Trump pardons Ranchers who set fires and started standoff

[draynay]

Just one more of literally dozens of presidential powers that were fine until Cadet Bone Spurs was let in.

#deplorable45

People usually vote for functioning adults.

[PC2]

Just one more of literally dozens of presidential powers that were fine until Cadet Bone Spurs was let in.

#deplorable45

That's how democracy works though. Every expansion of government power has to be well thought out ahead of time. If it could be used for something you like by one political party, it will eventually be used for something you don't like when a different party wins.

[Drutt]

Pardons should be proposed by the president and voted up/down by Congress.

Trump has made it pretty obvious that the current pardon process is fundamentally broken. It should never be used as a "get rid of jailtime for everyone associated with my party" power, but that's how he is using it...and now that genie is out of the bottle, you can bet future Presidents will abuse it too.

[Daelak]

I agree this is a mistake. But you lose any credibility when you start your “illegitimate” bullshit. So much for the constitution you only seem to care about at random intervals.

Considering just the public information about the Trump campaign in 2015-2016, as well as his historical ties to Russian oligarchs, anyone not deluded by propaganda (like Giuliani's words), knows he's complicit in undermining US national security.

[Zan15]

Whoop-de-doo. Pardons have always been arbitrarily based on the sentiment of the current POTUS.

i think the word you are looking for is hypocrite

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Just one more of literally dozens of presidential powers that were fine until Cadet Bone Spurs was let in.

#deplorable45

No one is disputing the presidential powers or his right to do so.

they are disputing him choosing these people and this particular incident and his prior stances on following the rule of law.


Also democrats are the party of second chances and republicans have attacked them for decades for being pro-criminals........funny how it works now huh?

[Santti]

I think president being able to pardon is just dumb. What does someone like Trump (or any president, really) know about justice or law? Let the professionals handle how people should be punished for their crimes. It's their fucking job.

[Sunseeker]

Because this is what the Presidential Pardon is for now: to get our friends out of trouble.

[Orbitus]

Because this is what the Presidential Pardon is for now: to get our friends out of trouble.

To which, some of them don't understand that they admit guilt when they accept a pardon, like Arpaio.

[Kujako]

To which, some of them don't understand that they admit guilt when they accept a pardon, like Arpaio.

Arpaio was convicted before the pardon.

[Belize]

Distraction.

Generally speaking, controversial pardons came before a big break to divert attention, or during periods of intense scrutiny.

Trump uses pardons as chaff to save himself.

[Kujako]

Distraction.

Generally speaking, controversial pardons came before a big break to divert attention, or during periods of intense scrutiny.

Trump uses pardons as chaff to save himself.

Could be a coincidence, since what they need to distract people from happens every day now.

[PC2]

Distraction.

Generally speaking, controversial pardons came before a big break to divert attention, or during periods of intense scrutiny.

Trump uses pardons as chaff to save himself.

The subject of the distraction being his SCOTUS pick or what?

[Edge-]

The subject of the distraction being his SCOTUS pick or what?

The ongoing shitshow related to the federal government kidnapping children and then being unable to quickly reunite them with their parents because they never had any plans in place to do so to begin with.

[Orbitus]

Arpaio was convicted before the pardon.

Yes, but Arpaio literally thought it meant that he was cleared of all charges when the pardon happened. http://www.newsweek.com/joe-arpaio-f...live-tv-781824

[Kujako]

Yes, but Arpaio literally thought it meant that he was cleared of all charges when the pardon happened. http://www.newsweek.com/joe-arpaio-f...live-tv-781824

I doubt anyone ever accused him of being smart.

[Orbitus]

I doubt anyone ever accused him of being smart.

He still thinks Obama wasn't legitimate.

[Thekri]

I think president being able to pardon is just dumb. What does someone like Trump (or any president, really) know about justice or law? Let the professionals handle how people should be punished for their crimes. It's their fucking job.

I disagree. What is dumb is how Trump is using it now. For example, look at Obama's pardons here. All of them were vetted through the Justice department, and the vast majority were for low level drug offenders. In contrast, most Bush pardons were also various low level nonviolent crimes, but very few were related to drugs (Because of the whole War on Drugs thing), they were still all vetted through the Justice Department, you can see them here. If you follow the links you can see the cases of all recent pardons, and most of them aren't controversial at all.


The entire point of pardons is because the Justice system doesn't really have a human element. Its job is to determine guilt and assign sentences, without really putting emotion into it. The power of executive pardon is one of the oldest legal powers in existence, and its job is to provide exactly that, leniency for those who deserve it. When you get somebody like Trump with an extremely warped sense of morals, you get terrible pardons. The solution is to elect better presidents, not get rid of pardons.

[Sorshen]

Trump is using tax payer's money to attend rallies and preach/ramble to his base as if he's in an election campaign, then he goes to work and pardons a cult member - signaling that he won't forget about them. Then he finally goes home to golf and relax for the weekend.

[Stormdash]

The issue was that their punishment did not meet the minimum standards for sentencing, so they were given a harsher sentence.

I don't blame the Hammondss for the standoff, I blame the Bundy family and their inbred goon squad. Hell, the Hammonds were vocal about wanting it to end.

Personally, I think the Hammond family got a raw deal from BLM, but that in no way excused the actions by the Bundy fuckwads.

Agree! But it also then follows that their pardon isn't a vindication of the Bundys, which seems to be the desired rhetorical tack of the thread.

[Felya]

The subject of the distraction being his SCOTUS pick or what?

Korea saying they don’t intend to denuclearize until US makes more “serious” concessions.

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The subject of the distraction being his SCOTUS pick or what?

Michael Cohen supposedly flipping on Trump.

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The ongoing shitshow related to the federal government kidnapping children and then being unable to quickly reunite them with their parents because they never had any plans in place to do so to begin with.

Yep, that’s another one.

The UN meeting?