Daggers for Outlaw and regular onehanders for Sub in BfA

[valky94]

Now that all abilities scale with attack power instead of weapon damage, will daggers become viable for outlaw rogues again as an offhand weapon (still requires a onehander for Dispatch and some talents), even Combat Potency would prefer a faster attacking offhand weapon (unless there is some hidden % for daggers or completely removes it)?

And will regular Onehanders be viable for sub as offhand weapons?

[Unlimited Power]

For assassination I believe it's always been a matter of Mutilate having a stabbing animation that only works if you're wearing a dagger in both hands.
Obviously there's also a case to be made for poison proc chance with slower weapons but that could probably be solved with proper tuning.

As for subtlety they only use their main hand for backstab/ambush/whatever, at least as far as I'm aware, so at least in terms of animation it should work just fine.

[Pigglix]

As far i know outlaw will still want to use 1h on off hand because the combat potency proc thing is normalized , meaning daggers will have the same % on proc chance as 1h weapon

[Wyrt]

I would like to see Outlaw use a dagger in their offhand considering their mastery is Main Gauche.

[Nathasil]

The motive of Sublety is "Ninja"....and the spec does jack-shit with its offhand....they missed a giant opportunity with Legion to transform sub into a single-wielding spec with the artifact being a ninja-blade...call me a cliche kiddy if you want, but that would have been one of the coolest specs in the game. Instead Sub stayed "Assassination B"...as it always was....but now that the Artifact has been 2 daggers it is basically set in stone the spec will forever remain a dagger dual-wielder.

[Demeia]

The motive of Sublety is "Ninja"....and the spec does jack-shit with its offhand....they missed a giant opportunity with Legion to transform sub into a single-wielding spec with the artifact being a ninja-blade...call me a cliche kiddy if you want, but that would have been one of the coolest specs in the game. Instead Sub stayed "Assassination B"...as it always was....but now that the Artifact has been 2 daggers it is basically set in stone the spec will forever remain a dagger dual-wielder.

Your cliche and kiddie. Also, I think you're right and not really cliche or kiddie either. They probably should have done that just. They seem to want to have their "ninja" and be able to say, "or maybe not!" too. I suppose the spec is just terribly mysterious.

[Pandragon]

The motive of Sublety is "Ninja"....and the spec does jack-shit with its offhand....they missed a giant opportunity with Legion to transform sub into a single-wielding spec with the artifact being a ninja-blade...call me a cliche kiddy if you want, but that would have been one of the coolest specs in the game. Instead Sub stayed "Assassination B"...as it always was....but now that the Artifact has been 2 daggers it is basically set in stone the spec will forever remain a dagger dual-wielder.

They failed a lot with Sub. It's supposed to be the shadow empowered spec, only one ability does shadow damage(not counting Gloomblade which should be baseline) and it's not even used for it's damage, but to increase the damage of other stuff.

[Deleted]

The motive of Sublety is "Ninja"....and the spec does jack-shit with its offhand....they missed a giant opportunity with Legion to transform sub into a single-wielding spec with the artifact being a ninja-blade...call me a cliche kiddy if you want, but that would have been one of the coolest specs in the game. Instead Sub stayed "Assassination B"...as it always was....but now that the Artifact has been 2 daggers it is basically set in stone the spec will forever remain a dagger dual-wielder.

What an amazing idea.. I would have loved seeing sub using a fancy shadow induced one hand ninja blade with nice animations! Or even using a kusanari with a chain like in ninja assassin!

[valky94]

As far i know outlaw will still want to use 1h on off hand because the combat potency proc thing is normalized , meaning daggers will have the same % on proc chance as 1h weapon

so under the line your offhand weapon doesnt rly matter what it is, be it dagger of onehander, if its an upgrade its an upgrade??

[Pigglix]

It does kinda matter because the base dmg from one handers are higher than daggers, and since both have the same proc chance, i think the one hands gets the advantage here.

But yeah, could be an upgrade because the dagger would hit more faster than the one hander, guess you would have to simmc to figure it out if its an upgrade or not.

[ymirsson]

For assassination I believe it's always been a matter of Mutilate having a stabbing animation that only works if you're wearing a dagger in both hands.

You mean like Stormstrike? There are no excuses for weapon restrictions. Not animation wise and even less mechanics wise.

[xZerocidex]

Don't think Sub will be able to use non-dagger weapons as offhanders. Backstab, Gloomblade, Nightblade, and Shadowstrike specifically states you need Daggers(Meaning both and not one.) to use the ability according to their tooltips.

You mean like Stormstrike? There are no excuses for weapon restrictions. Not animation wise and even less mechanics wise.

What are you talking about? Stormstrike no longer has the same animation as Mut in Legion. If you want to play as a class that doesn't rely on daggers either play Outlaw or reroll to another dual-wielding class that doesn't use daggers.

[ymirsson]

Don't think Sub will be able to use non-dagger weapons as offhanders. Backstab, Gloomblade, Nightblade, and Shadowstrike specifically states you need Daggers(Meaning both and not one.) to use the ability according to their tooltips.



What are you talking about? Stormstrike no longer has the same animation as Mut in Legion. If you want to play as a class that doesn't rely on daggers either play Outlaw or reroll to another dual-wielding class that doesn't use daggers.

But it had the same animation, which shows that the restriction is not a technical one but a design decision. A stupid decision.

[Deleted]

Don't think Sub will be able to use non-dagger weapons as offhanders. Backstab, Gloomblade, Nightblade, and Shadowstrike specifically states you need Daggers(Meaning both and not one.) to use the ability according to their tooltips.

I dont meen to interrupt your discussion here but you are able to use any non dagger item you want in offhand as sub.
sin is the only spec that locks you into double dagger.
Still worth mentioning is that sub will usually not use a slow offhand unless there is a significant item level difference.

[xZerocidex]

I dont meen to interrupt your discussion here but you are able to use any non dagger item you want in offhand as sub.
sin is the only spec that locks you into double dagger.
Still worth mentioning is that sub will usually not use a slow offhand unless there is a significant item level difference.

So you use nightblade and backstab with a sword in the OH? Because I'm going off what the tooltip says. If so I stand corrected.

[Deleted]

So you use nightblade and backstab with a sword in the OH? Because I'm going off what the tooltip says. If so I stand corrected.

i just refer to how it behaves ingame, tooltips are usually not a good source of information.

[xZerocidex]

i just refer to how it behaves ingame, tooltips are usually not a good source of information.

The point I'm making is if Sub abilities can't be used without wielding two daggers then obviously they are still gonna rely on both daggers regardless of what the tooltip says.

[Deleted]

yes obviously if you restrict a class to 1 weapon they will use this one.
However i am not a fan of hypothesis if you have information on how it works and the topic did not ask for it either.
So if your aim is to change the topic please refer to such as the only thing you end up doing is causing confusion else.

[delus]

Slow offhand sub is still viable. So is dagger offhand combat. At least until Blizzard decides to break them.

[Deleted]

yes, but at least for sub its not competitive.
For a more numeral comparison you would need more then 30 additional item levels to consider using a slow weapon in offhand slot.