Trump was briefed two weeks before inauguration that Putin ordered election hack

[Dontrike]

It is left's fault though that left fixate on Russia/Trump so much now and allow Republicans to dominate where it actually matters.

It's a side's fault because they focus on the side doing all of the shit?........What?!

It's the cops fault for fixating on all of the crime and allowing other crime to dominate where it actually matters. Look I can post nonsense too.

[Shalcker]

It's a side's fault because they focus on the side doing all of the shit?........What?!

There is only so much outrage people can manage.

If you waste all "outrage power" on Trump shenanigans, you lose.

How about focusing on issues that can actually improve lives of voting people that are not result of Trump's policies making things worse? Preferably ones in which you can achieve results despite Republican resistance too.

It's the cops fault for fixating on all of the crime and allowing other crime to dominate where it actually matters. Look I can post nonsense too.

If cop focuses on littering and ignores bank robbery taking place, probably his fault, yes.

[Deleted]

Dems whine about trump being reality show figure n then proceed to act like constantly outraged over the top reality show figures/participants...

It's like u are trying to talk sense into junkies, Shalker...they only react to what strokes more reaction out of them. They will believe trump eats children if the media tells them..

Very funny their flustered state...

But it got old n boring now..

[Felya]

Dems whine about trump being reality show figure n then proceed to act like constantly outraged over the top reality show figures/participants...

It's like u are trying to talk sense into junkies, Shalker...they only react to what strokes more reaction out of them. They will believe trump eats children if the media tells them..

Very funny their flustered state...

But it got old n boring now..

Then why are you posting about it? You think it’s new and exciting to whine about people whining? It’s not new or exciting...

[PosPosPos]

But it got old n boring now..

Just like alt-righters whining about her emails.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The election results showed that Trump won fair and square 304 to 227. The election was not hacked.

There was crystal and clear evidence that the election would be hacked even months before. He didn’t win fair and square. Hillary had warned everyone of the hacking and so did Obama.

[Deleted]

Then why are you posting about it? You think it’s new and exciting to whine about people whining? It’s not new or exciting...

Well..I was waiting to poop. Was bored.

[Slant]

The election results showed that Trump won fair and square 304 to 227. The election was not hacked.

You're practically communist at this point.

[Mormolyce]

Russia hacked into Hillary's server but not the election system. There's a big difference.

Russia hacked voting systems in 39 states before the 2016 presidential electio

Russia’s efforts to hack the 2016 presidential election were much more widespread than originally thought. The Russian campaign hit 39 states — twice as many as originally reported — and in one case hackers tried to delete and alter voter data.

That’s the startling revelation from a Bloomberg report this morning. The extent of the cyber intrusion was so widespread that Obama administration officials used the infamous “red phone” — which is really a digital communications channel that allows the countries to send information back and forth — to show Kremlin leaders what they had discovered. It remains unclear, though, if these intrusions had any direct effect on the election’s outcome.

Still, this is another example of Russia taking advantage of the many online vulnerabilities in America’s voting network, which is comprised of software companies, online registration sites, and vital information that election officials willingly send to each other over email.

All of them play an important part in obtaining and safeguarding sensitive voter information, but it appears the Russians have figured out how to get that data.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/13/...trump-sessions

Please feel free to carefully rephrase that in a way that's less false.

[Felya]

Well..I was waiting to poop. Was bored.

You should see a doctor... you were waiting to poop for an hour.

Edit: After you didn’t post for 5 min, I thought you might actually be honest. Then you came back an hour later, because you had to see the reply. Oh well... try again next time.

[Mormolyce]

Dems whine about trump being reality show figure n then proceed to act like constantly outraged over the top reality show figures/participants...

It's like u are trying to talk sense into junkies, Shalker...they only react to what strokes more reaction out of them. They will believe trump eats children if the media tells them..

Very funny their flustered state...

But it got old n boring now..

Wait a minute... if you're here, who's giving Putin his regular mid-afternoon rub and tug?

Make sure you give him the pinky reach around this time, good prostate health is very important for men his age you know.

[Breccia]

Please feel free to carefully rephrase that in a way that's less false.

I'll use the same metaphor: Trump's rabid fanbase claiming what Russia did was okay because it didn't change marks in the voting booths is a lot like saying shooting members of the opposite team in sports is okay because it doesn't change the numbers on the scoreboard.

Oh, and it's moving the goalposts. Remember the last time Trump's rabid fanbase said "It wasn't Russia"? No? Neither do they. They've had to move on multiple times since.

[Mormolyce]

I'll use the same metaphor: Trump's rabid fanbase claiming what Russia did was okay because it didn't change marks in the voting booths is a lot like saying shooting members of the opposite team in sports is okay because it doesn't change the numbers on the scoreboard.

Oh, and it's moving the goalposts. Remember the last time Trump's rabid fanbase said "It wasn't Russia"? No? Neither do they. They've had to move on multiple times since.

Let's see, was it:

-He won fair and square
-Russia didn't try to influence the election
-Russia tried but it didn't work
-Russia tried but it wasn't on behalf of any particular candidate
-Okay they stole the emails but they didn't hack the actual electoral systems
-Nobody on the Trump campaign was involved
-Well Trump himself wasn't involved

...(insert future fallback positions)

-YEAH WELL SUCK IT LIBS NAH NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING

[Skroe]

So in other words, we have (as if we needed it), concrete evidence the President of the United States has been flagrantly and regularly lying directly to the American people for personal gain, for over 18 months.

Anyone defending Trump utterly lacks patriotism and respect for the rule of law and functioning institutions. Anyone defending Trump at this point, is an apologist for evil. Nothing more, nothing less.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's see, was it:

-He won fair and square
-Russia didn't try to influence the election
-Russia tried but it didn't work
-Russia tried but it wasn't on behalf of any particular candidate
-Okay they stole the emails but they didn't hack the actual electoral systems
-Nobody on the Trump campaign was involved
-Well Trump himself wasn't involved

...(insert future fallback positions)

-YEAH WELL SUCK IT LIBS NAH NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING

On my latest vacation I've done a lot of thining and reading about Trumpkins and Russia. I've had the privlege of being able to read the incredible things posted here during the last miserable 10 days, and on the conservative websites.

I've come to the conlusion that most Trumpkins basically do not care a fig about foreign policy, Russia or anything. The positions they take are entirely to defend the President. But they are almost effectively opinionless on Russia and every foreign issue save one (more on that in a second).

The reason they defend and even adovcate for these most miserable of foreign policy actions, not even executed by his own Administration, is because they're making essentially a bargain. While they do not care about foreign policy, they do care about three things:

Guns
Greivences
and Race.


And towards that end, Trump can do whatever he wants, so long as he delivers there.

With respect to guns, the shit I've read the past 2 weeks has been pathological in its paranoia. As Democrats, Centrists and Moderates got angry at what Trump was doing, these Far right lunatics ran to their fucking guns. If they were christians, I'd accuse them of idoltry. As Americans, they've betrayed their values in the most fundamental of ways, as in our system of government, disputes are not settled through force, but through a political or legal process. But these people lack self esteem, and frankly, exhibit behavior I'd call paranoia about anyone but people excatly like this. Guns are their safety blanket.

With respect to Greivences, these people have thinly-sourced whines that they pin on anybody but themselves, that go back decades. As Trump was wrecking American security, they rather talk about things that pissed them off, years ago. As if that excused it (or as if it was well founded).

And lastly race. This is the big one. I've come to believe Donald Trump's foundation as a politician is that he is fundamentally a racist President and his supporters are with him precisely because he is as racist as they are. If i had to put a phrase to it, I'd say, they will let Trump do legitimately anything - really anything - so long as he works to keep the Whites In, the Blacks Down, and the Browns out. Donald Trump arrived to the scene at time when it really started to hit White boomers - his base - that they have far fewer days ahead of them than behind them, and the country was rapidly moving towards a highly cosmopolitian, multictural, multiracial society. Donald Trump is the last gasp of the racists to prevent this inevitably.

And I do mean last gasp, because numerically it cannot work. If Donald Trump ended illegal immigration entirely. and cut legal immigration to what he wanted it to, it would delay American's transition to a minority-majority country by just five years. When push comes to shove, Whites simply are not reproducing enough to numerically counteract this. For all the "victories" that Trump supporters feel they have, at the end of that five years, it still happens.

Whites In, Blacks Down, Browns Out. To the Trump supporter, everything else is something they're willing to trade away (foreign affairs) to get that, or gravy (trade war stuff) that they have caveats about. But the foundational philosophy of his movement is without a doubt White racial supremacy, and everything and everything will be tossed into the bonfire by these people to service that. They would have no problem with an America supplicant to Russia, second rate in the world as Russia and China reshaped it, so long as they could create an American where brown people can't get in, where black people know their place, and where white people run everything.

[Pazazu]

Whites In, Blacks Down, Browns Out. To the Trump supporter, everything else is something they're willing to trade away (foreign affairs) to get that, or gravy (trade war stuff) that they have caveats about. But the foundational philosophy of his movement is without a doubt White racial supremacy, and everything and everything will be tossed into the bonfire by these people to service that. They would have no problem with an America supplicant to Russia, second rate in the world as Russia and China reshaped it, so long as they could create an American where brown people can't get in, where black people know their place, and where white people run everything.

I honestly believe that it isn't a conscious thing. It's not, in their minds, so simple as "I need to protect my race from others."

It's rationalized internally, unspoken externally. It's the "Look man, there's nothing wrong with black people." in one breath and "It's all those lazy blacks sucking up welfare." a few breaths later. If you ever ask them about their racial views, they will say with complete sincerity that they have no hatred towards blacks (or Latino, or Arabic, etc), and that would be true. They don't hate them, but they do think of them in terms that would broad stroke the race in question as inferior. "Hey, look at the what they did to the Middle East, or Africa. Do you want that here?" Since their actions are not actually felt as malice towards another race, it justifies many things that are inherently racist in practice. There's no such thing as marginalization in their eyes, it all is a matter of the choices the individual makes. Since some blacks go to college and become doctors or lawyers, therefor any black person who is stuck in the ghetto is there by choice (and by extension, laziness). It's not racism to them, it's pragmatism. It's just how things are.

It's easy to work against the blatant racist, like the KKK or White Supremacist. They know they are racist. It's MUCH harder to show someone how they are racist if they honestly do not view themselves as one, or how they are in support of policies and legislation that is designed with racist intent.

[Mormolyce]

And I do mean last gasp, because numerically it cannot work. If Donald Trump ended illegal immigration entirely. and cut legal immigration to what he wanted it to, it would delay American's transition to a minority-majority country by just five years. When push comes to shove, Whites simply are not reproducing enough to numerically counteract this. For all the "victories" that Trump supporters feel they have, at the end of that five years, it still happens.

I frequently point out the issue with native born fertility rates to anti-immigration posters. They almost always come back with "yeah well, there's other ways to deal with that besides immigration".

As you can probably guess, they never have any specific ideas on what those ways might be. They're living in a fantasy bubble in their own heads.

- - - Updated - - -

I honestly believe that it isn't a conscious thing. It's not, in their minds, so simple as "I need to protect my race from others."

It's rationalized internally, unspoken externally. It's the "Look man, there's nothing wrong with black people." in one breath and "It's all those lazy blacks sucking up welfare." a few breaths later. If you ever ask them about their racial views, they will say with complete sincerity that they have no hatred towards blacks (or Latino, or Arabic, etc), and that would be true. They don't hate them, but they do think of them in terms that would broad stroke the race in question as inferior. "Hey, look at the what they did to the Middle East, or Africa. Do you want that here?" Since their actions are not actually felt as malice towards another race, it justifies many things that are inherently racist in practice. There's no such thing as marginalization in their eyes, it all is a matter of the choices the individual makes. Since some blacks go to college and become doctors or lawyers, therefor any black person who is stuck in the ghetto is there by choice (and by extension, laziness). It's not racism to them, it's pragmatism. It's just how things are.

It's easy to work against the blatant racist, like the KKK or White Supremacist. They know they are racist. It's MUCH harder to show someone how they are racist if they honestly do not view themselves as one, or how they are in support of policies and legislation that is designed with racist intent.

Or to put it all in four words, "I'm not racist, but...".

[Glnger]

I really wonder why after the Civil War, you let Confederate Pride alive. I've read the history of many countries that went through civil wars, and usually the losing side was shamed to the closet. Yet there in just a short time after they lost, they still were allowed to act like heroes.
The US never really got to be united, because the losing side was allowed to think they were on the right side of history.

and children educated in the south were told about the "war of northern aggression", and that it was about a state's rights to make laws issue and not slavery. I'm glad other people can thread the needle from the civil war confederates and the "neo-confederates" that are currently empowered. Jeff Sessions is literally named after Jefferson Davis, and General Beauregard that fought for the confederacy in the Civil War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._G._T._Beauregard

I very much feel this is a soft coup of sorts with the Republican party, or at least parts of it that represent a smaller and smaller minority of the American population (not necessarily voters, voter ID laws, gerrymandering, ect.) working with the Russians actively in the case of (Nune's, Manafort, Flynn, the NRA type) or passively (Mitch McConnel, Paul Ryan and every other Republican that is on an intelligence committee) and is sitting on their hands and let this farce continue day by day.

[DarkTZeratul]

I really wonder why after the Civil War, you let Confederate Pride alive.

Mostly because of Andrew Johnson. Lincoln was assassinated less than a week after Robert E. Lee's surrender, and his successor's primary interest was in speeding reunification as fast as possible. Unsurprisingly, this meant that most of the South, rather than being humbled by defeat, pretty much just grumbled and did their best to pretend things were the same way they'd been before the Civil War. Among other things, since Johnson's farce of a reconstruction plan left things like the rights of newly-freed slaves up to the same states that had just been forced at gunpoint to free them, the South found various ways to ensure that they remained slaves in all but name (such as paying them a pittance, charging them more for food and board than they were being paid, and then forcing them to keep working until they paid off their debt).

Beyond that, there was very little in the way of punitive actions against the Confederacy. Seized lands were returned to their owners, and none of the Confederate leaders were ever tried for treason. Virtually everyone who ever led or fought for the Confederacy was pardoned, including President Jefferson Davis. When Congress attempted more radical measures, Andrew Johnson openly called for the South to oppose them.

[Skroe]

Mostly because of Andrew Johnson. Lincoln was assassinated less than a week after Robert E. Lee's surrender, and his successor's primary interest was in speeding reunification as fast as possible. Unsurprisingly, this meant that most of the South, rather than being humbled by defeat, pretty much just grumbled and did their best to pretend things were the same way they'd been before the Civil War. Among other things, since Johnson's farce of a reconstruction plan left things like the rights of newly-freed slaves up to the same states that had just been forced at gunpoint to free them, the South found various ways to ensure that they remained slaves in all but name (such as paying them a pittance, charging them more for food and board than they were being paid, and then forcing them to keep working until they paid off their debt).

That's half of it (also @Nymrohd). The other half is the Compromise of 1877

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_of_1877

Basically in the 1876 Presidential Election between Rutherford B Hayes (Republican... remember this is post-Lincoln Republicans) and Samuel Tilden (Democrat,post-Civil War) was the closets in history... closer than 2000 and somehow even more bitter. Tilden won the popular vote by several hundred thousand. Tilden won 184 electoral votes outright (186 was needed to win then). Both claimed victory in several southern states that held the remaining 20 votes, which was complicated due to divided State governments and some practices by Republicans that would be called voter suppression nowdays. Through this, Hayes claimed all 20 votes, which Democrats refused to recognize. This was problematic because technically the President is formally appointed by counting of the Electoral Votes before the House and the Senate. Since Democrats had a majority in the House, they could effectively pick the winner by objecting to the votes of a disputed stated that voted for Hayes. Since both parties were properly executing their powers against each other, this was a Constitutional crisis.

Congress formed a Commission to clear it up from Congressmen, Senators and Supreme Court Justices. The Commission Came to no resolution but formalized a backroom deal struck between Republicans and Democrats, whereby Democrats would recognize that Hayes won all 20 electoral votes in the disputed States (thus making him President), if in exchange, Hayes (a Republican) withdrew US occupation forces from the former Confederate States of America, financed industrialization of the south, and allowed Southern States to handle Blacks as they saw fit (with respect to the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments). The Commission gave procedural cover to what was an extra-constitutional means of choosing the President... far more so than Bush vs Gore in, 2000. To give you a frame of reference, the manner in which the current President of Afghanistan was elected is somewhat similar (his rival being awarded the "Chief Executive" post created for him, however).

The Compromise of 1877 directly lead to the rapid reversal of gains for Blacks in the South made since 1865 and the institution of Jim Crow, Segregation and a century of human rights abuses against fellow Americans by the ex-Confederate States of America.

It's a lesson that being magnanimous in victory is sometimes a stupid thing. The leaders of the Confederate States of America should have been publicly mass executed and the States themselves reorganized into new States. It's entire population should have been forcibly relocated and dispersed across the continent by the US Army.

[DarkTZeratul]

That's half of it (also @Nymrohd). The other half is the Compromise of 1877

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compromise_of_1877

Basically in the 1876 Presidential Election between Rutherford B Hayes (Republican... remember this is post-Lincoln Republicans) and Samuel Tilden (Democrat,post-Civil War) was the closets in history... closer than 2000 and somehow even more bitter. Tilden won the popular vote by several hundred thousand. Tilden won 184 electoral votes outright (186 was needed to win then). Both claimed victory in several southern states that held the remaining 20 votes, which was complicated due to divided State governments and some practices by Republicans that would be called voter suppression nowdays. Through this, Hayes claimed all 20 votes, which Democrats refused to recognize. This was problematic because technically the President is formally appointed by counting of the Electoral Votes before the House and the Senate. Since Democrats had a majority in the House, they could effectively pick the winner by objecting to the votes of a disputed stated that voted for Hayes. Since both parties were properly executing their powers against each other, this was a Constitutional crisis.

Congress formed a Commission to clear it up from Congressmen, Senators and Supreme Court Justices. The Commission Came to no resolution but formalized a backroom deal struck between Republicans and Democrats, whereby Democrats would recognize that Hayes won all 20 electoral votes in the disputed States (thus making him President), if in exchange, Hayes (a Republican) withdrew US occupation forces from the former Confederate States of America, financed industrialization of the south, and allowed Southern States to handle Blacks as they saw fit (with respect to the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments). The Commission gave procedural cover to what was an extra-constitutional means of choosing the President... far more so than Bush vs Gore in, 2000. To give you a frame of reference, the manner in which the current President of Afghanistan was elected is somewhat similar (his rival being awarded the "Chief Executive" post created for him, however).

The Compromise of 1877 directly lead to the rapid reversal of gains for Blacks in the South made since 1865 and the institution of Jim Crow, Segregation and a century of human rights abuses against fellow Americans by the ex-Confederate States of America.

It's a lesson that being magnanimous in victory is sometimes a stupid thing. The leaders of the Confederate States of America should have been publicly mass executed and the States themselves reorganized into new States. It's entire population should have been forcibly relocated and dispersed across the continent by the US Army.

Fascinating. I knew that Hayes won by a margin of only a single electoral vote, but the Compromise of 1877 is a part of history I'd previously been unfamiliar with.

I'm actually reading a very thorough biography of Ulysses S. Grant right now by Ron Chernow, and I'm curious how much of this will come up (since it would have happened while Grant was basically on his deathbed).