Vegans against eating animals but no response about abortions.

[Mister Cheese]

I don't see how people in here can miss the point of "If you're vegan then you should be against abortion because all life should be protected." Why is that so hard to grasp? That seems pretty hypocritical of them.

[Christan]

An auto accident you caused made someone need your kidney, we now have the right to take your kidney and give it to them, thanks!

Chances of someone causing such an accident, while also being a donor match are pretty absurd, but if it actually happened, i could see a lawsuit happening over it(lol) but tbh dialysys...the persons life without a kidney is hampered yes, but wont kill them, plus you used singular, a human body can operate without medical intervention with one of the two kidneys.

So why donate someone who lost a kidney when their life isnt effected besides pain from the accident itself? Because they have their other kidney. (Ofc i bet you will reply with a qualifyig statement saying they lost both kidneys)

Which i’d reply the person who caused the accident can donate one of their kidneys and not suffer medically which is why i said a lawsuit initially, unless the person is kindhearted and offers it up on a platter.


But... you’re talking about a car wreck so..
National donor registry, what fraction of people could be donor matches multiplied by what fraction of the national population is in your city, multiplied by chances of getting in a wreck(could be multiplied further in large cities/your chances of causing a wreck)
Furter multiplied by the chances of not having an std, for both people.

have driven for 20 years without a wreck, you causing one will be low enough as to not be zero.


Basically go win the lottery a few weeks in a row.
and get struck by lightning 4x while being eaten by a shark...on the same day.

[Total Crica]

my autonomy is taken away because I'd get put in jail

You still are misunderstanding bodily autonomy. No one is USING YOUR BODY when they put you in jail.

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Chances of someone causing such an accident, while also being a donor match are pretty absurd, but if it actually happened, i could see a lawsuit happening over it(lol) bit tbh dialysys the persons life without a kidney is hampered yes, but wont kill them, plus you used singular, a human body can operate without medical intervention with one of the two kidneys.

So why donate someone who lost a kidney when their life isnt effected besides pain from the accident itself?

Switch kidney with ANY OTHER ORGAN they would die without the use of, like a non-viable fetus would die without the use of a woman's womb.

[Lollis]

But that's not the point I'm talking about, a foetus needs someone to survive, as does a baby. They aren't very different at all.

Are you actually fucking kidding me? It is COMPLETELY different.

A foetus depends directly on the mother to survive full stop. If the foetus is removed from the womb before it is viable it fucking dies.

[Grythletubs]

What about a baby? That's completely dependent on a woman's body as well

That's what I just said. A woman should not be forced to carry something she doesn't want. Even if you're anti-abortion it really comes down to the common sense that someone has the right over their own body.

When science magically finds a way to transfer unwanted pregnancies from the women to you anti-choice folks, THEN we can talk.

[Total Crica]

if someone needed my kidney and I was literally the cause of them needing it? Sure

They would have a RIGHT to use ANY of your organs that you caused them to need to use, regardless if you agree or not. That's how rights work.

[Uncle]

Hi, i just wanted to say keep going, it's very entertaining to read that while my meat is being cooked.

[Eviscero]

But when you're talking about a group of people that thinks eating eggs is cruelty to animals, how is that not cognitive dissonance?

I understand why a thoughtless pro-lifer would want this to be the vegan position, because it would be easy to argue that such a position is inconsistent or even hypocritical. The problem is, I have literally never heard a single vegan suggest that eating eggs is cruelty to animals. It is the conditions in which the adult chickens are kept which trigger vegans to swear off buying eggs, i.e. supporting egg farms. I know it's incredibly nuanced, so I'm not at all bothered by having to explain why what you said is completely disingenuous (sarcasm).

And btw, I am as far from vegan as one can be.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

But they're telling me I can't be free

So? They're not taking away your bodily autonomy, they're taking away your liberty. You still retain the rights to your own body, what is restricted is your ability to choose your location. It sounds like you don't understand the differences between bodily autonomy and liberty.

[NineSpine]

Because you dying/ needing a kidney isn't caused by me, unless the fact you need a new kidney is because I force fed you alcohol for years. My autonomy isn't affecting you in anyway in this scenario. That's two shit stawmans in two posts, gonna go for the hat-trick?

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I genuinely cannot imagine what having a mind like this is right, these stawmans and false comparisons is amazing. Today I learnt that to not agree with abortion, you must give away all your organs. Thanks guys

You are telling us that bodily autonomy is something you only believe in until it involves a pregnant woman, and you don't seem to be able to demonstrate why. You inadvertantly exposed your true issue in your response: "Because you dying/ needing a kidney isn't caused by me,"

There it is. This isn't about abortion. This isn't about life. This is about your perception that women are getting away with something by getting an abortion. They are getting away from a punishment that you insist they deserve for a transgression.

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You call me an awful debater but you make no points yourself and just lose your shit after one post that disagrees with you. I genuinely suspect you might be a narcissist or at least have a very unrealistic expectation of how much stock people put into your words. They gotta actually mean something pal, yours, unfortunately - don't.

"You're a bad debater, now here are some ad hominem attacks."

[omeomorfismo]

why they should answer? isnt like that vegans are monolithic group. there are vegan pro and vegan against abortion, like all other groups (that clearly arent specifically the pro and the against abortion group)

[Total Crica]

But they're telling me I can't be free

Being prevented from doing something has nothing to do with bodily autonomy.

[Sky High]

"You're a bad debater, now here are some ad hominem attacks."

it's hilarious, right? no semblance of self awareness to be found in that one.

[Eviscero]

Well, I just would say it doesn't really matter if you don't want it, that's a life.

I love when people who know less than nothing just declare their emotion-based beliefs as fact.

[Total Crica]

So it's not alive then?

A woman's egg is alive even before a sperm penetrates it.

What does a fetus being alive have to do with anything?

[Sky High]

it's hilarious that just trying to engage with you means that person is mad or in fact feeling anything emotional when they respond to you. it really comes off like you're a disingenuous hack or a soft soul who needs his safe space from all the angwy people on the internet.

[DSRilk]

If you are pro-abortion, you shouldn't give a fuck for the life of animals who have not yet been born.l

But when you're talking about a group of people that thinks eating eggs is cruelty to animals, how is that not cognitive dissonance?

Because that's not why they don't eat eggs. They don't eat eggs because they believe the conditions in which the animals are kept in order to get the eggs and milk is unacceptable. As a side note, it's not pro-abortion: pro choice people aren't hoping people have to have abortions; as a general rule, they'd prefer if they just used contraception.

[Techno-Druid]

Those pro life vegans should be ashamed...theyre killing off hundreds of bugs/rodents by eating their food.

So because some animals die in the growing and harvesting of crops, that suddenly makes it justifiable to kill billions of others? Cars kill a rough estimate of 40,000 people per year, does that make murder justifiable?

Plants create oxygen and absorb co2, cows produce co2 and absorb oxygen.
Plants also help purify water.

Yep, and you know a major source of the Earth's oxygen? The Amazon Rainforest, which is responsible for producing 20% of the Earth's oxygen. Nearly 70% of the land burned and cleared in the Amazon goes into land for cattle grazing and most of the remaining land is used to grow crops to feed livestock.

By eating meat i am helping the world have more oxygen, less co2, and purer water.

Joking aside, the whole “xyz wants to live” with how humanity treats the world, only species we use for food will survive, maybe some smaller wild animals, but as we take over habitats etc more species are becoming extinct.

There are 10,000,000 species in the Amazon Rainforest, as mentioned before, most of that land goes into livestock. Why do you think farmers in Africa shoot vulnerable lions and endangered cheetahs? You think they're doing it because the lions look big and ugly? Do you think they're doing it because those damn cheetahs of getting into a wheat again? No, they're doing it because they're perceived as threats to livestock.

So in effect we humans will make sure our food species will survive, which means as a whole they will live.

Too many of one species is never a good thing. Overpopulated populations of elk overgrazed much of the lowlands areas of Yellowstone prior to the reintroduction of the gray wolf and thousands continue to be spent on damage control for overgrazing populations of red deer. Ecosystems are built off of an ecological homeostasis, if you remove certain species the whole system will tumble down and it can take thousands of years to bounce back.

But tbh, no species we use as food are self aware, none have passed the mirror test, none have their own language(dolphins elephants) none can learn language(sign language-great apes) etc...
but somehow they are supposed to be cognizant enough to “want to live” other than their dna telling them to?

Pigs can often outsmart dogs and are on about the same intellectual level as our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, according to a new paper.

The research project, described in a paper published in the International Journal of Comparative Psychology, aims to put a face on animals that are traditionally just viewed as sources of meat.

If thats the case then plants also want to live(dna telling them to) and without human intervention plants eventually evolve self defense mechanisms(thorns spikes poisons etc)

Plants respond to stimuli but they cannot feel pain. To process pain you must have a brain and a nervous system, plants have neither. On the other hand it's extremely easy to tell when a pig or a cow is in physical pain.

We, as mammals, all share the basic 'equipment'. Capable of processing happiness, sadness, pain, displeasure, etc. Now obviously the things that cause the part of the brain (the caudate nuclear) of a cow or dog is far more simple, they don't go through existential crisis or feel bad about being dumped by their ex-girlfriend, but they ultimately function the same way we function.

[Total Crica]

on it's way to becoming a human

All human eggs are on the way to becoming human, regardless if a sperm penetrates them or not.

Once a human egg dies, before or after a sperm penetrates it but before it's born, whoever it could have developed into will never be born.

What does that have to do with bodily autonomy, a fetus being a person, or it having rights?

[DSRilk]

So I saw this video on youtube about a bunch of vegans protesting the eating of animals because the animals don't want to die. But as soon as the reporter asked them their stance on abortions they said they didn't want to comment. I find it hypocritical myself. What do you guys think?

I think you truly don't understand either vegans or pro-choice supporters if you think it's hypocritical. The key is that people who are pro-choice do not believe a fetus within a given time frame is a sentient, living human who can think and feel pain, etc. On the other hand, a cow is sentient, living, can feel pain, and forms bonds with its offspring. You may disagree with a pro-choice person's definition of when human life starts, but if you understand their position (that it hasn't yet in the time frame abortions are allowed), then it is a totally logical assertion and is in no way in contradiction with how we treat living animals.