Thread: IRS Scandal

Page 23 of 44 FirstFirst ...
13
21
22
23
24
25
33
... LastLast
  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    "They are most likely guilty because they pleaded the 5th."
    "They're not guilty until proven so beyond a reasonable doubt, and the 5th isn't evidence."
    You are correct, the 5th is not evidence of guilt or innocence. It may be speculated by those outside the court that it 'could' indicate some sort of guilt may be forthcoming. (as historically pleading the 5th did not turn out well for those who did.) But on it's own, it proves nothing, and just requires more investigation.

  2. #442
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So why do you *make* threads, and reply after reply, when you admit it is founded on baseless speculation. Then you berate others for calling out your speculation? Why?
    I'm going to second this. How can you call others out for baseless defenses with no facts, when you yourself have made claim after claim with no factual evidence to back it up? Your best and only defense of your wild speculations is that others agree with you. When called out for basically accusing Obama of orchestrating this whole thing, you play the victim, claiming you were "only speculating". When the obvious contradictions of Obama's orchestrations of this entire thing, not long after followed by accusations of Obama's gross incompetence in this whole affair for not managing things better, you have no real reply.

    Every single one of your arguments has been thoroughly dismantled as nothing more than wild claims without any supporting facts. As soon as you can provide something more than a "lots of people agree with me" we'll have a discussion. But there's really nothing more to discuss other than your unwillingness to see that your argument's foundation is made of sand.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSageCorban View Post
    You are correct, the 5th is not evidence of guilt or innocence. It may be speculated by those outside the court that it 'could' indicate some sort of guilt may be forthcoming. (as historically pleading the 5th did not turn out well for those who did.) But on it's own, it proves nothing, and just requires more investigation.
    That Lerner chick is fucked. Republicans are pissed that she targeted them and Democrats are pissed that she set this up to get media attention. She is getting thrown under the bus hard and rightfully so by Fox, MSNBC, and CNN is getting stories out of Oklahoma for rating..they will continue news reporting in a week

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    That Lerner chick is fucked. Republicans are pissed that she targeted them and Democrats are pissed that she set this up to get media attention. She is getting thrown under the bus hard and rightfully so by Fox, MSNBC, and CNN is getting stories out of Oklahoma for rating..they will continue news reporting in a week
    News outlets are not happy with the administration right now, considering the phone tapping scandal. I don't think they're going to let these go either.

    Edit: As far as how deep the Administration is involved, I am firmly "Not decided". I'll just wait to see how things pan out.
    Last edited by GreatSageCorban; 2013-05-24 at 03:17 PM.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So why do you *make* threads, and reply after reply, when you admit it is founded on baseless speculation. Then you berate others for calling out your speculation? Why?
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    So you think pleading the 5th makes her more likely to be guilty?

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    She didn't *confirm* anything. Frankly I could be hauled before Issa and it would probably be in my best interest to plead the 5th as well. Because if you happen to slip up in the least, he will try and get charges brought against you (even if they wouldn't hold) solely on the basis of politics. That fucker is slime at its ripest.

    I don't know why you have this mentality that we all need to be contributors of meaningful factual discussion when you make thread after thread and reply after reply founded in speculation. Seems a bit hypocritical, no?
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2013-05-24 at 03:31 PM.

  8. #448
    I'm curious if popular opinion always proves someone is right, or is that only when Vyxn is trying to justify his nonsense.

    I mean this isn't the first time he's done this.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    I'm going to second this. How can you call others out for baseless defenses with no facts, when you yourself have made claim after claim with no factual evidence to back it up? Your best and only defense of your wild speculations is that others agree with you. When called out for basically accusing Obama of orchestrating this whole thing, you play the victim, claiming you were "only speculating". When the obvious contradictions of Obama's orchestrations of this entire thing, not long after followed by accusations of Obama's gross incompetence in this whole affair for not managing things better, you have no real reply.

    Every single one of your arguments has been thoroughly dismantled as nothing more than wild claims without any supporting facts. As soon as you can provide something more than a "lots of people agree with me" we'll have a discussion. But there's really nothing more to discuss other than your unwillingness to see that your argument's foundation is made of sand.
    because i never tired to pass my speculation that Obama should shoulder some responsibility for what went on caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you. you tried to pass numerous falsehoods off as facts and i corrected all of them and now you have a vendetta because of me doing so
    Sorry my intention was not to make you look like a fool it is just the consequences of proving someone is misinformed

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    because i never tired to pass my speculation
    You've been doing this all thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you.
    Speaking of partisan bullshit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    it is just the consequences of proving someone is misinformed
    So misinformed = Not subscribing to speculation?

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    because i never tired to pass my speculation that Obama should shoulder some responsibility for what went on caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you.
    Kaleredar is right this is exactly what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post

    You: "he might be guilty"

    Everyone else: "there's no evidence to show he's guilty"

    You: "BUT HE MIGHT BE GUILTY!"

    Everyone else: "You can't call him guilty without any evidence"

    You: "WHOA WHOA WHOA HEY, I NEVER said he was guilty....




    ...But he might be guilty..."

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right this is exactly what you're doing.
    Yeah, that pretty much describes it to a T.

  13. #453
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    If you want a meaningful discussion of facts, you should probably provide some first.

    They should also be facts other than "I'm allowed to think what I want about the president and speculate as to his guilt," and "lots of Americans agree with me!"
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I'm curious if popular opinion always proves someone is right, or is that only when Vyxn is trying to justify his nonsense.

    I mean this isn't the first time he's done this.
    i have provided more facts and corrected more falsehoods that you will continue to ignore
    Its not my opinion but proven with facts and case study you cant make an opening statement and then plead the 5th. its not my opinion but proven with facts their wasn't a increase in IRS applications in the year the decided to do the illegal targeting. Its not my opinion but proven with facts it was only the conservative groups that was targeted. Its not my opinion but proven with facts it is illegal to do so under that hatch act. and its not my opinion but have proven with facts that Steven Miller has admitted the targeting was partisan, so unless you can disprove any of those facts you have nothing

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 11:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    If you want a meaningful discussion of facts, you should probably provide some first.

    They should also be facts other than "I'm allowed to think what I want about the president and speculate as to his guilt," and "lots of Americans agree with me!"
    read above

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Its not my opinion but proven with facts and case study you cant make an opening statement and then plead the 5th.
    Then why do the majority of constitutional lawyers say that you can invoke the 5th Amendment at any time?'

    Even in a trial, I can make testimony and invoke the 5th on cross examination, but of course then my testimony must be stricken and disregarded in its entirety.

  16. #456
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head but strike me once and I'm black instead...
    Posts
    1,451
    As far as how deep the Administration is involved, I am firmly "Not decided".
    Depends on what you mean by 'involved'. I don't believe that Obama sat down in 1-on-1 meetings with people at the IRS and personally instructed them to illegally and/or unethically use their political power target his ideological enemies. However, I do believe that Obama has a history of illegally and/or unethically using his political power to target his ideological enemies. I also believe that Obama is 100% comfortable with abusing his power that way, and that he deliberately hires people who have the same mindset.

    http://www.cis.org/renshon/obama-punish-our-enemies

    This was not a slip of the tongue, nor an accident, or a "poor choice of words". This is how Obama thinks. When you look at his past, his statements, his language, his campaigns, his tactics, and his behavior it is clear as a bell that Obama is totally OK with the concept of abusing political power to punish enemies and reward allies. That's a 'perk' of being a politician in his mind. It's just what you do. To NOT abuse power would be silly in his philosophy. That's what government is FOR to him ... a place you can go to have "positive rights" that tell you what government can DO to you.

    Moreover, he is not alone. Obama hires people into his administration that share his attitudes. When Obama says that he wants to use the power of government to make life harder for his political opposition he doesn't NEED to have a 'meeting' to put all his acolytes on the same page. They know that they are going to be defended and protected when they illegally and/or unethically use their political power to attack their ideological opponents. They know this because that were HIRED by people with the same attitude, who were in turn hired by the same kind of people. It's a big daisy-chain that starts at the top.

    From the lowest page to the CiC - the Federal government is infested with this attitude. And it isn't just Democrats and Liberals. Obama and his goon squads are probably the most blatant abusers of the system to date - but everyone there from stem to stern wants to work in government specifically BECAUSE it allows them to use its power to their advantage.

    That's why I think the whole system needs an enema. It's too big and too powerful. Too pervasive, and too prone to abuse. Too easy to misuse, and too difficult to turn around once it starts abusing. That's what happens when you let government get too powerful. Its time to slash it back to proper size and scope, and to castrate the ability of career politicians to abuse power by making it so government has very little power to abuse in the first place.

    The so-called testimonies of these bilge-rats in the IRS are just the perfect example of a much larger issue. They don't think they did anything wrong. They're still trying to blow this off as nothing. "No problem here. Nothing to see." Bullcrap. This is a big deal, and dozens - if not HUNDREDS - of people should be fired and go to jail for stuff like this. And I don't believe for one second that Obama didn't know exactly what was going on. But he's got plausible deniability so he'll skate away. But Eric Holder and every person in the IRS from top to bottom should be fired and replaced with an independent, non-government accounting firm that can be trusted. Because clearly government CAN'T be trusted any more. It's gotten too partisan and political.
    Last edited by The Riddler; 2013-05-24 at 03:47 PM.

  17. #457
    You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that Obama was involved, despite spouting nonsense about that for days now.

    Its not my opinion but proven with facts it was only the conservative groups that was targeted.
    http://www.salon.com/2013/05/15/meet...ked_democrats/

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You have yet to provide a single shred of evidence that Obama was involved, despite spouting nonsense about that for days now.


    http://www.salon.com/2013/05/15/meet...ked_democrats/
    Apparently 25% being conservatives = only conservatives were targeted in Vyxn's world.

    After all, he claims that only conservatives were targeted was a fact.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    because i never tired to pass my speculation that Obama should shoulder some responsibility for what went on caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. [snip]
    Speaking as a resident in the Western Burbs of Chicago - I have to say I'm getting REALLY sick of hearing you constantly say something so monumentally stupid and ignorant like "Chicago tactics" as if it was some given insult.

    If you disagree with his stances and how he does things - that's understandable. But don't sit here and try to belittle the name of our city as if we're somehow taken that we're sort of crime syndicate. It's really a jackass thing to do and is completely untrue...

    We understand you hate Obama and are fearful that he's doing a great job. We get it... but don't convert everything he's related to into some sort of vile conspiracy.
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2013-05-24 at 03:49 PM.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Apparently 25% being conservatives = only conservatives were targeted in Vyxn's world.

    After all, he claims that only conservatives were targeted was a fact.
    Maybe he thinks only conservatives were targeted, and the IRS just missed 75% of the time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •