eSports Too Intense?

[Bigbazz]

So what separates 2 players that put in an equal amount of work?

It's almost like you believe what you kindergarten teacher told you, that you could be anything you wanted with hard work?

How hard you work vs how efficiently you work. quality of practice/quantity of practice. It's like education, you have an advantage if the education is better, if the guidance is better. That doesn't mean that everyone can be anything they want and be the best at it, but it's also silly to assume that asians are more capable at a genetic level when they have a considerable environmental advantage due to the popularity of e-sports culture and high level of competition with which to develop skills against.

[Erolian]

Weird thread. Of course you're going to get put in the dumpster by people actually trying to be professional players. Yes, they will practice all day sometimes. They will think about the game while you're worrying about life. They will be playing while you're at work. They will be going over their stream rebroadcast or personal recordings while you're falling asleep. They'll be playing when you're playing. Its a life style you can read about anywhere if you actually want to google what those players actually do and go through

There are people who are more naturally talented than others however the one defining feature that they all share in common is the ability to learn from and spot their own mistakes and mistakes from others to continue to improve long after the normal player has settled into a groove bad habits and all. Nobody gets that good by halfassing it. The height of the best of the best players comes from the natural talent meeting the hard work ethic and intelligence. There are teams and placings that go all the way down and some of those slots are filled by naturally less coordinated players who are just very smart and put in tons of work. They might never be the best individual but they do make it onto top ~8 teams.

Another thing people don't realize is that often times those players aren't actually doing some kind of high intensity practice 18+ hours a day. That would be stupid. You have to take breaks, relax, sleep, eat well, and generally just take care of your body if you want to maintain your mental state and let things sink in. This is probably part of why a lot of people who no life things hoping to go pro never make it. The quality of the practice is just as important as the amount of practice.

[Qck]

The amount people downplay natural talent in esports is baffling to me.

It's like anything in life, no matter how hard you work, there's more than likely going to be people better than you. Remember that kid in highschool who aced every math test/exam with minimal effort? The guy who could run rings around you while eating chocolate and potato chips every day? Some people are just born with it.

When you get to the top of anything in life, be it academia, sport or even video gaming it's not just hard work that gets you there. It's hard work while being incredibly gifted at whatever you do. Hard work will improve you, sure, but you're going to have a ceiling, a hard cap on your skill level based on what you can physically do or mentally process. Not everyone has the same ceiling and that's just the genetic lottery.

The guys at the top of esports work incredibly hard, no doubt. Most of them are also insanely talented though. Fair chance they're better than 99% of players within a few days of picking a game up. You only have to have a gander at Twitch, and some of the guys who aren't even pro/used to be pro and the way they dominate in new games compared to most people.

It's a harsh reality to accept, and isn't usually something we're taught to believe, but at the end of the day hard work and effort will only get you so far.

[Erolian]

The amount people downplay natural talent in esports is baffling to me.

It's like anything in life, no matter how hard you work, there's more than likely going to be people better than you. Remember that kid in highschool who aced every math test/exam with minimal effort? The guy who could run rings around you while eating chocolate and potato chips every day? Some people are just born with it.

When you get to the top of anything in life, be it academia, sport or even video gaming it's not just hard work that gets you there. It's hard work while being incredibly gifted at whatever you do. Hard work will improve you, sure, but you're going to have a ceiling, a hard cap on your skill level based on what you can physically do or mentally process. Not everyone has the same ceiling and that's just the genetic lottery.

The guys at the top of esports work incredibly hard, no doubt. Most of them are also insanely talented though. Fair chance they're better than 99% of players within a few days of picking a game up. You only have to have a gander at Twitch, and some of the guys who aren't even pro/used to be pro and the way they dominate in new games compared to most people.

It's a harsh reality to accept, and isn't usually something we're taught to believe, but at the end of the day hard work and effort will only get you so far.

The bolded bit is a result of previous work. Skill transfers over greatly within the same genre and there are other things you learn about yourself such as how you personally learn games and become good that you take with you to any game afterwards. The starting line isn't equal for people outside of natural ability. For example I played Halo A LOT at one point in life, made it to pro bracket at MLG events a few times, and when I played BF bad company 2 I was sitting in the top 10 of their leaderboard because I was already so far ahead of people on console fps back then it didn't actually matter what game we were playing. The average player had no concept of spacing, spawn control, general positioning and so on so what really happened is we just pub stomped people and dropped insane k/d ratios on people just learning how to play even though I never would've been a pro BF player or even close to it just playing casually. None of that was natural though I had just learned it on another game before that new one even existed

[Qck]

Indeed, transferable skills are a pretty big thing when talking about video games seeing as how there tends to only be so many different types of games. If you're an experienced FPS player you'll probably pick up any FPS game and do well right away. Not because you have magic genetics, but because you already put a ton of work in and those skills transfer.

And then there are people that play WoW for 12-16 hours a day and still struggle with basic combat mechanics or rotations and have never seen above 1750 or a blue parse in their life.

I play video games a lot, I'm pretty decent at them, and yet even someone like Lirik could probably make me look like a special needs kid in a brand new game.

Certainly skills transfer across games, but that doesn't refute the point that some people are just naturally better at things than others and will always be that way no matter how much you play.

[Shiny212]

So what separates 2 players that put in an equal amount of work?

It's almost like you believe what you kindergarten teacher told you, that you could be anything you wanted with hard work?

For starters no two players are ever going to put in the exact equal amount of work. It also boils down to more than just "hours practiced" but the efficacy and quality of the practice. Koreans for example are good at this, they practice hard against other quality players and teams much more than their EU&US counterparts, because their country is a haven to esports.

If your kindergarten told you that, I'm sure you weren't this cynical then and believed her.

Disclaimer: just in case you're dense enough to think I'm somehow arguing against the requirement for 2 hands, no major disability etc, I'm not. To do a sport you need the "requisite limbs and organs", but other than that it's all in your head. No person you idolize for anything ever got there "on their superduper genes".

[Shiny212]

Funny you mention that, because you've got players like Broly who play fighting games with his mouth. Literally pressing the buttons on the controller with his mouth because his hands can't do it. And he's better than pretty much 95% of the entire playerbase because he just put the work into understanding the game and playing around his limitations.

Granted, his limitations are likely too great for him to ever be a player that's competing to win EVO or something. A lot of that is just because he probably can't leave the house too much, can't travel, and can't have really top tier training partners like other top competitors benefit from. Still, if you think that your genetics are keeping you in bronze, you're just making excuses. (The generic "you", not you specifically)

There you go, determination and a will to improve and excel trumps "inborn talent" every time.

[Bigbazz]

There you go, determination and a will to improve and excel trumps "inborn talent" every time.

It does until you combine inborn talent with a determination and a will to improve. If you then combine both those aspects with an environment that promotes a high level of competition with lots of talented determined players playing together they will push themselves to great heights. That's why you have certain countries or cities excelling at certain things, because you have all the ingredients to drive improvement/performance to the highest level.

If you look at Rugby, the top 3 ranked countries (New Zealand, Ireland, Wales) all have a lower population than the city of London, (the capital city of the 4th ranked country).. It's not because the genetics in these countries are superior for rugby, it's because of the culture and drive to nurture talent within that sport and the high level of national competition that allows talent to rise and develop.

Korea has this when it comes to gaming, the culture to develop talent combined with the ethic for hard work and improvement.

[Shiny212]

It does until you combine inborn talent with a determination and a will to improve. If you then combine both those aspects with an environment that promotes a high level of competition with lots of talented determined players playing together they will push themselves to great heights. That's why you have certain countries or cities excelling at certain things, because you have all the ingredients to drive improvement/performance to the highest level.

If you look at Rugby, the top 3 ranked countries (New Zealand, Ireland, Wales) all have a lower population than the city of London, (the capital city of the 4th ranked country).. It's not because the genetics in these countries are superior for rugby, it's because of the culture and drive to nurture talent within that sport and the high level of national competition that allows talent to rise and develop.

Korea has this when it comes to gaming, the culture to develop talent combined with the ethic for hard work and improvement.

Very true. This is the reason you'll find many EU/US players moving to Korea to learn and improve.