Is immigration to countries like the United States a universal human right?

[Deleted]

I see you have 2 posts, welcome to the forum.

Translation:
WAAH WAAH WAAH. I'm a fuckwitted American that must be protected whilst making ugly racist sentiments by pathetic, whining appeals to authority.

[Independent voter]

Translation:
WAAH WAAH WAAH. I'm a fuckwitted American that must be protected whilst making ugly racist sentiments by pathetic, whining appeals to authority.

/pat

/pat

[Draco-Onis]

Border Patrol is catching between 1,000 and 1,500 illegals a day.

[crusadernero]

Is it a western(NOTE, IM NOT SAYING JUST US) right to more or less steal resources from third world countries so we can keep on living with high standards?

Doesnt each and every human on earth have the right to create a good life? No? Is it only for us lucky enough born in the right country?

[S7orm]

If anything, it's selfish

[Deleted]

Is it a western(NOTE, IM NOT SAYING JUST US) right to more or less steal resources from third world countries so we can keep on living with high standards?

Doesnt each and every human on earth have the right to create a good life? No? Is it only for us lucky enough born in the right country?

Thats pretty much what Trump teaches the americans. And he justifiec is by all the US has done in the past, like any of the people alive over there now has done a single thing to make the US great.

The US is reverting to a them and us mentality under trump thats gonna damage their rep for years to come and apparently a large part of the population is simply not clever enough to understand their might be some negative concequences form this since "who the fuck cares what they think about us, we can support ouself".

[Themerlin]

Thats pretty much what Trump teaches the americans. And he justifiec is by all the US has done in the past, like any of the people alive over there now has done a single thing to make the US great.

The US is reverting to a them and us mentality under trump thats gonna damage their rep for years to come and apparently a large part of the population is simply not clever enough to understand their might be some negative concequences form this since "who the fuck cares what they think about us, we can support ouself".

Hardcore capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.
Economic/Cultural Isolationism for the poor, Globalism for the Rich.

A culture of Dichotomy has taken over the US.

[Tabrotar]

I'mma stop you right there.

Now, ladies and gentlemen of the thread, take a look at this sentence fragment. The OP has already poorly constructed their argument. Words like "many" are often a proof surrogate, i.e, something someone (Like the OP) says without any actual concept of the number that they assert as truth because it fits their narrative, hoping no one calls them on it. Then, when someone attacks their derived point instead of their original fallacious concept from which it was derived, they essentially yield that the OP was correct in something that they actually just made up.

I'd suggest people not take to such things so kindly; it's a very dishonest and shoddy way of attempting to form an argument. Hell, even wikipedia would call that shit out with a ^[who?] superscript.


At any rate, immigration might not be a "universal human right" but the United States, being founded on immigrants, should make it as easy as possible to allow people (especially families) to immigrate to the country and integrate into American society. They get jobs, they pay taxes, they become like any other American citizen.


And before people launch off with "butbutbut the mexicans...", I'm just going to cut you off right there: The US has had its number of immigration nay-sayers over the years, from the "no chinese" to the "no Irish" to the "no catholics" to the "no Germans" to the "no Japanese" and so on and so forth. Each xenophobic group back then had its own reasons that these "others" would be a drain on the United States and it proved false every. Single. Time.

This is just the latest in an unfortunate and wrong-side-of-history way saying "no mexicans" because politicians find it an easy drum to beat to scare people into voting for them.

And where´s your proof that they will gets jobs and integrate hm?

Or is it just your ideology that let you think that?

[Kaleredar]

And where´s your proof that they will gets jobs and integrate hm?

Or is it just your ideology that let you think that?

My proof is that that has largely been the case for immigrants lo these past nearly 300 years of US history, and the fact that the vast majority (~95%) of people of Latino descent are not currently considered "unemployed."

[crusadernero]

Thats pretty much what Trump teaches the americans. And he justifiec is by all the US has done in the past, like any of the people alive over there now has done a single thing to make the US great.

The US is reverting to a them and us mentality under trump thats gonna damage their rep for years to come and apparently a large part of the population is simply not clever enough to understand their might be some negative concequences form this since "who the fuck cares what they think about us, we can support ouself".

Yeah the US is doing what they can to divide themself from pretty much everyone now. Imagine if the US lost everything they had abroad of resources they are taking from other countries. They would be in trouble

[valax]

Hell no , you must have hit your head on concrete to thinks it's a human right to have free access to every country.
It's the country's institutions that should decide if they want you in or not.

[owbu]

No. Asylum is a right you can have under spefic circumstances and everyone has the right to have those circumstances checked before being send home, when they enter a country they seek asylum in.

Immigration is clearly not a right. The goverment has to decide if you can stay or not. Which, I think, not a lot of people want to change.

What seems to be not quite clear to everyone is that those immigrants still have all the other basic human rights, while waiting for their immigration to be approved/denied.

[Netherius]

it is most certainly not.

it is a human right to be able to live in peace and relative comfort though. to that end, if it were up to me, i would try to work with central and south american governments to eradicate the problems causing people to want to migrate in the first place.

That wouldn't solve people wanting to come to the United States. Some of those countries have perfectly fine governments and economies, sometimes people just want to move here and I'm proud of that.

I believe in a vetting process, but other than that....come on in, the waters warm. Just be ready to forget your old countries problems and help us tackle ours....or yours now that you live here.

[d00mGuArD]

Is it a western(NOTE, IM NOT SAYING JUST US) right to more or less steal resources from third world countries so we can keep on living with high standards?

Totally. Stealing their most important resource, their HUMAN RESOURCE, is despicable and should not be allowed at all. Everyone should be denied entry on this basis really

[NihilSustinet]

It is a belief by many people that immigration to the United States is a universal human right. The leading candidate for president in Mexico recently said just this, suggesting that everyone in South America should pack up and head to the US. Is he right? And more broadly, could this be applied to all third world immigrants moving to first world countries?

By his line of reasoning, couldn't Exxon mobile just go into Mexico and start drilling for oil without paying the Mexican government? Recognition of borders is what stops countries from having to militarize their frontiers, and the attempted elimination of borders will inevitably result in scenarios like this.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/22/me...ration-speech/

this is a hard question to answer. i think the world should be one nation where country lines dont exist, and people are free to go where they please. obviously this is a dream we may never achieve, so it enters the realm of philosophy. does that make it not a human right, or a human right we are currently denied? personally ill go with the latter. so in reality, its not a human right we have, but in theory its a human right we should have, but are denied by the reality we live in.

[ranzino]

No of course not. No one has the right to illegally migrate to another country. If you want to migrate to a country, do so through legal means.

if it was a right, the "illegally" clause would evaporate immediately. just for imagination: apply the EU pillar of "free movement of people" to USA and its neighbours and everybody and their grandma would move.

For the "by legal means" part: even if every applicant is well behaving: you cannot take all of them in.

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You can apply for US citizenship, but there is no right that guarantees acceptance. Any country, not just the US, must reserve the right to refuse your application.

AFAIK ist has a built-in automatism: solve all questions in the citizenship test, have a clean criminal record, pay the fee and wait a bit and voila: you are in.
unless there is a sort of quota of "xxxx applications per year only" i forget to notice. feel free to correct me

[Najnaj]

Haiti: independant since 1804; France can hardly be accounted responsible for it's actual state.

Vietnam: the US intervention damaged the country much more than the previous war with France; however, the country as it's today, is relatively fine.

Cambodgia: what exactly as France to do with the situation?

Rwanda: the only implication of France was to try to stop the genocide; we are not and in any case responsible for it's happening.

Syria: France as not responsibility over the Syrian revolution and the only actions taken were symbolics, because our presidents didn't want to act without the US.

You are wrong on one count, Rwanda. Colonialism is very much responsible for the genocide. A minority group were given priority status based on their more European features alone. This meant better education, higher income and overall a better social status which is still in effect today. The resentment this caused was the main reason for the genocide.

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AFAIK ist has a built-in automatism: solve all questions in the citizenship test, have a clean criminal record, pay the fee and wait a bit and voila: you are in.
unless there is a sort of quota of "xxxx applications per year only" i forget to notice. feel free to correct me

Pretty much everything is wrong here so ...

There are no quotas and the citizen test is pretty much a formality that is easily gotten through. The problem is the conditions you need to meet to get immigrant status.

[Stormdash]

It is a belief by many people that immigration to the United States is a universal human right. The leading candidate for president in Mexico recently said just this, suggesting that everyone in South America should pack up and head to the US. Is he right? And more broadly, could this be applied to all third world immigrants moving to first world countries?

By his line of reasoning, couldn't Exxon mobile just go into Mexico and start drilling for oil without paying the Mexican government? Recognition of borders is what stops countries from having to militarize their frontiers, and the attempted elimination of borders will inevitably result in scenarios like this.

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/22/me...ration-speech/

It is not. If anything, the premise is an encroachment on human rights. Because after all, the right to property is a human right although a latter-day unpopular one, and the premise of the sovereign territory of a modern nation-state derives as a delegation of the rights its citizens have over their own property. Ipso facto, violating that state sovereignty is an affront to the property rights of its citizens.

[Draco-Onis]

My question is, why does every president of Mexico in recent memory seem to be alright with the fact that their country is complete shit and that they have a moral right to be a burden on the rest of the world? Immigration isn't a moral right for any person, period. If you don't care enough to make your own country worth living in, get fucked.

Hint - He isn't the president but a candidate.
Bigger hint - He didn't say that the op is wrong.

[yetgdhfgh]

Its definitely not

IMO South America can be fixed if we just changed our tactics on this failed war on drugs.

Drugs is the reason South America is in such a mess because its the number 1 money maker for them if we decriminalised most drugs then all those billions of dollars would stop pouring in the hands of Cartels and Gangs and maybe when peoples safety can be guaranteed in those countries investment and jobs is sure to follow.

Its not like the middle east where people kill each other over which part of the Koran is right or not cause South Americans all share the same religion.

Will this work? Not sure but it cant hurt to try.