"Anduin must gain the trust of Sylvanas"

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

This is new book description for "Before the Storm". Will Anduin 'win' the war by somehow healing the Forsaken?

Azeroth is dying.

The Horde and the Alliance defeated the demonic Burning Legion, but a dire catastrophe is unfolding deep below the surface of the world. There is a mortal wound in the heart of Azeroth, struck by the sword of the fallen titan Sargeras in a final act of cruelty.

For Anduin Wrynn, king of Stormwind, and Sylvanas Windrunner, warchief of the Horde and queen of the Forsaken, there is little time to rebuild what remains and even less to mourn what was lost. Azeroth’s devastating wound has revealed a mysterious material known as Azerite. In the right hands, this strange golden substance is capable of incredible feats of creation; in the wrong ones, it could bring forth unthinkable destruction.

As Alliance and Horde forces race to uncover the secrets of Azerite and heal the wounded world, Anduin enacts a desperate plan aimed at forging a lasting peace between the factions. Azerite jeopardizes the balance of power, and so Anduin must gain the trust of Sylvanas. But, as ever, the Dark Lady has her own machinations.

For peace to be possible, generations of bloodshed and hatred must be brought to and end. But there are truths that neither side is willing to accept and ambitions they are loath to relinquish. As Alliance and Horde alike grasp for the Azerite’s power, their simmering conflict threatens to reignite all-out war—a war that would spell doom for Azeroth.

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I mean, this changes everything. Sounds like we're not killing Sylvanas afterall.

And Saurfang will probably be how Anduin attempts to reach her.

[Gaidax]

This is before Sylvanas turned Teldrassil in giant elven BBQ. Doubt there is any peace process going on in the aftermath of that.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Uh huh, "unthinkable destruction".. man high class fantasy wrting there already; someone get them a thesaurus..

Anyway, jokes aside. Saurfang is set up as the next warchief. The book is supposed to be before the battle of UC/Lordaeron afaik. What I think is even more astonishing though, they already admitted that they made the whole thing sound a bit one sided, yet they released their first shot at the cinematics for the scenarios and they just confirm the already standing perception that horde is just flat out evil; again. Just making one character good-ish is not the solution and if they think they are subtle, they are not..

[bloodmoth13]

Yeah this is the book that bridges legion to BfA, basically the lead up to sylvanas being the villain and all the good stuff anduin does to try make everyone friends. Really really hope im wrong...

[Magnagarde]

Sylvanas being a villain makes more sense than Baine, Lor'themar, Velen, Malfurion, Tyrande or Anduin being villains.

In truth, the only thing that at this point sets her appart from proper villains is the fact that she leads a playable faction. Her story and actions taken are no better than a third class villain's with all the experimentation, mass murder and necromancy. It is your average barn-based witch story.

[Firatha]

You seem to have the time of events backwards this changes nothing if any thing it makes her look more evil because Anduin is pushing for peace in this book and we know he fails because war happens anyway(the burning) in the game.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Ok I guess we do know the book ends with us at war. At most, this gives us a tad more insight into how we get there.

[Darknessvamp]

Uh huh, "unthinkable destruction".. man high class fantasy wrting there already; someone get them a thesaurus..

Anyway, jokes aside. Saurfang is set up as the next warchief. The book is supposed to be before the battle of UC/Lordaeron afaik. What I think is even more astonishing though, they already admitted that they made the whole thing sound a bit one sided, yet they released their first shot at the cinematics for the scenarios and they just confirm the already standing perception that horde is just flat out evil; again. Just making one character good-ish is not the solution and if they think they are subtle, they are not..

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

[Deleted]

Yeah this is the book that bridges legion to BfA, basically the lead up to sylvanas being the villain and all the good stuff anduin does to try make everyone friends. Really really hope im wrong...

Why do you want to be wrong here?
I mean it is totally in character for both.

Did horde players really thought and hoped for Anduin becoming evil? I mean he is probably the most pure Person on the planet. And Sylvanas has been raiding nations, plaguing civillians and murdering people since the beginning.

I mean sure it is a not really original and very predictable story, but it is totally within the lore that has been.
You chose to play Horde, what did you expect, that you are the rightful paladins, only doing good stuff? The war basically started because your faction claimed land that didn't belong to them and even wanted more and more. The Horde has been and will allways the the aggressor. That is their faction identity you rolled with.
These are Orcs, Trolls and Undead. Treditional antagonists and aggressive monsters.

I just fail to understand what horde players actually think they are. If you want to be the noble, good knight that does everything right and only wants to have peace. Play Alliance.

Your highest rank is calles WARchief. What do you expect? Since when is mongering wars something good or noble or stuff people want.

[Deleted]

This is before Sylvanas turned Teldrassil in giant elven BBQ. Doubt there is any peace process going on in the aftermath of that.

Ofc there will be peace. Jaina has given up on the alliance' sanity long ago.

[Tems]

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

Night elves are not hypocritical. They are not defending every tree they see, so it would be weird to know their human allies are harvesting wood. They believe a set of places, Ashenvale being of them, are some magical forests that they are to protect as it contains a lot for their culture, religion and such. Also, Night elves aren't the best of pals with humans, they are on the same faction, they are allies, they fight alongside each other. Does not mean they are overly fond of one another, even if they don't possess any issues between them (This is very visible from the difference of presence of Nelves in human stories, quests and so on and vice versa compared to other allied races with humans, especially Dwarves)

[Kathranis]

Reminds me a lot like War Crimes, where Anduin was trying to gain Garrosh's trust.

Deep sigh as Garrosh 2.0 comes closer to reality.

[Steampunkette]

Y'all are all so focused on the least interesting parts of that blurb...

What the hell is Anduin's "Desperate Plan" aimed at making peace? It clearly isn't going to be something like "Anduin heads to Orgrimmar and is all chill and offers a Peace Treaty" the way it's written. This has to be a -DESPERATE- plan.

Does the Desparate Plan work? Does it fail? Does it backfire? Is the Alliance's peace overture rejected or is it destroyed by the actions of Horde Warriors or Alliance Soldiers? Is his "Desperate Plan" to steal the Azerite to create a balance of power, an act which directly challenges the Horde's claim and is inevitably going to just cause tensions to rise all the harder? Will he try to arrange some situation where he and Sylvanas must work together to overcome some challenge, only to have his plot revealed, undermining any bonding that may have occurred like some ridiculous 'Take the ugly girl to prom' bet?

What are the truths neither side can accept? What are the Ambitions the Alliance aren't willing to give up? The Horde? Anduin? We kinda -know- Sylvanas's, already... How does the Desperate Plan miss these truths or ambitions? Does it interact with them at -all-?

"Oh, yeah, Sylvanas is a raid boss!" Fuck that argument, we've had it in a hundred threads. Give me examination of the -rest- of the situation. Gimme some insight and speculation on the actually engaging bits...

[Zigrifid]

If Anduin tries to gain Sylvana's trust after the burning of Tedrassil i can assure you the night elfs are gonna be pissed at him doubt that blizz will ever take any risks like that to fragment a faction,they didnt do it during garrosh they wont do it now.

[Deleted]

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

When has the alliance ever unlawfully attacked a horde city in WoW? Don't give me alliance traitors attack some small time camp.
Horde has destroyed several Alliance cities.

And now you say Alliance is threatning and equate stopping a mining operation and seeking peace equates to genocide and destroying another city? I will never see eye to eye with people like you. You distort events so much, and have no sense of seriousness of the crimes.

Honestly, Sylvanas is the one that would have to prove herself trustworthy after retreating in the broken shore without a word. After the horde has bombed Alliance cities, the horde is the one that is threatning with a highly explosive material. Finally, Silithus is not horde territory. If anything it was cenarion circle territory and the goblins had no business being there in the first place.

[bloodmoth13]

Why do you want to be wrong here?
I mean it is totally in character for both.

Did horde players really thought and hoped for Anduin becoming evil? I mean he is probably the most pure Person on the planet. And Sylvanas has been raiding nations, plaguing civillians and murdering people since the beginning.

I mean sure it is a not really original and very predictable story, but it is totally within the lore that has been.
You chose to play Horde, what did you expect, that you are the rightful paladins, only doing good stuff? The war basically started because your faction claimed land that didn't belong to them and even wanted more and more. The Horde has been and will allways the the aggressor. That is their faction identity you rolled with.
These are Orcs, Trolls and Undead. Treditional antagonists and aggressive monsters.

I just fail to understand what horde players actually think they are. If you want to be the noble, good knight that does everything right and only wants to have peace. Play Alliance.

Your highest rank is calles WARchief. What do you expect? Since when is mongering wars something good or noble or stuff people want.

Id like some character development for both yes. anduin being such a goodie good is bullshit, and blizz forcing sylvanas to be the villain is bullshit. Sylvanas has a ton of redeeming qualities that blizz is just butchering in favor of making her an iredeemable loot pinata, and anduin has no qualities beyond being the perfect shining example of goodness.

I expect a game called world of WARcraft to have 2 sides waging war, not just one, i expect better character development for both factions, them shitting on the horde isnt doing the alliance any favors either. Honestly if you want to play a friendship simulator, you shouldnt be playing a franchise named 'warcraft'. blizz need to put the war back into warcraft, but both factions need a reason to fight.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I still don't see why people think the Horde is evil for attacking Teldrassil in the wake of the Alliance straight up attacking and killing Gazlowe's miners in Silithus (civilians), sabotaging their equipment and stealing the resources they gathered (Anduin okaying the SI agents to do whatever they want is shady as hell). Not to mention the simple fact is that there has always been a conflict between the Nightelves in Ashenvale and the Orcs stationed on the edge of the forest harvesting wood because they were harvesting wood during which they've killed peons (civilians) and soldiers for years now. Ignoring how hypocritical of the Nightelves it is to attack someone for using wood when they're fine with the humans and their own people doing so, Sylvanas attacking Teldrassil makes the most sense due to it's military placement now that the Alliance has stolen Azerite and could potentially use it from there to destroy the Horde capital as well as to finally settle the skirmish started by the Nightelves due to their close proximity and claims that they own the forest.

Horde are at least as aggressive in Silithus as Alliance. In fact, the Horde quest "No Spies Allowed" specifically instructs players to kill Alliance because they're "snooping around", the Alliance quest "Free Samples" merely says they need samples of what Horde is mining NAO and be prepared to fight if necessary. Besides, if Alliance does nothing that just gives Sylvanas more time to perfect her azerite weapons to destroy Stormwind.

Vengeance. Contempt. Call it what you will.
When the last of his subjects has been slain and raised Forsaken, the boy-king will kneel before the Dark Lady. And at long last, there will be but one queen to rule them all.

One Queen to rule them all,
One Queen to find them,
One Queen to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.

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Id like some character development for both yes. anduin being such a goodie good is bullshit, and blizz forcing sylvanas to be the villain is bullshit. Sylvanas has a ton of redeeming qualities that blizz is just butchering in favor of making her an iredeemable loot pinata, and anduin has no qualities beyond being the perfect shining example of goodness.

I expect a game called world of WARcraft to have 2 sides waging war, not just one, i expect better character development for both factions, them shitting on the horde isnt doing the alliance any favors either. Honestly if you want to play a friendship simulator, you shouldnt be playing a franchise named 'warcraft'. blizz need to put the war back into warcraft, but both factions need a reason to fight.

I agree it was better when leaders were Thrall and Varian - two multi-dimensional characters. Sylvanas has always been pretty dark. Anduin has always been a good kid. I think the die was cast when those two rose to power.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I expect a game called world of WARcraft to have 2 sides waging war, not just one, i expect better character development for both factions, them shitting on the horde isnt doing the alliance any favors either. Honestly if you want to play a friendship simulator, you shouldnt be playing a franchise named 'warcraft'. blizz need to put the war back into warcraft, but both factions need a reason to fight.

Oh that trite bullshit again. The game has always been about war but never really about the faction war, that one was last relevant in WC2. The franchise came to popularity with the external threats, not because the red vs blue bullshit that simpeltons cling to so much.

[Deleted]

Id like some character development for both yes. anduin being such a goodie good is bullshit, and blizz forcing sylvanas to be the villain is bullshit. Sylvanas has a ton of redeeming qualities that blizz is just butchering in favor of making her an iredeemable loot pinata, and anduin has no qualities beyond being the perfect shining example of goodness.

I expect a game called world of WARcraft to have 2 sides waging war, not just one, i expect better character development for both factions, them shitting on the horde isnt doing the alliance any favors either. Honestly if you want to play a friendship simulator, you shouldnt be playing a franchise named 'warcraft'. blizz need to put the war back into warcraft, but both factions need a reason to fight.

Personally I don't think you want character devlopment, you want to switch sides.
Your idea of development is a 180 degree turn for both characters that doesn't fit the lore and what has happened before.

No Sylvanas never had redeeming qualities. She was never a character that would endure. At some point she would have had to answer for her crimes, because other than the rest of the horde, the forsaken really did crimes, a lot of them. A redemption would be just not logical (though a possibility that Blizz might pull off). It is the same as if you would have expected Sauron to become good and is forgiven everything.

WoW is a very black and white story. Same as Lord of the Rings. High fantasy stories tend to be. And you chose to play Mordor.
So what you expect is just not in the game and never has been. The game was from the very beginning with WC1 and till WoW a game of two sides. One evil one good.


And Blizz DID put the war back into warcraft, the way war has allways been in Warcraft: The Horde is assaulting the Alliance and causes war.
Both sides have their reason: Alliance is defensive, Horde is offensive. Alliance wants to protect themself while the Horde wants to conquer them. (Sylvanas even sais that)

I think you just want a completely different game. Or you interpreted the events differently then they have been.
It is a common thing for Horde players to look out for stuff they can use as "The ALLiance did this and that!!!!" but the fact that their only argument has been Camp Taurjo since years speaks a very clear language: The Alliance isn't that way. And never really has been.
I can understand to some degree that Horde players don't want to be the evil ones, but then why do you play evil races like Orcs, Trolls and Undead. They are known in fantasy for being evil.

[bloodmoth13]

I agree it was better when leaders were Thrall and Varian - two multi-dimensional characters. Sylvanas has always been pretty dark. Anduin has always been a good kid. I think the die was cast when those two rose to power.

Yeah... heck id ever prefer garrosh before they did the burning crusade style 'he went insane' excuse. Though, did they ever give garrosh a reason to hate the alliance? i just thought it was entirely random that he hated them with such fervor out of absolutely nowhere, did varian screw him over in northrend or something that i missed?

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Personally I don't think you want character devlopment, you want to switch sides.
Your idea of development is a 180 degree turn for both characters that doesn't fit the lore and what has happened before.

No Sylvanas never had redeeming qualities. She was never a character that would endure. At some point she would have had to answer for her crimes, because other than the rest of the horde, the forsaken really did crimes, a lot of them. A redemption would be just not logical (though a possibility that Blizz might pull off). It is the same as if you would have expected Sauron to become good and is forgiven everything.

WoW is a very black and white story. Same as Lord of the Rings. High fantasy stories tend to be. And you chose to play Mordor.
So what you expect is just not in the game and never has been. The game was from the very beginning with WC1 and till WoW a game of two sides. One evil one good.


And Blizz DID put the war back into warcraft, the way war has allways been in Warcraft: The Horde is assaulting the Alliance and causes war.
Both sides have their reason: Alliance is defensive, Horde is offensive. Alliance wants to protect themself while the Horde wants to conquer them. (Sylvanas even sais that)

I think you just want a completely different game. Or you interpreted the events differently then they have been.
It is a common thing for Horde players to look out for stuff they can use as "The ALLiance did this and that!!!!" but the fact that their only argument has been Camp Taurjo since years speaks a very clear language: The Alliance isn't that way. And never really has been.
I can understand to some degree that Horde players don't want to be the evil ones, but then why do you play evil races like Orcs, Trolls and Undead. They are known in fantasy for being evil.

no i dont want to swap sides, i dont expect sylvanas to be anduin or vice versa, i just expect anduin to grow a pair and sylvanas to not turn into the lich king. Her initial character arc was revenge against arthas, then they shat all over that by recycling his story on her.

LOL sauron? no. if you cant see any redeeming qualities about sylvanas from her lore then there is just no point in further discussion since you are blinded by prejudice, and im fine with that, i like that people hate her, i just dont want blizzard to try and force me to hate her.

Horde werent the badguys in warcraft 3, vanilla wow continued from that, at the start kul tiras remnants were harassing the horde, we had motive, and blizzards original intent was that both factions were grey, its just the current bullshit writing that is painting everything as black and white.

The only reason the alliance never do anything bad is because the thin skinned forum dwellers who insist on the black and white story, i remember the uproar from the alliance about the camp taurajo thing that had blizz quickly whitewash it in beta. If it werent for that im sure anduin wouldnt still be a boy and that the alliance would attack the undercity first.

Blizz intended to make them different, wow trolls arent the same as other fantasy trolls for example.