fire "preserves" life with bolvar.

She didn't have much a choice there - without the actions of the Red Dragonflight the fear was that the Blight would spread across the Dragonblight and kill every living thing in the zone. I've always kind of wondered why Dranosh wasn't also rendered a briquette, though.

[MikeBogina]

I see 3 potentials for the future of the Scourge.
1. Bol'var loses control to the entity that was Lich King Arthas(it left Arthas once the helm was removed so it could still be in there) because he sounds like and is acting just like him
2. Bol'var sees everything Arthas and Ner'zhul saw, the conclusions and hard choices to save the world and comes to those same conclusions and is in full control
3. Bol'var loses control, but the madness of Ner'zhul takes over and we have a more crazy viscous scourge than ever before.

Whatever happens, i think the end game final goal for the Lich King will to bring back Arthas as a Death Knight and that might be the final straw for the factions.


Also was there datamined stuff about the dragons forgiving the death knights, but doing the "don't let it happen again" crap the paladins gave them?

[Claymore]

So... Here's what ***I*** think should happen.

Rulkan, Ner'zhul's mate from Draenor, brings his body to Northrend. She explains that, whatever his actions may have been, his motivations have always been in trying to protect his people. Some sort of emotional conflict, before Bolvar Fordragon decides to place the Crown of Dominion upon Ner'zhul's body. He "awakens", now whole, as a sort of "super Necromancer". In the presence of his mate (remember; *our* Ner'zhul watched his mate die to some illness a LOOOOOONG time ago, so seeing her would be deeply emotional to him), he agrees to rein in the Scourge, slowly calling them back to Icecrown, as a last-ditch defense against "the Void", should it ever arise as a threat.

At this point, Bolvar becomes a literal "burning Crusader", merging his former Paladin abilities with sort of a Fire-and-Brimstone aesthetic, perhaps seeking to create armistice between the Ebon Blade and the Silver Hand. Despite being a former hero of the Alliance, he would likely push more for neutrality and peace between the two factions, perhaps even taking issue with Genn Greymane's tactics (after all, Bolvar is just old enough that he would probably remember when Genn was being a dick during the Second War and refused to aid the Alliance, even if Bolvar hadn't yet been formally introduced back then).

What I ***ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT*** is for Bolvar Fordragon to become "Lich King 2.0", which is certainly how they're painting him. Creepy voice aside, I would like to think that maybe he's just "playing the part", and isn't actively trying to bring ruin to Azeroth, but just keep the Scourge around "just in case". And seeing more characer-growth from Ner'zhul would be absolutely amazing, as well.