NYT: Centrists Are the Most Hostile to Democracy, Not Extremists

[Tidestorm]

By the way, you guys who think there are only two sides to any issue have a lot to learn in life.

[Deleted]

Though I think the analogy as presented is flawed, the sentiment behind Fish Hook Theory is historically accurate in that self-described centrists have had, for reasons both ideological and parochial, a tendency to empower the far-right either out of malice or negligence.

This is a better fishhook theory. The article itself makes large leaps of logic jumping from people disillusioned with the voting system to people wanting dictators.

[Theodarzna]

See, you're the type I really despise. To you there is no gray in your world. You think of people as 'with' you...or with the terrorists...

In reality, people are not so pigeonholed so easily.

I'm not a lover of Trump, but, otoh, I haven't loved a Presidential candidate in years...

I'll actually say that to some extent there is a truism in his words. Mainly that a lot of self-described centrists are at least ostensibly fence sitters. I think though it is okay to criticize those since it is somewhat true that you can't be neutral on a moving train.

@Crissi however hits on something more concrete that doesn't fence sit. Mainly it is a question of tactics not of ideas or thoughts. The thing that makes something extreme is the willingness to resort to a "No bad tactics only bad targets" mentality about ones political beliefs.

I for one recall reading once that a Centrist, a true one anyway, is best also called a Syncreticist or someone who synthesizes ideas often from wildly different camps. Someone whom can sound like a Marxist, Hippie, Nationalist, Populist, Feminist, Social Justice Warrior, Alt-Righter, Civic Nationalist, Libertarian and Anarchist all in a single day depending on what the topic and issue is at hand. This is different from necessarily fence sitting or "Not taking a side" it is merely agreeing with the bits and pieces one finds most correct and discarding the others.

[PosPosPos]

See, you're the type I really despise. To you there is no gray in your world. You think of people as 'with' you...or with the terrorists...

In reality, people are not so pigeonholed so easily.

I'm not a lover of Trump, but, otoh, I haven't loved a Presidential candidate in years...

There's a gray area between right and wrong, but why choose it when you can choose to be right?

I am okay being despised by cowards with no moral spine nor ethical compass who can't choose to do the right thing, because it means I am not an awful human being like them.

Sure, being slightly less of an awful human being is better than being an awful human being, but it's like insisting there's a world of difference between dried and fresh dung.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Respondents who put themselves at the center of the political spectrum

This seems super scientific considering how many "woke independents" I see online claiming to be centrists while holding radical right wing views.

This was my very first thought, and most likely true. The far right often see themselves as "centrists". It's why their panties get twisted into knots if you ever dare to call them right, far right, alt right, etc.

They PERSONALLY identify as centrist, but when you delve into their political beliefs, you find they are pretty extreme. They've just bathing in a political environment that has accepted pretty far right authoritarian views as the "middle".

[Wyrt]

This was my very first thought, and most likely true. The far right often see themselves as "centrists". It's why their panties get twisted into knots if you ever dare to call them right, far right, alt right, etc.

They PERSONALLY identify as centrist, but when you delve into their political beliefs, you find they are pretty extreme. They've just bathing in a political environment that has accepted pretty far right authoritarian views as the "middle".

I think part of that is just the nature of US politics being slanted so far to the right. A centrist would normally be a Democrat in Europe or Canada, but in the US Democrat is seen as far left and it skews everything.

[Deleted]

We've always been at war with the syncretist.

[Locked down]

The left are becoming nazis again and the right antifa...

It isn't hard to see why people caught between them are despairing.

[downnola]

Like the OP for instance, judging from his post history and his inexorable hate of immigrants and minorities alike.

Thats not true at all. Though, I'd certainly get a kick out of cattle-proding people like you into a cage and forcing you to listen to Mmm-bop for eternity.

[PosPosPos]

Thats not true at all. Though, I'd certainly get a kick out of cattle-proding people like you into a cage and forcing you to listen to Mmm-bop for eternity.

It's true, just not something you want to openly admit. Easier to continue your brand of hate if you hide behind a thin veil.

[downnola]

It's true, just not something you want to openly admit. Easier to continue your brand of hate if you hide behind a thin veil.

We're operating under anonymity on this board. I have no reason to conceal anything here. In fact, if one does scour my post history the one thing I do consistently despise is extremists on the left and the right. I know in your howling wilderness of a mind it's impossible to interpert hate of the far left without that person being a racist Nazi, but I have no desire to entertain quackery on either side of the spectrum. If that bothers you, then too bad.

[Gadion]

Hmmm... I for one am not a fan of the left/right dichotomy, particularly given the level of absurdity that can come from extreme camps. My view is that people just basically happen to believe a combination of liberal and authoritarian standpoints. Forcing labels onto people does nothing but create camps for the us-vs.-them slaughter fest.

But if you do take the left-right duality, there are crazies on either side that I wouldn't want to associate with. If you consider them in my country, it's basically
Far-left (We hate you whitey!!! [no exaggeration]) to far-right (We're being slaughtered, halp!!!!1!!1!)
Both positions are crazy, and I would seriously resent being shoe-horned into either camp. But no, if I don't choose either, I'm somehow not democratic?

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forcing you to listen to Mmm-bop for eternity.

You're vile!!!

[Themius]

There's a gray area between right and wrong, but why choose it when you can choose to be right?

I am okay being despised by cowards with no moral spine nor ethical compass who can't choose to do the right thing, because it means I am not an awful human being like them.

Sure, being slightly less of an awful human being is better than being an awful human being, but it's like insisting there's a world of difference between dried and fresh dung.

Where's the grey area between not discriminating gay people?

[Redwyrm]

Another part of centrism is the both-sides movement. While centrism in itself is not inherently dangerous (you can have conservative fiscal outlook at the same time believing in science based findings about the environment, etc.), the both-sides crowd seeks to whitewash the stupidity and corruption of one side by claiming everyone does it. Which is demonstrably false and harmful to political discourse. A lot of the media is at fault for this because they want an exciting match of equals. But they should be calling things as they are and not worried about the revenue side of journalism.

[Daelak]

Another part of centrism is the both-sides movement. While centrism in itself is not inherently dangerous (you can have conservative fiscal outlook at the same time believing in science based findings about the environment, etc.), the both-sides crowd seeks to whitewash the stupidity and corruption of one side by claiming everyone does it. Which is demonstrably false and harmful to political discourse. A lot of the media is at fault for this because they want an exciting match of equals. But they should be calling things as they are and not worried about the revenue side of journalism.

I'll dispute the bolded, since there is now empirical, falsifiable data, as well as historical case studies that show "fiscal conservatism" in government budgets, especially with the federal funds and our fleeting value of being the world's reserve currency, accelerates our slide in mediocrity, creates large deficits, and makes our economy, tax base, even more in a precarious position because of the maldistribution of wealth and income.

[Redwyrm]

I'll dispute the bolded, since there is now empirical, falsifiable data, as well as historical case studies that show "fiscal conservatism" in government budgets, especially with the federal funds and our fleeting value of being the world's reserve currency, accelerates our slide in mediocrity, creates large deficits, and makes our economy, tax base, even more in a precarious position because of the maldistribution of wealth and income.

Agreed and let me rephrase. I'm not advocating trickle down economics or cutting social benefits and programs to pay for military spending or tax cuts for the rich. Our priorities should be a better education system (both public schools and private colleges as far as providing financial assistance to college grads), infrastructure, and making sure the US can compete in the future technological jobs market. Personally I feel it could be done with increasing taxes on the top percentage and auditing (and subsequently cutting the budget) of the military. As well as offering tax incentives in ways that encourages people to spend and businesses to create jobs.

Just off the top of my head. Didn't mean to say I agree with how Conservatives think in terms of fiscal policy. Just that we can be fiscally responsible and smart about how we do it to get the results we are looking for without adding to the debt/deficit.

[Rennadrel]

One idiots opinion doesn't make it fact. Extremists are toxic, that's the long and short of politics these days. And either side panders towards racist ideologies of some sort. This forum is a prime example of how divisive and toxic the extremists are, and that anyone who stands in the middle is somehow a problem too.

[Yuujin]

Centerlist. More like racist that dont want to be labeled Republican. Amirite?

[Mormolyce]

Does this study count "woke independents" as "centrists"?

[Theodarzna]

Does this study count "woke independents" as "centrists"?

I am curious what "Woke Independent" is?