Whats good & bad about the Horde and the Alliance?

[Deleted]

Pseudo-Wakanda is pretty boring though. And vulpera fucking suck.

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That's definitely not true. There is nothing diverse in BfA's nu-horde, you either have Sylvanas titsuckers or fucking suicidal Saurfang. Also their entire campaign revolves around forsaken, much more than Alliance one revolves around humans.

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Spineless leaders and doormats? Alliance doesn't have Liadrin and Baine bro. But I kind of agree with the boring part, I wanted Anduin to gain some character traits of Daelin/Garithos, unfortunately that's impossible with current writing team.



That's subjecitve, though I agree that those four released in Legion are a bit lackluster. But if Zandalari, Kul Tirans or Dark Iron Dorfs appear shit to you, I don't know what else would you want as allied race.

No, the Alliance allied races are shit. Fat humans and edgy midgets. Lal. The Horde allied races are all cool, plus straightback orcs and soon straightback undead.

[Frontenac]

I don't have much time for alts and my main as always been a Night Elf Druid. So obviously I will play Alliance.

That being said, it is hard to know precisely what each faction will do during this expansion. We only know, more or less, how they will gain new allies, Zandalari and Kultirans. But what will each faction do after that? For now, I would say that I like what I see in Kul Tiras. The political intrigues between the different houses, the Drusts, the architecture. Of course, Zandalar looks more vibrant and the storyline points to more dire and universal implications with the Old Gods, but I never was very fond of Trolls to begin with...

[Super Dickmann]

Which is a shame because I do agree, the Horde is definitely more interesting than the Alliance in many aspects, it's definitely more diverse. You have the lawful good optimists like Baine and Thrall, the pragmatic, gritty guys like Lor'themar and they just ruin it with Sylvanas is I would argue is the most boring, predictable character in WoW

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Tyrande
Genn
Jaina
Keeshan
Maiev
Maraad (riperooni)
Rogers

That's just a few off the top of my head who definitely are not "jesus"

RIP Maraad. The thing is that Rogers, Genn and Tyrande have no screen time and play second fiddle to Anduin. Genn realizing that the Forsaken aren't bad diminishes his character. Rogers being out of focus and Tyrande meekly leaving Teldrassil to get sacked and then doing nothing diminishes her character. The Horde on the other hand benefits from internal conflict. From Sylvanas as top warmonger to Baine as top peacenik.

[Sports72Xtrm]

For the Alliance I like that it's more harmonious, just, and meritocratic. Humans are versatile and industrious. Maybe boring to some but I like that they are salt of the earth people. They hit harder than most races, they heal harder than most races, and they have mastered techniques makes them applicable for almost any role. Their culture is one that promotes harmony and industry. From what I've seen, the kings have absolute power but they've proven worthy of it for the most part because their strength of character has been beneficial for the people they rule and the Church of the Holy Light which aids in their right to rule promotes a certain utopian culture. The Wrynns are just and have been known to be both cunning both militarily and politically and have risen to the occasion many times. The Church of the Holy Light is actually an organized religion that benefits the commonwealth and promotes order and stability. It provides paladins, the most just enforcers of order and protectors of the community, the clergy heals the land from diseases, protects the army, heals the working man of disease and pain, and for the most part is integral to the education and welfare of the service and industrial sector which keeps humans industrious, economically and militarily. Now sure there is nepotism, nobles inherit lands which keeps them in a position of power over the peasantry, but the peasantry can rise in the army or the clergy which is a meritocracy. However, depending on the demand for warriors, mages, and priests, unless you are the cream of the crop, most adventurers would probably find themselves working as peasants, the minutia of crafting, harvesting, and sowing and paying tithes to nobles in order to keep a roof over your head and food in your belly. Probably doing those collect 10 bear asses quests.
Dwarves and gnomes probably have the same strengths and weaknesses as humans with different variations. Dwarves make great warriors, mages, and healers, and can survive better without relying on the clergy because their earthform makes them immune to disease. However, they're a burst damage fighter. For the most part, the Alliance is idyllic and self sustaining. Which most people can't relate to because real life isn't idyllic and self sustaining. There is no incentive usually to be generous and kind in real life, but holy magic for the Alliance is fueled by that kind of stuff. That's why they are the lawful good overdrive faction. However, it's true they're the soft faction which imo is sort of a downside. We use barbarity, cruelty, and savagery as a deterrent for those who would employ such a tactic. When the Horde bombs civilian towns and the Alliance doesn't do so in retaliation because they believe in proportionate retaliation, it just emboldens them to continue doing so which is why Alliance cities for the most part seems to be the one getting nuked to oblivion.

A lot of people relate to the Horde because they are outcasts. Racism, poverty, working to make a living in a hostile land is something most real life humans can relate to. They also have less divine deus ex machina to guide their leaders, I don't know why, maybe its because most races are fel tainted or believe in more wilder less benevolent gods. Sure the orcs have shamanism and all that, but unlike the Church of the Holy Light, its not fueled by good intentions, but rather bargaining with fickle elemental spirits; its not like the game where magic works every time, sometimes they grant their favors and technically sometimes they don't. The Horde is purely military merticocracy, bloodlines don't matter in the Horde since most hereditary chieftains have whittled away or can be challenged for leadership. They are warriors and hunters and gatherers and most don't have the the self sustaining agricultural infrastructure to sustain themselves. If you are good at killing you move up, but if not, you're a peon and you enjoy breaking your back for the jocks. Also since the Horde comprises of cultures who don't answer to some divine force, most people in the Horde can use real politics to aggrandize themselves, using deception and military bullying which is more relatable than the Alliance's incentives coming from a divine guidance to generosity and community collaboration. Still most are loyal out of desperation, I know the orcs, trolls, and tauren believe they chose to be in the Horde but with the adding of the blood elves, Forsaken, and goblins; they don't care about blood debts and honor. The latter joined because it's profitable in some way. So politics is more contentious and divided, yet they all band together to survive and because they can all rally under the cause of raiding and pillaging those that slighted them one way or another.

[Tripzzz]

RIP Maraad. The thing is that Rogers, Genn and Tyrande have no screen time and play second fiddle to Anduin. Genn realizing that the Forsaken aren't bad diminishes his character. Rogers being out of focus and Tyrande meekly leaving Teldrassil to get sacked and then doing nothing diminishes her character. The Horde on the other hand benefits from internal conflict. From Sylvanas as top warmonger to Baine as top peacenik.

Baine also gets "no screen time" and plays second fiddle to Slyvanus. You can't say there is conflict between them when Baine literally participates in the battle for Lordaeron and says nothing of what is happening. Slyvanus just continues to act like retarded cartoon villian. So deeep and interesting!

[Super Dickmann]

Baine also gets "no screen time" and plays second fiddle to Slyvanus. You can't say there is conflict between them when Baine literally participates in the battle for Lordaeron and says nothing of what is happening. Slyvanus just continues to act like retarded cartoon villian. So deeep and interesting!

Name one thing Sylvanas did wrong in the Battle for Lordaeron.
Pro-tip: You can't.
That aside he's full on an obstructionist traitor to her in the book just like he was to Garrosh through the entirety of his tenure, so he's pretty consistent.

[Tripzzz]

Name one thing Sylvanas did wrong in the Battle for Lordaeron.
Pro-tip: You can't.
That aside he's full on an obstructionist traitor to her in the book just like he was to Garrosh through the entirety of his tenure, so he's pretty consistent.

Wtf? My point was Baine is just as irrelevant as Genn, Rogers, and Tyrande when compared to Anduin and Slyvanus. Him being "traitor" means jack shit when he merrily goes along with her plan in Lordaeron.

And Slyvanus still lost her city to an inexperienced boy king. She fucked up by letting Saurfang go to confront the Alliance, which ultimately saved the Alliance from her blight trap.

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Aside from her fuck up of literally not noticing hundreds of Alliance troops until they destroyed Brill and were right ontop of the gates of Lordaeron with siege engines. But sure, Slyvanus did nothing wrong. Lmao these fanboys are too funny.

[Super Dickmann]

Wtf? My point was Baine is just as irrelevant as Genn, Rogers, and Tyrande when compared to Anduin and Slyvanus. Him being "traitor" means jack shit when he merrily goes along with her plan in Lordaeron.

And Slyvanus still lost her city to an inexperienced boy king. She fucked up by letting Saurfang go to confront the Alliance, which ultimately saved the Alliance from her blight trap.

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Aside from her fuck up of literally not noticing hundreds of Alliance troops until they destroyed Brill and were right ontop of the gates of Lordaeron with siege engines. But sure, Slyvanus did nothing wrong. Lmao these fanboys are too funny.

Baine actively disagreed with Sylvanas on-screen in the book and passed secret messages to the Alliance. Genn concedes to Anduin on every question, as does Rogers who barely even appears. So do the millennia-old leaders of an ancient Empire. And of course he goes along with her plan, he's a pussy, it's what he does.

As for letting Saurfang confront the Alliance, that was completely moot. She was going to blow up the city anyway and if anything Saurfang bought the other Horde forces time to bail. At worst, he did nothing to change the outcome one way or another. As for not noticing them, of course she notices them, she just moves on to a fortified position, that's even in the quest text she gives you saying that they'll hold at Lordaeron Keep rather than face the larger alliance army on an open field.

[Kwento]

If you like Blizzard’s attention and want to be on a “never completely wrong” side, pick Alliance!
If you liked Warcraft III Horde, don’t play this game.

On a more positive side.
When it comes to the Alliance, I like dwarves and their overall story up to the point of Moira becoming Stormwind’s personal housemaid.
What I don’t like about Alliance is... Lack of an interesting story. And it’s not that I’m one of the people who thinks that Blizzard just focuses on the Horde when they want to make a story. In my opinion, they actually spend too much time trying to make Alliance “cool” by making them unrealistically skilled in one way or the other. Like the Light, that most of the Alliance follow, is now one of two foundations of the world with shamanism, being the Horde counter to the Light, becoming a lesser form of magic.
Humans are also amazing at everything. That’s a very big problem with the blie faction, because they have races that are good at certain things (dwarves - war tech, draenei - paladins, worgen - warriors, night elves - hunters/druids, and so on) but they aren’t given a single chance to shine, instead they are there to be saved by humans.
To put it simply, if Varian would have been a worgen, I would have had almost nothing against his horrible story and unrealistic achievements in combat.

With the Horde it’s much more simple.
I liked the Horde because of how they used to be in Warcraft III. Then Forsaken were added and everything went to shit. Not because it’s Forsaken fault, but because it’s Blizzard that screwed up and jammed this race into the faction that doesn’t fit it in any capacity. No matter how long they tried to make it fit, it never did.
What I don’t like about the Horde is this stupid notion of them being a “bad guy for the Alliance to look better”. This is the origin of Garrosh’s mustache twirling evilness, Vol’jin’s sudden anticlimactic death and Sylvanas being Warchief. All the things that technically made the Horde a “more interesting faction”, but if you live in a world of perfect geometry and stumble upon a piece of chaotic crap, it would be interesting too. Doesn’t mean that it’s better in any way.

[Tripzzz]

Baine actively disagreed with Sylvanas on-screen in the book and passed secret messages to the Alliance. Genn concedes to Anduin on every question, as does Rogers who barely even appears. So do the millennia-old leaders of an ancient Empire. And of course he goes along with her plan, he's a pussy, it's what he does.

As for letting Saurfang confront the Alliance, that was completely moot. She was going to blow up the city anyway and if anything Saurfang bought the other Horde forces time to bail. At worst, he did nothing to change the outcome one way or another. As for not noticing them, of course she notices them, she just moves on to a fortified position, that's even in the quest text she gives you saying that they'll hold at Lordaeron Keep rather than face the larger alliance army on an open field.

Wow. Baine disagreed. So much conflict there! You know Anduin disagreed with Genn over marrying his daughter. CONFLICT! Absolutely nothing has come out of the Baine and Slyvanus disagreement. Baine folds like a little bitch. If you think that is conflict then idk what to tell you.

That fact she allowed her lands to be so easily overtaken is 100% her fault. She had no defenses set up for a counterstike after starting a war? What happened to lordaeron belongs to the forsaken now and forever? So much for a being tactical. Setting up a trap at the shore and blight bombs at brill would have been a good start. But go ahead and pretend Slyvanus did everything right.

[Super Dickmann]

Wow. Baine disagreed. So much conflict there! You know Anduin disagreed with Genn over marrying his daughter. CONFLICT! Absolutely nothing has come out of the Baine and Slyvanus disagreement. Baine folds like a little bitch. If you think that is conflict then idk what to tell you.

That fact she allowed her lands to be so easily overtaken is 100% her fault. She had no defenses set up for a counterstike after starting a war? What happened to lordaeron belongs to the forsaken now and forever? So much for a being tactical. Setting up a trap at the shore and blight bombs at brill would have been a good start. But go ahead and pretend Slyvanus did everything right.

Call me when an Alliance leader starts sending explicit text messages to a Horde one to help them out with their faction objectives. I'll wait, since it never happened. Baine's disagremenet is on substantive questions and amounts to something since he and the tauren focus on healing the wound, per the book. By comparison, all Alliance go along with a teenager's fetish for peace even in the face of an enemy who they have every reason to believe wants to take over the world, allowing themselves to be attacked over and over again.

Given that the Alliance get fuck all out of it since the city and the entire surrounding area are plagued and taking into account that this was written so as to equalize a loss on both sides, Sylvanas came out looking pretty good. She pushed the Alliance back with the Blight and was only foiled by Jaina and then had Anduin at gunpoint and asking for daddy to save him with Nathanos and Lor'themar's ambush. She lost purely because of one thing she had no means of knowing and even then the Tirisfal campaign ended with scorched earth, compared to the Northern Kalimdor one which ended with two areas conquered or at least contested and one city torched. And unlike Teldrassil, UC's civilians being evacuated was her first order of business.

[Tripzzz]

Call me when an Alliance leader starts sending explicit text messages to a Horde one to help them out with their faction objectives. I'll wait, since it never happened. Baine's disagremenet is on substantive questions and amounts to something since he and the tauren focus on healing the wound, per the book. By comparison, all Alliance go along with a teenager's fetish for peace even in the face of an enemy who they have every reason to believe wants to take over the world, allowing themselves to be attacked over and over again.

Given that the Alliance get fuck all out of it since the city and the entire surrounding area are plagued and taking into account that this was written so as to equalize a loss on both sides, Sylvanas came out looking pretty good. She pushed the Alliance back with the Blight and was only foiled by Jaina and then had Anduin at gunpoint and asking for daddy to save him with Nathanos and Lor'themar's ambush. She lost purely because of one thing she had no means of knowing and even then the Tirisfal campaign ended with scorched earth, compared to the Northern Kalimdor one which ended with two areas conquered or at least contested and one city torched. And unlike Teldrassil, UC's civilians being evacuated was her first order of business.

Well if Baine sending messages to Anduin counts, why wouldn't the messages Anduin sent to Baine count? Pretty sure that would conflict with what Jaina would want aswell.

The Alliance kicked out most of the Forsaken. That is huge. Scorched earth isn't as effective when you got people that can reverse it's effects. There are paladins cleansing southshore which wouldn't be possible if the Forsaken weren't kicked out.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/mission=1953/southshore-sabotage

[Super Dickmann]

Well if Baine sending messages to Anduin counts, why wouldn't the messages Anduin sent to Baine count? Pretty sure that would conflict with what Jaina would want aswell.

The Alliance kicked out most of the Forsaken. That is huge. Scorched earth isn't as effective when you got people that can reverse it's effects. There are paladins cleansing southshore which wouldn't be possible if the Forsaken weren't kicked out.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/mission=1953/southshore-sabotage

Because Baine was doing so to benefit Anduin. He cut off a part of his body to mail to the enemy faction leader after whinging endlessly to his own faction leader. Given how Baine has no spine, that's pretty high up there in terms of resistance.

As for the latter point, retarded inference. Southshore is a ruin. Anyone can visit it since it's wrecked. And that's a Horde quest where you kill him, which even further pushes the point. By the start of BFA, Alliance have parts of the Plaguelands, parts of Tirisfal that weren't blighted and Gilneas. Silverpine and Hillsbrad are explicitly Horde, since there's a few table missions which has Alliance send armies there and get stopped. Alterac is being built up as a Horde base.

[Tripzzz]

Because Baine was doing so to benefit Anduin. He cut off a part of his body to mail to the enemy faction leader after whinging endlessly to his own faction leader. Given how Baine has no spine, that's pretty high up there in terms of resistance.

As for the latter point, retarded inference. Southshore is a ruin. Anyone can visit it since it's wrecked. And that's a Horde quest where you kill him, which even further pushes the point. By the start of BFA, Alliance have parts of the Plaguelands, parts of Tirisfal that weren't blighted and Gilneas. Silverpine and Hillsbrad are explicitly Horde, since there's a few table missions which has Alliance send armies there and get stopped. Alterac is being built up as a Horde base.

But what has come out of Baine's disagreement? Absolutely nothing. So much for "conflict". Baine agreed to stop communications witb Anduin and he follows her orders in the battle for Lordaeron without a peep.

Southshore is being used by apothecaries.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/mission=1915/southshore-sabotage

The point was that the Alliance doesn't care the land is blighted, they will attempt to heal it anyway.

[Super Dickmann]

But what has come out of Baine's disagreement? Absolutely nothing. So much for "conflict". Baine agreed to stop communications witb Anduin and he follows her orders in the battle for Lordaeron without a peep.

Southshore is being used by apothecaries.

http://bfa.wowhead.com/mission=1953/southshore-sabotage

The point was that the Alliance doesn't care the land is blighted, they will attempt to heal it anyway.

That is still internal conflict and disagreement between leaders. Remind me when Tyrande or Genn called Anduin an unrealistic moron who, had he struck first, could've prevented the destruction of Teldrassil.

That's well and good, but at least until Blizzard update Lordaeron, it's not going anywhere. That and it's so lethal that even staying there kills you in a matter of seconds if we take gameplay mechanics into account, so I'd say they'd have their work cut out for them. I won't answer the bit about the apothecaries, since I'm fairly sure you linked the wrong quest.

[Tripzzz]

That is still internal conflict and disagreement between leaders. Remind me when Tyrande or Genn called Anduin an unrealistic moron who, had he struck first, could've prevented the destruction of Teldrassil.

That's well and good, but at least until Blizzard update Lordaeron, it's not going anywhere. That and it's so lethal that even staying there kills you in a matter of seconds if we take gameplay mechanics into account, so I'd say they'd have their work cut out for them. I won't answer the bit about the apothecaries, since I'm fairly sure you linked the wrong quest.

Link is fixed. The quest is the exact same name so i got confused. Sure It's "conflict" but it's so damn small it's irrelevant to the bigger "conflict" of Saurfang vs Slyvanus.

[Super Dickmann]

Link is fixed. The quest is the exact same name so i got confused. Sure It's "conflict" but it's so damn small it's irrelevant to the bigger "conflict" of Saurfang vs Slyvanus.

That the Saurfang conflict even exists is something that'd never happen with the Alliance and is in fact more opposition than Garrosh got around the same point in his reign. As for the apothecaries quest, those are mirrored, so the place is contested in the loosest sense of the word, since no faction holds it as it's a blighted piece of shit.

[Tripzzz]

That the Saurfang conflict even exists is something that'd never happen with the Alliance and is in fact more opposition than Garrosh got around the same point in his reign. As for the apothecaries quest, those are mirrored, so the place is contested in the loosest sense of the word, since no faction holds it as it's a blighted piece of shit.

Some might say the conflict within the Horde is as stale and repetitive as the Alliance being all good with eachother. Garrosh 2.0 being a common complaint among horde fans. And the southshore thing was simply to show the the Alliance will attempt to heal blighted lands, which includes Lordaeron itself.

[Super Dickmann]

Some might say the conflict within the Horde is as stale and repetitive as the Alliance being all good with eachother. Garrosh 2.0 being a common complaint among horde fans. And the southshore thing was simply to show the the Alliance will attempt to heal blighted lands, which includes Lordaeron itself.

They could, I'd say they're wrong and whining about a time in the Horde that was there for two editions of an RTS that's 16 years old at this point, but whichever one of us is right, it doesn't matter. All I'm saying is that the Horde is conflicted whereas the Alliance is not.

The Alliance has a readiness to clear blighted lands and would no doubt like to do so, I agree, but it's about feasibility. For now, Lordaeron would be unfixable by them, hence why from what quests we have Gilneas is their main staging ground. Don't get me started on how contradictory that is since in the book Genn refers to it as a ruin held by Forsaken.

[Deleted]

Alliance:

+ Not the agressors
+ Draenei have the best asses
+ Pandaren representative is not a retard
+ Void Elves make the best casters
+ Dark Iron Dwarves make the best tanks
+ Worgen Starting area

- Lack of story development
- Boring characters

Horde:

+ Zandalari have best druid forms
+ Well uhmmmmm there is.......they were important in every expansions beside Legion I guess?

- Sylvanas gone evil
- Lor'Themar stoped being a character after MoP
- everyone else is a smelly retard