Is it better for elves to just have their own faction? Is it viable? Should blizz?

[Kieldon]

While I would like to see it, it wouldn't be healthy for the game.

[Nerovar]

That's my thinking here, they are obviously failing their creation mandate in the current setting. As part of horde and alliance, their very detailed lore and complex development and diversity is often sideleined or rushed/ glossed over to make way for air time for the main stars of hte horde and allinace.

When they get too involved, or too popular on the ohorde, they're by their pretty and pristine nature changing the feel and look of the horde, and on the alliance they are being suffocated, not having the air time their rich lore and diversity needs to grow and be showcased as well.

It can't happen while they are part of the horde and alliance with the horde and alliance ofcus. . If factions are the focus of wow, then the elves need their own faction. If wow shifts to focusing on races instead rather than just humans and the horde (which is really humans and forskaen (undead humans) & orcs) or rather just humans, Sylvanas/Nathanos and orcs... ) then they need their own faction.

Definitely agree. Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes are reconcilable because they share many similarities when it comes to what they represent within the game. Same goes for Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins. When we imagine (or look at) an alliance settlement/garrison etc. we think of mostly human buildings (e.g a Tavern, Barracks) maybe a smithy with Dwarves, a workshop with Gnomes (up until Cataclysm usually also some kind of arcane High Elf building like in the Allerian Stronghold, Wintergarde Keep etc). They all share an orderly but plain and overall functional aesthetic. Night Elves simply don't fit in there which is also why you don't see them except for the occasional herbalist or trader (same goes for Draenei basically). But it's not as bad as with the Horde and the Blood Elves (and also Forsaken to some extent). Imagine a shiny fucking Sin'dorei tower amidst the dirty, spiky yet also charming hovels of a horde encampment. It's just not going to happen which is why they're always going to be underrepresented. They don't fit the themes of their factions.

And don't even get me started on the kind of cucked attitude a race has to have in order to prefer to side with races that are brutes from their point of view and slaughter their own kin instead of forming their own faction...

[Osiria]

But surely, a 3rd faction is exactly what would force them to focus on something outside humans and orcs -- they successfully did this in WC3 to everyone's liking right

They did in WC3 because back then the devs cared. WoW doesn't. WoW is designed with the mindset that "the game at the core is made for humans and orcs". There's nothing stopping Night Elves from getting the attention they deserved and be portrayed the way they were always meant to like in WC3, but devs bias thanks to this mindset, threw them under the bus, turned everything that was meaningful for them into some neutral crap just so the Horde (and humans) could feel better about themselves and have their druids.

A 3rd faction wouldn't even be necessary if they had the capacity to do a proper job. That company is a pile issues within, they care too much about money and they design the games like old people who don't want to change because the first game gives them nostalgia.

Not that it would be a problem to have a 3rd faction.

[Mace]

Definitely agree. Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes are reconcilable because they share many similarities when it comes to what they represent within the game. Same goes for Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, Goblins. When we imagine (or look at) an alliance settlement/garrison etc. we think of mostly human buildings (e.g a Tavern, Barracks) maybe a smithy with Dwarves, a workshop with Gnomes (up until Cataclysm usually also some kind of arcane High Elf building like in the Allerian Stronghold, Wintergarde Keep etc). They all share an orderly but plain and overall functional aesthetic. Night Elves simply don't fit in there which is also why you don't see them except for the occasional herbalist or trader (same goes for Draenei basically). But it's not as bad as with the Horde and the Blood Elves (and also Forsaken to some extent). Imagine a shiny fucking Sin'dorei tower amidst the dirty, spiky yet also charming hovels of a horde encampment. It's just not going to happen which is why they're always going to be underrepresented. They don't fit the themes of their factions.

And don't even get me started on the kind of cucked attitude a race has to have in order to prefer to side with races that are brutes from their point of view and slaughter their own kin instead of forming their own faction...

Yes, sadly. One of my biggest criticsms of wow is that better effoort shoudl have been made to incorporate the changes they have made for gameplay. When it was still an RTS, that didn't matter, content was stroy driven. the story drove where you went and what you saw, creating sensible conflicts etc. Gameplay focused on how you would engage the enemy not why. You didn't have to twist blood elves into joining a horde, or force night elve sinto alliance because your game system was built on two factions. Whetther you had two, 4 or 8 factions from the story it didnt' matter, you would play through all the campaigns. So story was pure story.

Not so in wow. changes to lore to make both genders the same, all factions access all classes, all races have accesst o as many classes as possible (c'mon orc mages? Tauren and Gnome priests?), and whiles all these developments are plausible, some of them are so 180 from the original direction they do require a much better build up that is never given.. till now Tauren priests look and feel weird, and while ihave no problem with highborne taught night elf mages, and have come to accept gnome priests.. i mean the rest? If anything we should have cut gnome warriors out or made them operate robots instead when rolliing a warrior.

What coudl have been huh.

- - - Updated - - -

A 3rd faction wouldn't even be necessary if they had the capacity to do a proper job. That company is a pile issues within, they care too much about money and they design the games like old people who don't want to change because the first game gives them nostalgia.

Not that it would be a problem to have a 3rd faction.

Now this I agree with.. I wouldn't even say "if they had the capacity", they clearly do having created these groups, it's more like "if they had the desire" .. I remember one of the few things that pissed me off about wow, was how unconcerned they were with portraying story properly in the game.. excuses like "it's an mmo format" doesn't do well for story telling, was b/s - especially when SWTOR came out and just put the mmo genre to shame - showing you can indeed tell a great story in an mmo - you just don't care enough.

What was weird was how very good the effort in art, gameplay, music, tech support, coding was (remember how they kept coming back with fixes, new stuff, interesting stuff) but the way stories were told didn't change till MoP, and we still had the unchanged quest text box.. where everyone else had improvements.. the way in telling the story has had the slowest and most careless effort.

Don't get me wrong, the actual quests themselves have been good.. mostly (some do make you go wtf..?) but they've generally told a good tale, ti's just the overall direction, the focus, the implementation, the effort to tell it better that has been so slow and far behind it is clear it was a secondary focus, despite us telling htem many time stit's one of hte most captivating aspects of your game.

[Powerogue]

They've developed subcultures at this point to where they hold very little in common. The night elves still distrust magic users, even after tolerating a handful of highborne in the wake of the Cataclysm. They've made it a point that such grudges aren't easily brushed away.

Overall, on a straightforward and surface level, this idea is ridiculous and stupid, I would mock it relentlessly if it happened.

[Mace]

The night elves still distrust magic users, even after tolerating a handful of highborne in the wake of the Cataclysm.]

I believe that is only Maiev that thought so, not all night elves, and I'm not even sure she still thinks so after Legion. I pay close attention to what they write about this race.
They don't show night elves distrusting mages, not fellow alliance draenei, humans etc.
They never showed night elves hating the arcane - only Maiev in this. They actually go out of the way to point out it is irresponsible magic users like the highborne who called the legion that most night elves have problem with. Magic abuse and addiction is whhat they hate and something they want rid of, not magic itself or usage.
They have shown that once the highborne were accepted in wolfheart, by the time you play through cataclysm, they are trusted by all but crazy acting Maiev. The struggle were with the highborne for their role in the war of the ancients, not because they use arcane magic. It's how they used it with such reckless abandon - even pre-sundering this was an issue, even with other highborne - so not all highborne could be lumped into that category, certainly Farondis' highborne and the highborne of MEnaar could not
The shen'dralar highborne led my Mordant Evenshade, like Estulan are referred to as uncorrupted highborne by druids and are trusted.


It just seems that people take Maiev's pov to represent all night elves, where a different picture is shown. The distrust is often reserved for those whose particular actions in the past warrant it, but human tendency is to quickly generalise and ignore the subtleties.

I've seen people say night elves still distrust magic users, this really isn't true, they distrust those who have given them reason to in the past, but once they prove themselves, they are fine. It was the same with Darth'remar and most night elves in wotA who used the arcane anyway, remember they oonly stopped to prevent the legion from returning switching mage craft for druid craft . When they met up with Kael'thas, the high elves, the humans etc, they didn't disturst their mages at all once humans could be trusted, there was nothing specifically written about not trusting magic or magic users.

The problem has been with the people who abused magic and with magic addiction. Why do you think night elves never joined Malygos' cause to rid the world of magic, blue dragons or any dragon (as all use magic) weren't on their distrust list, quite the contrary, the magic wielding dragons were revered and worked with.

Nor did they distrust the arcane to the arcane in and of itself, they used that well of eternity's waters for 10k years, and were flooded with its power, they still are filled with its power, they know arcane magic is a part of their entire race - the trouble with the well was that they at the time thought it was the only means that could bring back the legion, using arcane magic was therefore dangerous and prohibited, not because of hate for it, but to safeguard the world. Once this was no longer the issue after WC3, they lift their outdated ban, and accept some of their magic wielding kin back.

[yetgdhfgh]

Too late for 3 factions now

3 factions mightve worked maybe in BC where the game was still somewhat new but now its too late and would create such a headache i doubt it would ever be worth it!

[ReVnX]

Elf lovers are the worst kind of WoW fanboys...

[Big Mama]

I think they should. They really are their own thing and they convolute the horde and the alliance.


What I wonder is what their symbol would be as a faction. Pointy ears?

That is a designer's job. They should (and I believe they would) be able to deliver a crest that would represent the aspects of each of these races. Perhaps combining the sun and the moon together would be a good start. The pointy ears are not necessary at all. That would be a very cheap idea. I mean would humans, dwarves and gnomes put a classic looking ear into their own symbol? Very unlikely.

[ls-]

We're in TES now, where almost every race is some sort of elf.

[plz delete account]

Elves hating each other is a core theme. There’s no reason for a third faction, the community is split enough as it is.

You would also single handedly Kill the Horde and Alliance.

No you wouldn't. Alliance isn't 90% elf like the horde is.
More like 20%.

[Peacemoon]

The main problem with elves is that blood elves and night elves were put on the wrong faction to begin with. Too late now.

[Mace]

1. Is it viable from a lore point of view
No. The Night Elves have a long-standing hatred for the Highborn Elves, both the ones who stayed in the Suramar Bubble and those who they exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms, because of what happened at the Well of Eternity. It would take something ridiculously big to make them unite, and it would feel like it was only done to force them to unite rather than being a good idea for the plot.

[.

How does this make sense when the night elves havve allied with the highborne again? Accepted them back? Have no reason to hate the Farondis highborne either? And are on the same team as the high elves and void elves?

This argument doessn't make sense in the light of the lore. It only makes sense if you are one of those people who thinks every night elf has the same views as Maiev, even though both Wolfheart AND Illidan the novels make it clear she is really the only one. Even the few she manages to convince abandon her by the end of Wolfheart, and we see in Illidan that their loyalty keeps them following her orders, but they don't seem to share her vindictive vendetta.

She is not representative of some, most and certainly not all night elves. And if Maiev is not the source of this sentiment, then I am confused how you can think so when the lore has dealt quite thoroughly with this topic.

The night elves hate the naga highborne who are unrepentant for what they did. THe shen'dralar highborne did not summon the demons to our world, the night elf gripe with them was they took so long to get involve in the world in addition to their caste's reckless use and addiction is what spoilt their precious utopia they all built. Yet they accept them in, and the shen'dralar that come in prove they are neither magic addicts nor corrupted any longer.

The Farondis highborne though ghosts, were the very first to rebel against Azshara, they sparked the rebellion that grew, they represent the highborne as they were prior to arcane addiction as the only group that thoroughly maintained their noble roots and calling. Why would the night elves hate them at all? Ofc they don't. Night elves don't hate for no reason you know.

The Sunstrider highborne were part of the team in the palace calling the demons in, this is where most of the night elf hate for the highborne is written, yet unlike Azshara's lot they rebelled and join the Suramar rebellion too, and though for a while after the war they got the heat for the devastating invasion, they were accepted and lived with until they broke the ban on using arcane magic, this is where they got expelled. Now fast forward when the lore reveals that the night elves didn't need to restrict magic or refrain from it so totally to prevent the legion's return - given how successfully the high elves, shen'dralar and nightborne, as well as other races used magic without drawing the legion, the basis of hate from the night elves to the high elves is actually not strong. This is why Tyrande helps Kael'thas and the blood elves too until they go all reckless in their eyes by joining Illidan and doing what happens in TBC. The hate is far more from the Thalassian elf to the night elf for exiling them for what they view as foolish and superstitious reasons, and the reason why Elven dom has not been restored to the majesty it once was. Night elves have sat on the well of power, been infused with it, and refused to use it to help their own race. They could have carried out a vigil and allowed the highborne to get on with the business of restoring their broken civilization with all working together to ensure maigc was never abused again. Now having foresight of addiction and the price of it, they could have worked together, nature and the arcane wielders to ensure an even more prosperous future and certainly one that could have been far stronger to repel the burning legion unlike the first time where they didn't even have the well's use to fight the invaders.


Finally the nightborne. The night elves don't hate their kin at all, Tyrande is disappointed with their refusal to march on Zin'Azshari, but unlike the shen'dralar, the nightborne are not a pure highborne group, and they did fight. They closed the second portal opened up in Elune's temple, without which the Legion would have won the war. Led by Elisande, the remaining night elves of Suramar (because don't forget, Tyrande/Malfurion/JArod/Maiev are all from Suramar city itself, including Shandris, as was Ravencrest who's stronghold at the tip of Val'sharah a Suramar province, was the heart of the rebellion. So when we say the night elves of Suramar, we have to bear in mind both those that stayed in the city and those that marched on Zin'Azshari are the same in name. We will distinguish them by calling the ones that remained in the city Nightborne, as this is what they later become. THe night elves have no cause to hate them. There is no hate from Tyrande, no hate from farodin, on Thalyssra because she is a magic user either.


So I'm not sure where your theory comes from.

[Felixon]

I'm genuinely curious here, love to hear your thoughts on this. Given how popular they are, and given how their fans love their general set up and indvidualisation but hating how obscured they are by humans on the alliance and on horde, how they are really changing the authentic look and feel the horde has, is it better for the elves to just have their own faction?

After this 2 main questions remain:

1. Is it viable from a lore point of view -Ii mean currently white elves hate black elves apparently, even though they have many stories of them getting along (2 Thalassian elf groups are allied with the night elves and 1 night group is allied with the blood elves) - maybe the enmity was exaggerated intentionally at key periods to push an Alliance vs Horde enmity, and once they are out of that , it can play a far less important role in a push for unity.

Personally I think it can happen from a lore perspective, if blizzard could make the blood elves who hated the orcs actually join them, they can make the elven groups work together too, afterall, they have enough in the lore for friendship and healing to occur, and a lto less for them to descend into further hatred. Void elves and night elves, blood elves and nightborne - they're already half way there.



2. Is it distinctive enough? When you compare humans/dwarves/gnomes and Orcs/trolls/tauren do night elves/blood elves have the same degree of diversity and similarities the core and alliance and horde groups have? And are they of themselves different enough to the alliance and horde in their own right?

Personally I think they do and they are - though the alliance and horde have definitely been elvenised a bit, the elves are quite distinctive, the night elf world is already distinctive by it's night theme - it spans high society/arcane magic highborne nightborne, to devout moon goddess priests with their fierce female warrior fighters and forest loving dwelling and caretaking druids - characterised by a magical essence/nature with a love for nature - this is also shared by the blood elves, high elves and void elves who have also have a magical essence/nature and love for nature - the expression of these between the two core groups of elves has the variation you need. One is a sun/light day theme, the other moon/star night/darkness, and also has the distinction between it's races like you have in the horde and in the alliance.

Druids are different from priests and different from highborne/nightborne types, as well as blood elves are different from high elves who are different from void elves - they are distinct enough that every one knows they are different. No one confuses an amazonian warrior female senitnel/huntress or Moon Priestess with a nature wielding druid nor with an arcane empowered high society highborne. Likewise no one confuses the night group with the day group - highborne/nightborne are distinct enough from blood elves/high elves despite the high society similarity and at the same time no one confuses a Farstrider with a magister or with blood knight or paladin. A void elf definitely stands out from any night elf kind and every high or blood elf type. And well, despite their similarities, everyone knows the difference between high elves and blood elves is in the core of their philosophy.

Night elves regardless of their core devotion (arcane, Elune or nature) have a philosophy centred on harmony and balance, High elves on nobility, blood elves on ambition, void elves on learning and knowledge - and while all share the traits in the other. (i.e. all elves value harmony and balance - you can't say farstriders ignore this or magister want to disrupt this, and every elven group has a nobility they uphold though it is the main focus of the high elf, all are driven and ambitious in way no others are, although that is the main forte of the blood elves, and all elves aspire learning and knowledge - definitley your highborne/nightborne tyypes, and magisters, but also your druids and priests, farstriders etc. Yet each group has a clear distinctiveness in its philosophy.

Well,it wouldn't be completely impossible lorewise - since the night elves accepted the highborne back into their society,which was the main reason for the other elves to splinter,sail across the sea and later on become high elves. Yet the Blizzard would never do it - just imagine how low the population of the Alliance and especially the Horde would drop.If in the Alliance every 3rd pc is a night elf,then in the Horde every 2nd is a blood elf and they also got the nightborne now,so...

[Mace]

The main problem with elves is that blood elves and night elves were put on the wrong faction to begin with. Too late now.

Not necessarily. It seems that way in hindsight, but via lore, both night elves and blood elves would be on the same faction.

The only reason the night elf/blood elf hate is ramped up is because they're on different factions. Before the blood elves were used as a playable race, the night elf hatred for them was non-existant. Sure the expel story happened, but Tyrande is off helping Kael'thas and honouring the Sunstrider and highborne role in the WotA as a debt that needed repaying.

The hate is ramped up only after the blood elves are selected to go horde to foster allaince/horde antagonism, we cannot forget that.


In hindsight, the horde would not have had the population problems it had if the night elves opened up as being on the horde. They would have been an odd choice back then, but not as odd as the blood elves later. With the night elves on the horde, I feel the populations would have been balanced from the start. They gave the alliance 2 of the greatest races from WC3, the night elves were as popular in and of themselves as the horde and the alliance. To give them to the alliance was a huge shift. While the scourge was a faction in and of itself, it was the evil faction, Sylvanas who breaks free is full of bitterness and vengeance, her forsaken were no where near as popular.

If the night elves had joined the horde, the lore would have given reasons. Humans deforesting to build new stuff would have been a major issue to the night elves and drawn their ire, and it is just as valid as the horde deforesting stuff to build new homes.


Howevver if it wasn't for this binary faction system, by far the better option would have been for night elves to be their own faction, High elves/blood elves would have joined them too and hte lore written to facilitate that, Illidan would not necessarily have been made villain - we know he was made a villain to give TBC a major character to focus the plot on. Remember ? Wow was throwing all it's famous characters as boss fodder because it sucked at creating compelling stories it was using all the ones from the RTS game. It didn't have to, and it wouldn't have if they tried to tell a story like games like SWTOR and FFXIV actually try and succeed.

Which means Illidan would have contiuued being an anti-hero rather tahn all out villain, likely the blood elves and draenei would have joined the night elves as well, the naga would have been revealed as the real threat and mastermind behind, with evil plots and intentions.

It would have made sense that the elves actually were the 3rd major player group. They would have have had their diversity and differences too, and other races possibly the draenei would have joined them also. Worgen would have gone alliance with a different type of story, although they could have sent them to the elf faction with the story they got, Goblins would have gone horde, Pandas likely gone alliance.

Alliance:
Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Worgen or Draenei, Panda, Vrkul

Horde:
Orc, Tauren, Troll, Goblin, Mogu, Ethereal

Elf:
Kaldorei, Quel'dorei, Shal'dorei, Sin'dorei, Ren'dorei, Draenei or Worgen

[Spl4sh3r]

Any change to the faction system from a designer perspective is way to late now. These things should have been done from the beginning if they wanted it to be viable. If they suddenly turned them into a faction now, how do you think the balance would become? They can't force players in elf races to suddenly be part of the new faction either, so they'd either need to allow people to stay their race while being part of their old faction, or "faction change" to the new faction. Then they'd need to open up free faction changes for everyone else that wants to be part of the new faction, but isn't an elf. They'd need to incentify people to go to this new faction or there'd be no balance at all.

[Mace]

Well,it wouldn't be completely impossible lorewise - since the night elves accepted the highborne back into their society,which was the main reason for the other elves to splinter,sail across the sea and later on become high elves. Yet the Blizzard would never do it - just imagine how low the population of the Alliance and especially the Horde would drop.If in the Alliance every 3rd pc is a night elf,then in the Horde every 2nd is a blood elf and they also got the nightborne now,so...

Yes, this I have no answer for. Here is what i posted from another topic.

Population wise, smart games have always had a version of human in every faction and a version of elf to.

SWTOR had humans in both Empire and Republic - wow's population would not have suffered if they had made the forsaken more like the goth-like/vampire like necromancers of Diablo 3 instead of all hunched over. They would have been viewed more readily as Lordareon group of humans now cursed with an undeath affliction but more like a vampire than like a rotten corpse and their cool factor would have surged negating the need for either blood elves or night elves on the horde.

Remember the main reason elves are so popular is because they really look good. They refuse to make humans follow suit, but if the undead had the necromancer look instead of what they got, they'd have been hugely popular.

TESO - had human and elf in each faction, this was also a smart move, no one was over played because face it, the playerbase is human and most players, especially new ones would identify with humans first - they'd be your largest played race, so you have them in both faction. Elves are popular because they are very pretty, also having them in each faction too, will split their commanitly.

In a 3 faction system in wow, it's hard - becaue night elves are both your dark elf and wood elf combined, and the other elf group, the thalassian elf is quite it's own. I don't think a genuine 3rd elf group can exist in wow except if you utilised the naga, into the naga-elf - in the sea you transform into a monster by force, but on land you are this beautiful elvenaised humanoid with a pretty elven face and unique features like coral hair, patches of coloured scale on your white skin done in a beautiful way, you have eyes that aren't glowy but have huge irses the colour of different parts of the ocean with sparks of light in them reflecting power.

Each faction will have an elf group and human group.


Horde:
Forsaken (diablo 3 necromancer model instead)
Orc
Troll
Tauren
Naga-elf

Alliance:
Human
Dwarf
High elf (incl sin/ren'dorei variants)
Gnome

Night Elves:
Night elf (including kal/shal'dorei variants)
Worgen (would be your human version, probably with a unique human model)
Draenei
Pandaren


All factions have your human variation connecting humans across. All also have your gorgeous elf - sinister elf, to dark but noble elf, to glorious elf
Now with 3 factions split like this: which would be the most popular?

[Obelisk Kai]

Is it better for elves to just have their own faction?
If there was an elf-only faction there would be only 2 models, which would lead to the player character appearance being pretty boring. The factions we have right now have a lot more variety, even if the Horde is over 50% Blood Elves.

Is it viable?
No. The amount of changes that would need to be done to the game, ranging from redesigning entire zones (PvE and Battlegrounds) to the rules around who you can interact with in every part of the game would make the work bigger than Cataclysm. I don't think the resources would be worth the outcome.
Additionally, players who've been playing together for 10+ years would suddenly not be able to without paying money for a race change. It would shatter the playerbase.

Should blizz?
Absolutely not.

1. Is it viable from a lore point of view
No. The Night Elves have a long-standing hatred for the Highborn Elves, both the ones who stayed in the Suramar Bubble and those who they exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms, because of what happened at the Well of Eternity. It would take something ridiculously big to make them unite, and it would feel like it was only done to force them to unite rather than being a good idea for the plot.

2. Is it distinctive enough?
No. The faction would have only 2 player models even if the racials are different. Even adding in different architectural styles wouldn't be enough.

I completely agree with everything you say.

I know this might across as rude, but Mace has descended into postulating badly put together fan fiction. There is no other way to describe this.

There is no lore that supports any of what he is proposing beyond his personal view that the factions are wrong.

The amount of effort it would take to bring this to reality is staggering, not to mention the disruption faced by players as their factions are torn apart. And that's just a logistical objection, it leaves aside the fact that an unwarranted change of this magnitude would kill the game.

Players just won't stand for it. If they care about any factions, it is the Alliance and the Horde. Those are the factions that have the lore and the emotional investment and the rivalry that makes the faction system work. Putting together multiple new factions, tearing the current ones apart and then expecting the system to still work as it does now is just a delusional fantasy.

The Alliance and the Horde are the two most iconic factions in gaming. They are up there with the autobots and decepticons in terms of pop culture factional rivalries. You have fans chanting For the Horde and For the Alliance at conventions. You can't buy that kind of buzz and the developers would have to become certifiably insane...and I don't mean that as code for incompetence, I literally mean they'd have lost touch with reality to the point they'd all need to be committed for their own safety... to consider trashing that in favour of non entities nobody would care about.

It is far likelier Blizzard would just scrap the factions at some point rather than reconfigure everyone into a three faction system that everybody would hate.

By the way, are you the same Tobias who wrote this masterful work?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764968236

[Mace]

I completely agree with everything you say.

I know this might across as rude, but Mace has descended into postulating badly put together fan fiction. There is no other way to describe this.

There is no lore that supports any of what he is proposing beyond his personal view that the factions are wrong.

The amount of effort it would take to bring this to reality is staggering, not to mention the disruption faced by players as their factions are torn apart. And that's just a logistical objection, it leaves aside the fact that an unwarranted change of this magnitude would kill the game.

Players just won't stand for it. If they care about any factions, it is the Alliance and the Horde. Those are the factions that have the lore and the emotional investment and the rivalry that makes the faction system work. Putting together multiple new factions, tearing the current ones apart and then expecting the system to still work as it does now is just a delusional fantasy.

The Alliance and the Horde are the two most iconic factions in gaming. They are up there with the autobots and decepticons in terms of pop culture factional rivalries. You have fans chanting For the Horde and For the Alliance at conventions. You can't buy that kind of buzz and the developers would have to become certifiably insane...and I don't mean that as code for incompetence, I literally mean they'd have lost touch with reality to the point they'd all need to be committed for their own safety... to consider trashing that in favour of non entities nobody would care about.

It is far likelier Blizzard would just scrap the factions at some point rather than reconfigure everyone into a three faction system that everybody would hate.

By the way, are you the same Tobias who wrote this masterful work?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764968236

You do realize the reason there is a buzz between the horde and alliance only is because blizzard has chosen to make it so. Their game and franchise is popular enough that people would easily fill out for a 3rd faction if they built it up, just like we all were in WC3 right?

You do realize that in their actual game, ELVES make up the majority of the population too, the elf players care more about the elves than they do about either the horde or alliance.

You are saying warcraft's horde and alliance are iconic, anything new would mean nothing. I call that as b/s, you're making an assumption, blizzard hyped the two factions, they push their fans into horde and alliance, they can certainly make a meal of a 3rd faction, especially if you go by how the most loyal and vocal fans feel about elves and non-elves.

Most of the playing population don't give a shit, they are the vast majority, the writers and game dictate their loyalties, if they create a new identity, and push that in a good game, people will pick their side and continue. or do you think all those elf threads and popularity mean absolutely nothing? It's the fans that are driving this.

Blizzard has pushed humans and orcs down our throats, yet elves remain more popular. Add the human and orc population, then add the night elf and blood elf population. Iconic as autobots and decepticons? Haha, warcraft isn't half as big, only to us it is, but when you measure up against, Transformers, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel, DC. - warcraft is a small player that blew it's chance to go huge by messing up it's movie.

And if you ask me why the movie failed? It's because of the forced horde bias in the game that was only created to fix the population inbalance. Balanced population was good for game mechanics, but the entire story was changed and they started thinking horde, pusing horde, which while good for an mmo game, the story was rubbish in comparison to WC RTS, because an MMO can't show/tell a story well with that sort of effort.

When they made the movie, imo, the horde emphasis, was too unrelatable, everyone is afraid to make an 80s type star wars movie with a clear good and bad guy, people would have related to the humans, who got so little screen time, if the movies had shown the RTS story, with the horde as pure evil in WC1 and 2, then the great revelation of the legion in 3, it would have been more successful.

But all this is opinion, I can only tell you what the 3 warcraft noobies i took to see the movie commented on, all 3 of them. And as person who intimately knows the difference between the movie and the WC1 story and what was recast in a new light, this is my verdict that explains why the movie was a "wtf is this: I can't relate to any of this".

[Obelisk Kai]

You do realize the reason there is a buzz between the horde and alliance only is because blizzard has chosen to make it so. Their game and franchise is popular enough that people would easily fill out for a 3rd faction if they built it up, just like we all were in WC3 right?

You do realize that in their actual game, ELVES make up the majority of the population too, the elf players care more about the elves than they do about either the horde or alliance.

You are saying warcraft's horde and alliance are iconic, anything new would mean nothing. I call that as b/s, you're making an assumption, blizzard hyped the two factions, they push their fans into horde and alliance, they can certainly make a meal of a 3rd faction, especially if you go by how the most loyal and vocal fans feel about elves and non-elves.

Most of the playing population don't give a shit, they are the vast majority, the writers and game dictate their loyalties, if they create a new identity, and push that in a good game, people will pick their side and continue. or do you think all those elf threads and popularity mean absolutely nothing? It's the fans that are driving this.

Blizzard has pushed humans and orcs down our throats, yet elves remain more popular. Add the human and orc population, then add the night elf and blood elf population. Iconic as autobots and decepticons? Haha, warcraft isn't half as big, only to us it is, but when you measure up against, Transformers, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel, DC. - warcraft is a small player that blew it's chance to go huge by messing up it's movie.

And if you ask me why the movie failed? It's because of the forced horde bias in the game that was only created to fix the population inbalance. Balanced population was good for game mechanics, but the entire story was changed and they started thinking horde, pusing horde, which while good for an mmo game, the story was rubbish in comparison to WC RTS, because an MMO can't show/tell a story well with that sort of effort.

When they made the movie, imo, the horde emphasis, was too unrelatable, everyone is afraid to make an 80s type star wars movie with a clear good and bad guy, people would have related to the humans, who got so little screen time, if the movies had shown the RTS story, with the horde as pure evil in WC1 and 2, then the great revelation of the legion in 3, it would have been more successful.

But all this is opinion, I can only tell you what the 3 warcraft noobies i took to see the movie commented on, all 3 of them. And as person who intimately knows the difference between the movie and the WC1 story and what was recast in a new light, this is my verdict that explains why the movie was a "wtf is this: I can't relate to any of this".

Your obsession with Elves is getting the better of you.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ne-differences

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...g-to-Goldshire

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...for-Nightborne

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-elves-forward

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...re-Blood-elves

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...or-blood-elves

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...o-d-you-prefer

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...val-the-Titans!

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...d-of-the-elves

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Kirin-tor-too

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ighborne-thing

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-Nightborne

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-post-Elisande

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...the-nightborne

And that's just from the first page of your started threads history.

Yes, Elves are popular. My main is a Blood Elf. And it's fine to like Elves.

But where I, and I would like to think virtually everyone else, will draw the line is this idea to wreck both the Alliance and the Horde simply to reflect your own personal feelings on Elves and how the factions should seemingly be built around them at the cost of everything else.

The Alliance and the Horde are iconic within gaming, whether you like it or not. The factions you postulate exist solely to reflect the game world as you wish it to be and is not a reflection of the game world as it is. They would be soulless constructs and they would not be able to replicate the level of emotional investment people have with the existing factions. It took YEARS for Blizzard to cultivate that level of affection, and a lot of is rooted in nostalgia many of us had for the RTS's that introduced those factions. Blizzard cannot just turn on a switch and make us hyped for your factions as we are for the Alliance and the Horde. People don't work like that.

The amount of work necessary to bring this vision to reality is prohibitive.

The backlash from a player base that is content with the Alliance and Horde, OR who would prefer the factions to be scrapped entirely, is prohibitive.

And the chances of Blizzard throwing away their successful Alliance and Horde factions, factions that currently have two elf races a piece I might add, just to facilitate this...well let's just say I'm not going to be worrying that they are going to implement this any time soon.

This is a thought exercise. That is all it will ever be. My thoughts are that the ideas don't make sense.