Ret Alpha: What feels good

[Schmilblick]

Personally, kust by looking at the spells / talents, I feel it's still the most boring melee of the game, too bad, i like this class :/

[Ilivath]

Only thing im looking forward to is the potential resurrection of justicar's vengeance. During legion pre-patch JV was my favorite ability, especially in PvP. As the expansion progressed multiple talents/artifact talents that buffed TV made JV never worth using. Hopefully the same mistake isn't made with azerite. If Wings-ES-Ashes-Hoj-JV (along with potential DP procs) doesn't make people cry for mercy then there's nothing for me in BfA.

JV does less damage than TV unless the target is stunned. They clearly intend for JV to be used only on stunned targets or for teh heal.

[docterfreeze]

JV does less damage than TV unless the target is stunned. They clearly intend for JV to be used only on stunned targets or for teh heal.

Pretty dumb since it costs 5 HP and takes a talent slot on the same row as selfless healer. It should always be the go-to button for quick burst stunned or not. It's also worse in PvP since they template nerfed it.

[Sigxy]

JV does less damage than TV unless the target is stunned. They clearly intend for JV to be used only on stunned targets or for teh heal.

Considering they nerfed the "100% bonus damage on stunned targets" to just 50%... it's definitely mostly a 'recovery' kind of heal instead of stunning and then use flash of light spam. '.'

[Deleted]

I have beta and gameplay wise I'd say it's pretty much the same, only slower. Feels the same, sounds the same, same horrible TV-animation etc.

[Morally Grey Storm]

After thoughtful thinking, I’ve arrived to conclusion that Divine Judgement feels good.
St damage increase talent on aoe row is very balanced and innovative.
Told you, they know what they’re doing.

[Saiona]

Anyone else feel like our aoe is dogshit now?

[Kisuke42]

Might be off-topic a bit. but are there plans to change/update the animation of any of our abilities?

[Ulthane]

After thoughtful thinking, I’ve arrived to conclusion that Divine Judgement feels good.
St damage increase talent on aoe row is very balanced and innovative.
Told you, they know what they’re doing.

They need to work on that talent : /

My opinion is the whole row needs work.

-Divine Judgment: Your finishers cause your Judgment to deal more damage stacking up to x times. It doesnt fall off, just a maintain buff.
-Consecration: Needs CD lowered to match duration for more uptime because it generates Holy Power.
-Wake of Ashes: Needs a 30 second cd.

[General Guderian]

My opinion is the whole row needs work.

They should bring GJ back, it's awesome, especially for M+

[snackfeat]

Anyone else feel like our aoe is dogshit now?

Every class has had their aoe reduced.

[Saiona]

Every class has had their aoe reduced.

Not my unholy on beta. Unholy in dungeons feels great

[Acelius]

Not my unholy on beta. Unholy in dungeons feels great

Is unholy playing the same as on live?

[Deleted]

Or perhaps:
Divine Verdict: Templar's Verdict increases the damage of your next Divine Storm by x% and projects it 20y forward.:-)

I never understood Divine Judgment...I will never use DS in a single target situation to buff Judgment, but I would be always willing to use TV in an aoe situation to buff DS.

I think you got it wrong : It's not only DS anymore but all of our finishers. And multiple TV gives multiple stacks (from what I have seen).

And, actually I like this talent. Having a talent that allow us to keep a High single target damage (maybe even stronger) on an AoE situation is nice. It's what we missed on fights like Mistress Sassz'ine.

I know it's not the best talent in the world, it's really situationnal, but I think it's a nice option if well tunned.

The biggest problem I have on this raw is Concecration... When we think of the design of this raw we have :

-Wake of Ashes : Burst AoE
-Concecration : Made for sustained AoE
-Divine Judgment : High single target when on AoE situation for priority target damage.

But because Concecration generates HoPo, they cannot give it a small CD or it will be too powerfull il any situation.
And, because when you use it, it doesn't move, if the duration matches the CD to have sustained AoE, it will be a really big loss when mobs moves before the end of it.

So, we are stuck with a 20sec CD that deals damage for 6 seconds and do nothing for the last 14 sec. So... not really sustained, just less bursty than WoA.

I'd rather see Divine hammer back here. It brings nothing in single target, but it's really sustained AoE and doesn't have Concecration's weaknesses.

[Ulthane]

Or perhaps:
Divine Verdict: Templar's Verdict increases the damage of your next Divine Storm by x% and projects it 20y forward.:-)

I never understood Divine Judgment...I will never use DS in a single target situation to buff Judgment, but I would be always willing to use TV in an aoe situation to buff DS.

I would like that variant better.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you got it wrong : It's not only DS anymore but all of our finishers. And multiple TV gives multiple stacks (from what I have seen).

And, actually I like this talent. Having a talent that allow us to keep a High single target damage (maybe even stronger) on an AoE situation is nice. It's what we missed on fights like Mistress Sassz'ine.

I know it's not the best talent in the world, it's really situationnal, but I think it's a nice option if well tunned.

The biggest problem I have on this raw is Concecration... When we think of the design of this raw we have :

-Wake of Ashes : Burst AoE
-Concecration : Made for sustained AoE
-Divine Judgment : High single target when on AoE situation for priority target damage.

But because Concecration generates HoPo, they cannot give it a small CD or it will be too powerfull il any situation.
And, because when you use it, it doesn't move, if the duration matches the CD to have sustained AoE, it will be a really big loss when mobs moves before the end of it.

So, we are stuck with a 20sec CD that deals damage for 6 seconds and do nothing for the last 14 sec. So... not really sustained, just less bursty than WoA.

I'd rather see Divine hammer back here. It brings nothing in single target, but it's really sustained AoE and doesn't have Concecration's weaknesses.

This is why the Wake of Ashes needs a lower CD to compensate for a Consecration having a lower CD. In turn proper tuning for the other talent would make it a competitive row.

[Kuriyama]

I know it's just ranting, but why do unholy dks get such an amount of blue posts and evvery talent they don't like is changed, while ret is still waiting for any response and changes to glaring problems?
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284203/u...ce-new-talents

UH DK are getting all the blue posts because they finally got their changes in the last big build. So naturally the feedback will be all about them.

We had our massive changes build ages ago, and yes, it has gone really quiet but I'm not surprised because they're now looking over other classes.

Don't be surprised if we don't hear anything from devs for a while, if at all.

[Deleted]

You are right. Totally forgot about that change. Would like a kind of Empowered Divine Storm mechanic nonetheless.

Well, I think it's a good idea. Having the TV / DS waving back is good. But what I like the most in your idea is the "Project DS 20 yards forward". I really get used of DS being able to DPS in a rather big line in front of me and it also helps us with our lack of mobility, having something to press when not in melee or just not having to move constantly in every possible directions when mobs are moving.

I think it's one of the best artifact trait we have now (well, of course the trait that allow the judgment debuff is really great too, but to me it's not a "good addition" but just a way to fix the bad design of the judgment debuff).

This is why the Wake of Ashes needs a lower CD to compensate for a Consecration having a lower CD. In turn proper tuning for the other talent would make it a competitive row.

I don't think they will ever do that. The only reason why the CD on WoA have been increased that I can see is to not let us use it on every Execution sentence. And if ES have it's cooldown lowered to allow us having a 30 sec CD WoA, it would lose a bit of it's "burst" fantasy.

But what I would like to see is, with our slower gameplay, the removal of ES Holy Power cost. I haven't tested it for now because I don't have the time to go on beta now, but I fear it could feel clunky to have to pull 5 HoPo before ES comes off cooldown by creating gaps in our rotation (because we don't use GCD to spend our HoPo) and having some more gaps in our rotation while ES is on the target.

I like the idea of this talent, but I would prefer having it free, even if it is on a larger CD.

I know it's just ranting, but why do unholy dks get such an amount of blue posts and evvery talent they don't like is changed, while ret is still waiting for any response and changes to glaring problems?

I think it's just because they aren't working on ret for now. As Thete said in one of his latest video, they don't have a team for each class, but teams that works on several class.

But, what I greatly dislike is that when the dev came to the pally class Discord (when Thete baited him with cookies... God this man is my hero!) He said that Long arm of the law was a great talent etc... but he did nothing, and they gave DK more mobility tools (Death's advance increasing movement speed by 30%)...

And they also made monks even more stupid mobility wise or survivability wise... Because now they can have :
-Chi torpedo / Celerity + Tiger's lust
-Diffuse magic + Dampen harm / Inner strength while still having 2 rolls (+ Flying serpent kick for WW) + Touch of karma that is strictly better than Shield of vengeance because it have a lower CD baseline (1.5min vs 2min CD), better damage reduction (50% vs 30%, and it means better damage done too) and is off the GCD while SoV is on it... And the only restriction on Touch of karma is that monks needs a a target in a 20 yards range to use it...

So... Yeah monks will have hundreds time more mobility (they already have it, but they'll have more) and possibly 3 defensive CD's (all off the GCD)...

I don't care behing less powerful than monks, but this amount of benefit for a classe compare to another make me sick... Why take a slow ass paladin when you can have a monk that will never lack mobility, will have tools to survive anything (yes, we have bubble... Once every 5 minuts (because noone will take the talent that reduce it's CD if it's not absolutely mandatory for a specific fight).

I don't know... I really think they need to re-think their design in class fantasy...

[Morally Grey Storm]

I know it's just ranting, but why do unholy dks get such an amount of blue posts and evvery talent they don't like is changed, while ret is still waiting for any response and changes to glaring problems?
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284203/u...ce-new-talents

Isn't it obvious?
Ret gets less attention because it is already perfectly viably solidly balanced.

[Deleted]

I think there's a scarily high chance we go live in BfA with LESS mobility than Legion, and Legion's shit mobility was the whole reason I stopped playing.

If it goes live as it is, I simply won't play. It's ridiculously bad design. Anyone who has played Ret seriously knows the spec cannot be left with even less mobility, it simply doesn't fucking function in any scenario like a melee should.

[Ulthane]

I think i have a solution for Divine Judgment

Judgment or Holy Power consumers reduces the cd and increase the damage up to x times. Lasts 10 seconds.

So could be a 3 stack or 5 stack. More damage on it amd shorter cd means more holy power generation.