What are we paying $50 + $15 for?

[Leih]

Rember when ICC released in wings like LFR, but literally for not LFR.

That was lame, really. But I'm talking about staggering raid content away from the release of the expansion.

Staggering out raid content boss-by-boss like they did in Sunwell, TotC and ICC sucked. But thankfully they haven't done that again since those days.

Totally different thing though

[Aoyi]

Most of the things mentioned in the OP are available in a 2 week window from launch. Its how its been done for the last couple expansions to avoid the must play non-stop to get to raid gameplay. I don't really see many guilds complaining that they get 2 weeks to prep for their world first runs. There's really nothing saying you have to buy it on the launch day either if you want to stress yourself out. If you want to get the experience of everything being available, but you literally cannot access it because you're 110, then that's available to you. Have fun stressing yourself out. The rest of us will play at our own pace and treat the raid launch dates as our prep goals.

Also, how can you in all honesty complain about "no allied races at launch"? That wasn't a thing until this expansion and you do get it at launch unless you pre-ordered. If you pre-ordered, you got 4 allied races months earlier. That's like complaining there was no demon hunter at launch for Legion.

[Deleted]

It's hilarious how you are not allowed to have a negative opinion about any changes, expansions etc. Every time you have an unpopular opinion it's "quit the game scrubnub". I think it's very valid to ask what exactly we are paying 50 dollars for. Legion was amazing and gave us a lot of really cool shit - Order halls, artifacts and mythic+ were all a huge success IMO. I've asked myself multiple times what exactly I'm getting with BFA, and so far it seems we get 1) A watered down artifact system and 2) Slightly glorified scenarios (remember those in MOP? Nope! Me neither, nobody bothered once they got their reward)

[Soluna]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

Idk, 6 questing zones, 10 new dungeons, hundreds of world quests, a story, a raid that will literally launch a few weeks after expansion launch, plenty reworked specs, tons of new collectibles, new features like azerite armor, warfronts and isles? New pet battle content, war mode, etc etc.

You get an allied race at launch, that's mag'har orcs and DI dwarves. Now, if you are stupid and can't understand that a race is not the same as an allied race, and you have to do your faction's campaign to unlock it, well not our fault. PvP seasons and m+ are coming shortly after launch, the reason these and the raids are not available at launch is to let players enjoy the first few weeks of levelling their character, an alt or two, professions, and get geared before raids.

I am not sure how unleashing all the content right on launch would be healthy for anyone but the most casual players. People like me would have to play first 48 hours to get my main and an alt ready for splits, and then dive straight into raiding. Heck I wouldn't even be able to appreciate the new story for which I am hyped about.

This is how the game has been ever since MoP, it's been happening for 6 years now, are you a new player? Cause it sounds like it. If you've been to any expac launch since mop, that's how the game has been. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to pay little crybaby :')

[Notshauna]

I've spent more on Magic the Gathering than I ever have in all the years I've played WoW. And some of the cards I have have gone UP in value(one was worth like $1800 or so. Near mint condition Beta Force Field).

To be fair, back in WotLK a friend of mine sold his WoW account for $400. Not sure you could still get away with that today, though.

It depends wildly on how you play magic as to how expensive it is and how much value it retains. If you are building a Modern, Legacy, Commander or even Vintage deck the value will very likely be retained, cubes also tend to hold their value. If you're drafting, building Brawl or Standard decks you'll like have very poor value retention.

I pretty much am only interested in Commander these days, and thus far my cards have held their value (actually rising a couple dollars over the last few years) so if I wanted to get out of magic I'd eat a relatively small loss compared to when quit WoW (where I have received a 100% loss).

Selling accounts was kind of a thing pre-Battle.net but it's super small now, basically outside of ridiculous situations random WoW accounts are worth nearly nothing.

[Lochton]

I wouldn't say so, even notoriously expensive hobbies actually are cheaper than WoW in the long run, but they simply require a larger initial investment. They also tend to retain their value when WoW has extremely poor value retention. Like it's not super expensive in the long run, but it's one of the few hobbies that require a repeated investment with no value retention.

Well, even playing soccer demands repeated investment. Being a movie geek is repeated investment. Being a photography nerd is repeated investment. Heck, even collecting Warhammer is repeated investment. Tinkering with my drone or build a new robot is repeated investment. Heck, even my car is repeated investment. My gym membership is repeated investment too.

Calculated with the years I've played WoW vs. that of any of my hobbies, it still falls cheaper.

[Soluna]

You're nuts if you think Overwatch paid for itself and the absolute mountain of money they are pouring in it right now to get the league off the ground. It's not terrible terrible, but it's still garbage from my pov. My point was that I paid around $400 just for access to WoW since Legion came out and more of that money went into other projects.

Paying the money is not the problem. But do I feel like Blizzard rewarded me with $400 worth of entertainment in the game? Nah. The choice is binary. I'd be more than happy to pay $200 for the last 2 years, but the only other option is not having access at all if I like to log in a couple times a month.

Depends, most new titles that cost 60 dollars out there or 70 last for 20-30 hours. Playing the expansion launch alone of Legion is easily 200 hours in the first 2-3 weeks, if not more for some. I'd say you definitely gotten your money's worth.

[Moozart]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

Wait... your still unable to make enough gold to pay for wow? I cant remember the last time I paid USD for anything in wow, I used gold to even get my Deluxe edition BFA. I also play on a VERY limited schedule now and still manage making enough gold for sub.

With as easy as gold making is now if you cant make enough to cover the sub that is really on you.

[Raelbo]

So with all these things not available at launch, I think the point here is: Why buy it at launch at all?

Certainly a valid point if you no interest in the things that are available at launch. That being said, what is really the benefit of not buying at launch? Maybe you save yourself a few $ of subscription, assuming you have no interest in playing WoW at all during that period.

And the other question that begs to be answered: Why AREN'T all these things available at launch?

There are several reasons, some stated, some surmised. You got close on some of the reasons but then dismissed them for some reason:

Is it to give people time to level(because that's NEVER taken a long time)?

No, it's to give people time to level at their own pace, rather than a pace dictated by those who are rushing to be the first into the new raid. This is the primary driver of their philosophy.

Not everyone wants to rush content. Some people actually want to experience the story. And when some of the people happen to be the same people as those who want to raid competitively, it sets up a shitty dilemma. In the grand scheme of things it makes very little difference if the raid start is delayed by a few weeks. The total amount of raid content is not going to change, it simply requires that those who are eager have a little patience.

Or to let people ease into new content or mechanics? That seems to have been well-covered by the beta and PTR.

Not everyone plays in beta and PTR. Not everyone wants to either. So there is, absolutely, value in giving people enough time to adjust to the new mechanics. It should never be a requirement to play beta so that you can be ready to raid at the start of the expansion.


Another reason that you missed, is that it enables them to meet hard deadlines for the expansion release date. It means that they can focus on finishing up everything that needs to be there at release, putting a pause on the things that can be finished up a few weeks after release. It's the same principle as a chef opening with starters, giving him time to finish preparing the main course, and then preparing dessert while people are busy with the main course. It's better than making the customer wait (hungry) for all the food to be prepared before starting the meal.

[Corroc]

I'm using a forced false equivalence because every time I've tried to point out the flaws with Pathfinder on their own, people inevitably glaze over and start being Blizzard apologists and white knights. In order to get people to understand the point, I'm forced to use something they actually care about as a proxy for flight. I don't like it, but nothing else has a chance in hell of working.

Have you ever thought that you could actually win debate by arguing with the facts instead of relying on throwing ad hominem?

[Nattwenny]

A short and simple google search will tell anyone what they are getting, which is plenty and nothing that the other expansions didn't bring to the table. Whining about it and using falsehoods and half-truths to try and prove a point does nothing as far as positive criticism is supposed to go. A lot of people see through that and are tired of the negative garbage that is abundant in the wow community. This is a game we all supposedly love enough to even visit a site like this yet most have nothing good to say.

[FelPlague]

It's hilarious how you are not allowed to have a negative opinion about any changes, expansions etc. Every time you have an unpopular opinion it's "quit the game scrubnub". I think it's very valid to ask what exactly we are paying 50 dollars for. Legion was amazing and gave us a lot of really cool shit - Order halls, artifacts and mythic+ were all a huge success IMO. I've asked myself multiple times what exactly I'm getting with BFA, and so far it seems we get 1) A watered down artifact system and 2) Slightly glorified scenarios (remember those in MOP? Nope! Me neither, nobody bothered once they got their reward)

There is a difference between
"I dislike this, and this is why, i would have prefered something like this, what do you think"

and
"Look at all this shit that i have to wait 2 weeks to get, this is bullshit, why are you all wasting your money no lifers"
also
Watered down? No, there is less water as every item is unique and people will be differant now instead of everyone having the same stuff like wiht artifacts.
slightly glorified scenarios? they are completly random, and have super cool Ai, you artn doing a quest, you are doing whatever you want.

You also seem to ignore warmode, warfronts, world scaling, new zones, quests raids dungeons, allied races. But hey yeah only 2 things being added, and so minor...



And no like lots of people remember the mop scenarios they were fun, but unlike island expeditions, they ran out of rewards.

[Tarba]

No class balance at launch - never happened
No raids at launch - you don't need it the first week
No allied races at launch - they are, you'll have to grind to unlock them
No mythic+ at launch - you don't need it the first week
No PvP seasons at launch - make absolutely no sense the first week
No flying at launch - only wanted at launch by point and click retard players

[MisterBigglez]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

1. Hey my class is doing fine kek. But yeah no excuse really to go into an expansion with unfinished class designs.
2. This isn't a bad thing. It means noone will feel rushed to get to max and grind as much as possible. People still will ofc, me included, but it's a bit of relief for those who can't take the time out of work at the beginning to jump in and start grinding.
3. Not exactly true. You can get Dark Iron and Mag'har, you just need to put a little thing called effort into the game to unlock them.
4. It wasn't available straight away in Legion. See #2
5. See #2
6. Good. Flying has always been a mistake and this method of locking the ability to fly for a while is great.

The majority of things above will be out within a few weeks. Not the next patch. Stop being overdramatic.

[KYH]

We've been sorely overpaying for WoW for a while now. Feels great to fund garbage like HotS or Overwatch, eh?

Garbage because you're not good at them?

[HumbleDuck]

Are you really whining about the first two weeks?

[Tiwack]

Just wait with buying-in, till it's been a couple weeks/months. There's no-one forcing you but yourself. Maybe reflect on your values and priorities a bit if these business decisions upset you. Choose accordingly.

[Deleted]

Agreed with OP. This gating is just to appeal for people who level slow and spend 2 weeks to level one toon.

[Polarthief]

We've been sorely overpaying for WoW for a while now.

Yeah, ever since the WoW Token+BNet Balance, I've paid a whopping $0.00 for any/all Blizzard products.

While I agree a lot of shit is overpriced (especially services like transfers and race changes), I don't really have a problem with buying new expansions. The sub price can definitely fuck off though.

[Sencha]

Agree. Ion said that they don't have enough time to look at all specs. So let's release another half assed expansion where most specs are awful to play because we only started to look at class design 6 months before release. So your spec will be a copy paste from previous expansion. Cheers.

Oh and thanks for the tons of good feedback but we don't read it because we are busy putting all CD on the GCD.