Battle for Azeroth: The Bad Game design and overcasualisation of a 15year old game...

[The Stormbringer]

This is the inbetween. BFA threat is nothing like what it was in classic or BC.

From the OP's description we've got:

1.) Need crowd control.
2.) Tank needs precise timing.
3.) DPS needs to give the tank a few to several seconds to build threat.
4.) If DPS gets aggro then they'll die.

Sounds a lot like Classic or BC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying Blizzard doesn't know how to make measured responses to perceived issues. Look at dailies from MoP, "Oh, there were too many? NO DAILIES IN WOD!"

[huth]

From the OP's description we've got:

1.) Need crowd control.
2.) Tank needs precise timing.
3.) DPS needs to give the tank a few to several seconds to build threat.
4.) If DPS gets aggro then they'll die.

Sounds a lot like Classic or BC.

In vanilla and BC, DDs couldn't even go all out in single target. You'll have a hard time pulling threat off your tank there even with these changes.

Only thing that is affected is multi-target situations.

[The Stormbringer]

In vanilla and BC, DDs couldn't even go all out in single target. You'll have a hard time pulling threat off your tank there even with these changes.

Only thing that is affected is multi-target situations.

Multi-target situations, right. So, every pack of trash ever? Aside from the rare mini-boss style trash, of course.

[Satelliteyears0o]

Bad player is a bad player. U want things ez? go play final fantasy with the other weebs n neckbeards

[Deadwhisper]

So you decide to join the dungeon Que in beta, to test the "amazing" new changes. Finally after the long wait, you and four more like minded join the instance.
1st Trash pack - 2 dps dead , 2nd pack- again dps and healer dead, 3rd pack same again , 4th, 5th.....till the second boss, we needed to repair...
So, you communicate with your tank to see what's going on? Fellow tank guy links you the wowhead link about the threat changes.....
You read it! And as you read you realize that...in order for your fellow tankadin(in this case or any other tank in the matter) to build a decent AoE threat value.... it needs 5 FREAKING GLOBAL COOLDOWNS.....5 to 6 CANCEROUS seconds where you as a dps...should just WAIT!!!
And then you set off to start your own "slow to death" rotation and gameplay....while in the meanwhile you "pray" , that your tank won't get GCD locked mid fight and loose aggro.

It seems to me, that game developers , in order to "bump" or "boost" the life expectancy of their poor designs and the noncompetitive game content... oblige and condemn us to play as slow as a sloth.
First, by locking down your flow of the game through the "new" GCD system.
And second....since yesterday, they also decided to change the threat generation-preservation mechanism, to a "Burning Crusade" experience...making the game SLOOOWW....LIKE 12-13 years ago slow, where it was the case for a ton of classes, that they should actually stop casting and wait....just to avoid overaggro.
Back then , they used to say that the flow of the game was restricted due to technical issues concerning the game's engine and the servers. But today , they decided to throw in your face a 13 year old game design......without excuses.
I 've been playing the game for a very long time.....I ve been a raider since the original Karazhan /gruul's lair era.....up till now. I object the fact, to be forced fed 15 year old gameplay as "new" and improved....

I'm not sure you understand that LEGION is the peak of casualization. Epics grow on trees, legendaries grow on trees, raid gear is given to you without raiding, etc. If anything, BFA is a huge step away from casualization. They're removing many quality of life adjustments that just made aspects of the game not matter. PVP is also suffering with the introduction of "Templates" which removes all choice for stats. They're making threat relevant, which it should be. I've been DPS since after molten core, and things like this separated the Good/bad DPS. The game in its current state is the worst it has ever been. Trash does not matter. Threat does not matter. CC does not matter. It's literally, PULL > AOE. Everyone can be on auto pilot.

You did not think this through.

[Chaelexi]

basicly he is mad that dps died each pull because tanks dont generate the amount of aggro they used to so now dps has to wait before blowing their load on trash

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im playing on the beta and i have to say i havnt seen the aggro problems that much myself but then again i am also test demo on my lock and the start off is slow

Not quite, Tanks will hold agro on their main target with no issues you just can not go balls to the wall on AOE and target priority and marking targets becomes a key strategy again. Maybe even CC.

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Multi-target situations, right. So, every pack of trash ever? Aside from the rare mini-boss style trash, of course.

Yes it is multitarget but the tank, if DPS is smart, will always hold threat on his main target. So focus his target for the first 5 global and then you can open up on the AOE.

[huth]

Multi-target situations, right. So, every pack of trash ever? Aside from the rare mini-boss style trash, of course.

That's kinda what makes them packs. Single trash mobs aren't that rare, though, and priority targets are fairly common. You might have forgotten that due to the current gogogo mentality.

[The Stormbringer]

That's kinda what makes them packs. Single trash mobs aren't that rare, though, and priority targets are fairly common. You might have forgotten that due to the current gogogo mentality.

I didn't forget, I'm just playing with the expectations of what I see currently. And what I see currently is no one pays attention to priority targets, and tanks don't even mark anymore. If DPS gets aggro in Legion, there's usually not a problem, since they can kill it before it can kill them. This won't be the case in BfA, and it'll take a good while before people re-learn patience, marking, and focusing main targets.

[Chaelexi]

Welcome to the Blizzard Pendulum, where aspects of the game swing completely from one direction to the other.

Now: Threat is never an issue, tanks are fine and able to pick up adds even when DPS is stupid.
PENDULUM SWINGS
BfA: Threat is a serious issue, tanks have to really focus and any mistake or impatience by the DPS is punished.

There is no inbetween.

There were lots of complaints that current tanking meta is not engaging at all for tanks, in high M+'s they do not even tank it is more just kiting things around as there is no threat of losing agro after hitting things a few times.

[The Stormbringer]

There were lots of complaints that current tanking meta is not engaging at all for tanks, in high M+'s they do not even tank it is more just kiting things around as there is no threat of losing agro after hitting things a few times.

And that's fair, but there needs to be an inbetween. You don't smash someone in the face with the nerf-hammer and call it good, you tweak it down bit by bit until it's more engaging. Maybe give a few mobs abilities to swap their focus to another target so a tank has to taunt them off or re-grab aggro every so often, things like that. Blizzard doesn't seem to know how to give a measured response to things, only massive responses.

[kran1um]

Bad players will always 'blow things up' without regard to the tank. Many times in TBC I had to run after the add going after the mages just because the first button they push was an aoe spell. Forget sheeping or sapping in PUGs, they'll still pull them with aoe buttons. If there was no aoe button it'd be sooo much better, but take longer to kill stuff. Im definately going to make a skull macro.

[Sencha]

I like to see threat management back.

Dps will need to adapt. Just don't play with the gogogo kids.

[Deathquoi]

Wow, you might actually have to manage threat on multiple targets and use taunt intelligently instead of just running in and spamming AoEs. Terrible change! /s

[Zhira]

So........you are mad because tanks cant just chain pull the world again? I don't see the issue. I actually like the idea that threat matters a lot more again. Makes people actually think.

Reminds me of the shift from Wrath to Cataclysm when people lost their goddamn minds because dungeons actually took a bit of thought again.

Stonecore HC before they nerfed that into the ground aswell

[Deathquoi]

And that's fair, but there needs to be an inbetween. You don't smash someone in the face with the nerf-hammer and call it good, you tweak it down bit by bit until it's more engaging. Maybe give a few mobs abilities to swap their focus to another target so a tank has to taunt them off or re-grab aggro every so often, things like that. Blizzard doesn't seem to know how to give a measured response to things, only massive responses.

No, this is exactly what Beta is for and what Blizzard should be doing. You make a change and then see what works and what doesn’t and iterate to find the sweet spot.

[Chaelexi]

And that's fair, but there needs to be an inbetween. You don't smash someone in the face with the nerf-hammer and call it good, you tweak it down bit by bit until it's more engaging. Maybe give a few mobs abilities to swap their focus to another target so a tank has to taunt them off or re-grab aggro every so often, things like that. Blizzard doesn't seem to know how to give a measured response to things, only massive responses.

I would rather them make the changes in an expac release and give people a fair notice instead of consistent nerfs to a style that currently exists. As for measured responses they do that through an xpac and adjust how stuff works as you play. Right now people will have to learn to be more engaged on the DPS side and hold your cooldowns for a bit.

[The Stormbringer]

This is literally the beginning of every expansion ever.

In the Beta, everyone's gear is low, people are trying new classes, learning the rotations. You're comparing end-game Legion to Beta BFA, and claiming it doesn't feel the same in dungeons and there's no in-between, right? If so, that's an odd assertion to make. I'm pretty sure every expansion ends with people rushing through old content easily, and new expansions begin with players being more cautious and unfamiliar in fresh content.

The tanks I play with regularly still mark targets, and if you see players ignore priority targets in competitive dungeons (ie, high mythic+ keys) they're just doing it wrong. That's not the game's fault.

I wasn't talking about high-end gameplay, I was talking about PUGs and LFD.

[Deathquoi]

The idea to care about aggro will allow good equipped players to troll random dungeon groups or LFR very effectively. By annoying the tank with stealing aggro and kiting bosses around, pulling them into the crowd when the boss does AOE.

Yep, blizzard wants to troll Dungeon finder groups.

I can’t tell if you’re serious or not. If you are, this is real dumb.

[Vpuh]

And second....since yesterday, they also decided to change the threat generation-preservation mechanism, to a "Burning Crusade" experience...

What point of this tread?These changes for treat generation have been in game since start of the beta. Yesterday they just explained the mechanics of the changes.

[infinitemeridian]

Are people really having trouble holding threat in the beta? I've tanked a ton of dungeons in the beta and had no issues holding threat.

I love how the title is "overcasualisation", then talks about how hard the game has gotten.