Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Hammerfest]

Mark Robinson presents his case in a Greensboro NC city council meeting...

[cubby]

Obviously not, or else we would have one

We had some fun word play, but I think either I'm confused or you are - I'm guessing me. My point was that the current system doesn't use a computer. Which is beyond ridiculous.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. If they wanted to outlaw Ferraris or Porche because of highway safety, I wouldnt have a problem with it.

Yep - and rights can be restricted just like anything else.

[Svifnymr]

We had some fun word play, but I think either I'm confused or you are - I'm guessing me. My point was that the current system doesn't use a computer. Which is beyond ridiculous.

They do actually have some records computerized, though they are linked to physical media given the way tracing works and legal limitations.

NFA division is fully computerized of course, though the forms are physically filed somewhere. Eforms is dead now for us commoners, but everything was digital then. Even uploading your information via internet and everything being done via computer took 6 months when I did it. Error prone.

I'm sure a Shall Issue registration system would be quicker, though no more efficient due to government incompetence. I do wonder also if it'd become a partisan funding issue, every time a democrat takes over, funds get cut and sent to planned parenthood.

[cubby]

At the start. But it could be used as a tool later to confiscate guns if the right political parties are in power.

Any tool can be used for good or bad - that's not really a legitimate argument.

You need to remember, vehicles were started registering very early into their existence. There was not over 300 million of them in existence at the start of such registry.

This, however, is - and it's probably the biggest problem with the idea of gun registry. Even if we had a system up tomorrow - *POOF* - it wouldn't be effective until we could the actual guns registered.

And from what I've read, people wouldn't exactly be lining up to get that done.

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Well, it's not YOUR intent, but it's potential drawbacks must be measured against it's potential benefits rather than dismissed.

Granted - but anything can be used for good or evil. Arguing that a tool can be used poorly means we should outlaw hammers.

I didn't vote for him, nor against him, since I don't have a vote. How many folks want to say Feinstein doesn't represent the democratic policy on firearms? Most of them didn't vote for her. Not that it matters, the NRA is the evil bogeyman regardless of who is on the board.

Did you condone him and his comments? I can't remember, did Feinstein say we should kill everyone that disagrees with her?

You just really have no way to discuss things without dismissive insults, eh?

It wasn't an insult, but I can see how it might seem that way. It was actually a compliment, although backwards as hell. I was trying to say that you are very smart, obviously, and to have to defend/condone/dismiss people like Nugent can't be easy. I should have phrased it differently.

It helps with stolen vehicles and parts, certainly. Doesn't reduce drunk driving or accidents or anything. Effectiveness of license plates is almost comical if you've ever had to deal with a situation. Even if you have the make/ color and full number, still falls victim to garbage in/ garbage out.

No, it doesn't. The VIN and license plate tracking system works great and helps law enforcement tremendously. With respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Mistakes happen? Of course - nothing, anywhere, ever, is 100%.

[Deleted]

Hi, i'm from Scotland. I was very young when the Dunblane massacre happened. But this is what happened.

After the tragic event, the establishment owned media went on a crusade. This was in a time when the only voice people in the UK could hear was from the establishment, the average person was never given a chair to speak on. They were very successful and people were happy to give up their arms.
Since then, our country has progressively become more dangerous. A broken branch from a tree in the hands of a child is now considered a weapon. Every kind of violent crime has increased. And most tragically, our people have become too scared and dependent on the government to save them in a crisis.

[Svifnymr]

This, however, is - and it's probably the biggest problem with the idea of gun registry. Even if we had a system up tomorrow - *POOF* - it wouldn't be effective until we could the actual guns registered.

And from what I've read, people wouldn't exactly be lining up to get that done.

Just google the Canadian registration. I can only imagine how much worse the same would go in the USA, given 80% stuff. I don't think Canada actually prosecuted anyone for failing to register, though. Imagine getting arrested for a gun you didn't know was in the house.

Years ago, this lady was arrested at the fort lauderdale airport for trying to bring a gun on a plane. Don't know how the case went, just remember them making her do the camera-riddled perp walk. She was in her 60's I think, later they revealed the gun. A single shot 22 short that was mounted to a plaque, legally still a firearm but incapable of actually firing. I just imagine situations like that when they start adding new laws.

[Machismo]

Hi, i'm from Scotland. I was very young when the Dunblane massacre happened. But this is what happened.

After the tragic event, the establishment owned media went on a crusade. This was in a time when the only voice people in the UK could hear was from the establishment, the average person was never given a chair to speak on. They were very successful and people were happy to give up their arms.
Since then, our country has progressively become more dangerous. A broken branch from a tree in the hands of a child is now considered a weapon. Every kind of violent crime has increased. And most tragically, our people have become too scared and dependent on the government to save them in a crisis.

It woudl appear that crime rates in Scotland have dropped consistently over the past 25 years:

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/r...16-17/pages/4/

[Svifnymr]

Did you condone him and his comments? I can't remember, did Feinstein say we should kill everyone that disagrees with her?

I've skipped all the articles I've seen with him in them for years, why bother reading them? Doesn't matter what Feinstein says, if you want to claim she doesn't represent the whole, while also saying he does.

[Deleted]

It woudl appear that crime rates in Scotland have dropped consistently over the past 25 years:

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/r...16-17/pages/4/

crime but not VIOLENT crime.

That's why people like us aren't the best people to discuss this topic, we aren't very professional when it comes to understanding how to read statistics for countries.

[Machismo]

crime but not VIOLENT crime.

That's why people like us aren't the best people to discuss this topic, we aren't very professional when it comes to understanding how to read statistics for countries.

That link specifically pointed out different crimes over the years. On a side note, compared to the United States, their crime rates (other than simple assault) are almost all lower.

There was an uptick in certain violent crimes this past year (things like robbery), but the overall trend over the past 25 years shows a clear decrease in overall crime, including violent crime.

[Deleted]

There was an uptick in certain violent crimes this past year (things like robbery), but the overall trend over the past 25 years shows a clear decrease in overall crime, including violent crime.

Not true at all. What this article does is seperate sexual violent crime from non sexual to make it seem like its falling but when you combine both its clearly constantly rising.


Gun ban in 1997

[Machismo]

Not true at all. What this article does is seperate sexual violent crime from non sexual to make it seem like its falling but when you combine both its clearly constantly rising.


Gun ban in 1997

"Every kind of violent crime has increased. And most tragically, our people have become too scared and dependent on the government to save them in a crisis."

That's not really true. What you have, is an increase in sexual crimes, but violent crimes have been trending downward.

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/r...6-17/pages/20/

[Deleted]

sexual crimes are violent???

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Thats why they chose to seperate it as "non-sexual acts of violence"

[Svifnymr]

That link specifically pointed out different crimes over the years. On a side note, compared to the United States, their crime rates (other than simple assault) are almost all lower.

As I've mentioned before, the USA had more crime compared to UK/ Australia before their bans, and still has more. Percentage wise though, decreases have been similar, with the USA actually declining more. I haven't looked at the numbers in a couple years, but it used to be something like a 40% decrease in UK, 35% in Aus and a 45% decrease in USA. So attributing it to the gun ban isn't accurate, given all the advances in policing and stuff.

Mind you, since I'm a pessimist, I "know" the reductions are mostly because they've found new ways to report crimes, not reduce actual crimes. I think it was London that started counting all burglaries in an apartment building as one burglary, since they were probably all related anyway. It's common in some places in South Florida to take a report as a "lost item" rather than a theft, unless there is concrete proof that it was physically stolen rather than just you lost it, even when it's ludicrous.

[cubby]

Hi, i'm from Scotland. I was very young when the Dunblane massacre happened. But this is what happened.

After the tragic event, the establishment owned media went on a crusade. This was in a time when the only voice people in the UK could hear was from the establishment, the average person was never given a chair to speak on. They were very successful and people were happy to give up their arms.
Since then, our country has progressively become more dangerous. A broken branch from a tree in the hands of a child is now considered a weapon. Every kind of violent crime has increased. And most tragically, our people have become too scared and dependent on the government to save them in a crisis.

It must suck to be so frustrated because the people of your country wanted to do the right thing and bring down crime and gun masacres. I feel bad that you are so partisan that you can't see the reality for what it is.

Because Scotland's crime rate is at the lowest recorded level in 40 years. And that was 2014.

Which means you're either willfully ignorant (those damn establishment peeps!) or a liar. Your choice.

[Deleted]

It must suck to be so frustrated because the people of your country wanted to do the right thing and bring down crime and gun masacres. I feel bad that you are so partisan that you can't see the reality for what it is.

Because Scotland's crime rate is at the lowest recorded level in 40 years. And that was 2014.

Which means you're either willfully ignorant (those damn establishment peeps!) or a liar. Your choice.

Crime rate=/= violent crime rate

Im choosing the third option, willfully honest.

[Machismo]

As I've mentioned before, the USA had more crime compared to UK/ Australia before their bans, and still has more. Percentage wise though, decreases have been similar, with the USA actually declining more. I haven't looked at the numbers in a couple years, but it used to be something like a 40% decrease in UK, 35% in Aus and a 45% decrease in USA. So attributing it to the gun ban isn't accurate, given all the advances in policing and stuff.

Mind you, since I'm a pessimist, I "know" the reductions are mostly because they've found new ways to report crimes, not reduce actual crimes. I think it was London that started counting all burglaries in an apartment building as one burglary, since they were probably all related anyway. It's common in some places in South Florida to take a report as a "lost item" rather than a theft, unless there is concrete proof that it was physically stolen rather than just you lost it, even when it's ludicrous.

I'm not trying to attribute it to the gun ban (something I actually oppose). I'm pointing out that crime rates have indeed dropped overall.

[cubby]

I've skipped all the articles I've seen with him in them for years, why bother reading them? Doesn't matter what Feinstein says, if you want to claim she doesn't represent the whole, while also saying he does.

She does represent the whole - that's my point. As does Nugent. Because he's on the Board of Directors - that's literally what he does. The people hand-waving these comments or offering whataboutisms are the people showing some real truth.

Again, he sits on the Board of Directors of your organization - have you condoned him or asked for his resignation?

[Deleted]

Crime rate overall is irrelevant, its about violent crime and any gun crime(I cant think of any non violent gun crimes at the top of my head). There are many types of crimes that guns are never used in. Like the guy who was charged for the Nazi pug youtube video.

It's very different from violent crime.

[Machismo]

Crime rate=/= violent crime rate

Im choosing the third option, willfully honest.

Once again, violent crime has been trending downward for quite some time.

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/r...6-17/pages/20/

There was an uptick in the past year, but overall, has been dropping:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/79...obbery-assault

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Crime rate overall is irrelevant, its about violent crime and any gun crime(I cant think of any non violent gun crimes at the top of my head). There are many types of crimes that guns are never used in. Like the guy who was charged for the Nazi pug youtube video.

It's very different from violent crime.

And violent crime has been trending downward through the years.