Malygos vs Kil'jaeden

[ArenaDk]

The Aspects are utter jobbers. They constantly rely on the help of us mortals to get anything done (and usually that involves cleaning up messes that they have made). I don't think Malygos would stand a chance.

well this mortels wiped the floor with Archimonde and Kil jaeden two times. Without any special help. While we needed help for all aspect fights

[Deleted]

well this mortels wiped the floor with Archimonde and Kil jaeden two times. Without any special help. While we needed help for all aspect fights

not all, we didnt need help against ysera

[Farrarie]

well this mortels wiped the floor with Archimonde and Kil jaeden two times. Without any special help. While we needed help for all aspect fights

who told u that, read chronicles 3, and u will see KJ defeated us, the power of the sunwell banished him
and in Warcraft 3 the combination of humans, orcs and nightelf couldn't stop archimonde, we only did our best to keep him busy till malunion get his trap ready

[~Valen~]

still there is no evidence that the Avatar is stronger or even equal to KJ or Archimonde
day of the dragon stated, that Deathwing was afraid of corrupted mediv

Well, logically it should be, or even stronger. Many of the things we say are hypothetical.

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not all, we didnt need help against ysera

After she lost her powers, though.

[darkoms]

in the War of the Ancients it is plainly said that strength of Archimonde is a straw against the power of the Dragon Soul, where does it say that, and in what page
and I already told u Archimonde biggest weakness is his arrogance, he never get serios til the end when he cleared the battlefields of demons and night elves, and he even killed malorne using his physical strength, when his true strength is in magic
not forgetting that Huln Highmountain with the hammer of Hammer of Khaz'goroth banished deathwing

https://www.e-reading.club/chapter.p...emon_Soul.html
''The Dragon Soul struck.
Its attack came as a flash of the purest golden light, purer than the sun and stars, purer than the moon. It swept down across the demon horde and utterly vaporized the Burning Legion wherever it touched.
The demons howled. The demons shrieked. They spilled away from the killing light, fleeing as they had done before no foe, not even the night elves. Fear was a thing little known to their kind, but they felt it now.
The defenders at first watched in abject awe, so silent that one might have mistaken them for stone. Even the haughtiest among the nobles could not but gape at such power unleashed, power that made their command of the Well's energy laughable at best.
Among the night elves, Rhonin shook his head, repeating, "No…no…no…"
Farther away, Illidan watched the epic destruction with the utmost envy, realizing that all he had learned was nothing compared to what the dragons wielded.
And on the other side of the battle, Archimonde frowned as his monstrous force collapsed like straw before a single power.

I advise you to read the War of the Ancients. Deathwing broke the defense of the Dragon Soul, he beat his head against the protection of the disc and broke it. After that, terrible spells and Old Gods and Sargeras were used against him, and they threw him away from the place of battle. So when he returned to his lair, he was not in the best shape. And Huln defeated him not alone, the quests said that many tauren died in that battle. Not to mention the fact that the hammer of Kaz'Goroth is the hammer of that titan that gave Deathwing the power. I think it also somehow affected the outcome of the battle. You absolutely do not know lore, enough to argue.

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first of all read chronicles 3, he defeated us, the power of the sunwell what banished him at the last moment
and we had kalegos at our side

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still there is no evidence that the Avatar is stronger or even equal to KJ or Archimonde
day of the dragon stated, that Deathwing was afraid of corrupted mediv

I constantly see how someone says that Deathwing feared Medivh, but no one gives an exact quote. Could you do it?

[Qualia]

Well, logically it should be, or even stronger. Many of the things we say are hypothetical.

Logically, it should be weaker actually, given that Kil'Jaeden couldn't be sent to Azeroth using the Scepter but the Avatar could. Sargeras was sending the avatar to kill Aegwynn, with possessing her being his plan B only. If Kil'Jaeden was weaker than the avatar, Sargeras / the Legion would have a much easier time sending him or Archimonde to Azeroth during their invasions or even just to act as the assistant for the Avatar to kill Aegwynn.

I constantly see how someone says that Deathwing feared Medivh, but no one gives an exact quote. Could you do it?

Not him, but here is your quote from "Day of the Dragons": "Such strong will bred strong wizards — like Medivh. Only one name among humans had the black leviathan ever respected, and that had been Medivh's. Mad as a goblin—not to mention as unpredictable as one—he had wielded power unbelievable. Not even Deathwing would have faced him willingly."

(And I see that you are still reading Archimonde's force as his power / strength even though people have pointed it out that the only thing it shows is that you are an ESL, and "monstrous force" was referring to Archimonde's army instead)

[darkoms]

Logically, it should be weaker actually, given that Kil'Jaeden couldn't be sent to Azeroth using the Scepter but the Avatar could. Sargeras was sending the avatar to kill Aegwynn, with possessing her being his plan B only. If Kil'Jaeden was weaker than the avatar, Sargeras / the Legion would have a much easier time sending him or Archimonde to Azeroth during their invasions or even just to act as the assistant for the Avatar to kill Aegwynn.



Not him, but here is your quote from "Day of the Dragons": "Such strong will bred strong wizards — like Medivh. Only one name among humans had the black leviathan ever respected, and that had been Medivh's. Mad as a goblin—not to mention as unpredictable as one—he had wielded power unbelievable. Not even Deathwing would have faced him willingly."

(And I see that you are still reading Archimonde's force as his power / strength even though people have pointed it out that the only thing it shows is that you are an ESL, and "monstrous force" was referring to Archimonde's army instead)

It's only said that Deathwing did not want to run into him, not that he was afraid of him.
I do not really care what you think, I'm already used to the fact that you are fanboy of Archimonde and are no different from fanboys of Arthas. In your opinion, Archimonde killed Malorne effortlessly, and the Scepter of Sargeras can destroy the universe.

[Qualia]

In your opinion, Archimonde killed Malorne effortlessly, and the Scepter of Sargeras can destroy the universe.

If by my opinion, you meant canonical with quotes from Blizzard, yes. Unlike you, I understand English properly. Surely, in your opinion, "Such an instrument would also weaken the integrity of the physical universe and threaten to collapse it, but Sargeras considered those to be only side benefits" doesn't mean it could destroy the universe at all. Surely, in your version of the book, Archimonde didn't just killed Malorne without using any magic other than the one to adjust his size at all. I understand, I understand.

And yeah, Deathwing admitting that he wouldn't dare to fight against Medivh, someone (1) whose power considered "unbelieveable" by Deathwing and (2) isn't on the same side as him (opposite side, in fact), doesn't mean the black dragon was afraid of Medivh... not. I thought that after the last time, you would have learned more English, but I guess that was just a waste of time. As I said the last time, I wouldn't be wasting time discussing with someone who can't even understand the original sources. I would just provide the quotes for others who are better at comprehending than you, that'd be all.

I'm not really fan of any character, organization or faction in particular. I'm just not fan of people spreading headcanons - not even if said user literally didn't even understand the source.

[darkoms]

If by my opinion, you meant canonical with quotes from Blizzard, yes. Unlike you, I understand English properly. Surely, in your opinion, "Such an instrument would also weaken the integrity of the physical universe and threaten to collapse it, but Sargeras considered those to be only side benefits" doesn't mean it could destroy the universe at all. Surely, in your version of the book, Archimonde didn't just killed Malorne without using any magic other than the one to adjust his size at all. I understand, I understand.

And yeah, Deathwing admitting that he wouldn't dare to fight against Medivh, someone (1) whose power considered "unbelieveable" by Deathwing and (2) isn't on the same side as him (opposite side, in fact), doesn't mean the black dragon was afraid of Medivh... not. I thought that after the last time, you would have learned more English, but I guess that was just a waste of time. As I said the last time, I wouldn't be wasting time discussing with someone who can't even understand the original sources. I would just provide the quotes for others who are better at comprehending than you, that'd be all.

Once you persistently argued that Archimonde easily defeated Malorne, but the only reason that after that he fled from Malfurion is that of Malfurion-Mary Sue, and on another occasion you wrote that Tiyr lost to Galakrond simply because the plot demanded it. I do not know how to argue with you, because for any proof you can just say "it does not mean anything, just blizzard wanted it to happen"

Neltharion is stronger than Malygos, but afraid of Medivh? Interesting...

[Qualia]

Once you persistently argued that Archimonde easily defeated Malorne, but the only reason that after that he fled from Malfurion is that of Malfurion-Mary Sue, and on another occasion you wrote that Tiyr lost to Galakrond simply because the plot demanded it. I do not know how to argue with you, because for any proof you can just say "it does not mean anything, just blizzard wanted it to happen"

Neltharion is stronger than Malygos, but afraid of Medivh? Interesting...

I could have pointed out all of those arguments were backed up by facts from the original source, but then I realized... what's the point? You couldn't even understand it at all. Nope, not wasting time here.

[darkoms]

I could have pointed out all of those arguments were backed up by facts from the original source, but then I realized... what's the point? You couldn't even understand it at all. Nope, not wasting time here.

What arguments?
As I recall, you were told that Archimonde in the ''Dragon Soul'' could easily kill Malfurion and almost did it, but in '' The Sundering'', AFTER the battle with Malorne, he escapes from Malfurion. To this you answered that it was simply Malfurion=Mary Sue

[ArenaDk]

I could have pointed out all of those arguments were backed up by facts from the original source, but then I realized... what's the point? You couldn't even understand it at all. Nope, not wasting time here.

people who write this , have lost the argument

[Qualia]

people who write this , have lost the argument

You would have written that as well if you had to spend dozens (literally) pages and hours of posting to convince someone, just for him to admit later that English wasn't his mothertongue, but then kept claiming that "Archimonde's monstrous force" meant "Archimonde's strength / power", and not his army at all. At that point, I realized that, whelp, I just wasted a bunch of time. It was clear that no matter what I say, since he didn't understand English (and that wasn't an attempt at ad-hominem, just stating fact), nothing I said could change his opinion. Another example being the "Scepter of Sargeras"' lore text: it clearly stated that it could threaten to collapse the universe there, but the guy argued that it didn't mean it could destroy the universe at all. I don't know about you, but personally, I believe that we have discussions so we can trade opinions and (hopefully) get something fruitful from that - it's hardly the case when one side don't even properly understand the original source and have no intention of listening - in this case, not even opinion, just the definition of the words.

Edit: I mean, just look at his next post below this one. When the paragraph was "Its attack came as a flash of the purest golden light, purer than the sun and stars, purer than the moon. It swept down across the demon horde and utterly vaporized the Burning Legion wherever it touched. The demons howled. The demons shrieked. They spilled away from the killing light, fleeing as they had done before no foe, not even the night elves. <...> And on the other side of the battle, Archimonde frowned as his monstrous force collapsed like straw before a single power", and the guy is still asking - this is after I spent dozens of pages trying to explain it to him last thread - if I have any proof that "monstrous force" didn't refer to Archimonde's personal power, but his army instead, what should I do? I certainly am not an English teacher in real life, so if someone can't even understand English, there is little I can do to help.

What arguments?
As I recall, you were told that Archimonde in the ''Dragon Soul'' could easily kill Malfurion and almost did it, but in '' The Sundering'', AFTER the battle with Malorne, he escapes from Malfurion. To this you answered that it was simply Malfurion=Mary Sue

I wouldn't call Malfurion (or any character in WoW for that matter) "Mary Sue", as they simply aren't. In fact, I don't quite like that people misuse the terms so often nowadays that almost every characters remotely got their stuffs together are called Sues. However, if you meant Malfurion is extremely powerful, then yes, he is. Malfurion is one of the most powerful being on Azeroth. Your point was? Are you saying he wasn't?

[Hablion]

An Interesting match-up would of been a Fully Powered up perfectly awakened Chromatus VS KJ

[darkoms]

You would have written that as well if you had to spend dozens (literally) pages and hours of posting to convince someone, just for him to admit later that English wasn't his mothertongue, but then kept claiming that "Archimonde's monstrous force" meant "Archimonde's strength / power", and not his army at all. At that point, I realized that no matter what I say, since he didn't understand English (and that wasn't an attempt at ad-hominem, just stating fact), nothing I said could change his opinion. We have discussions so we can trade opinions and (hopefully) get something fruitful from that - it's hardly the case when one side don't even properly understand the original source.

Can you prove to me that it was said about his army, and not about himself? Maybe Knaak explained it somewhere else? You are simply fanboy of Archimonde

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An Interesting match-up would of been a Fully Powered up perfectly awakened Chromatus VS KJ

Chromatus, easy

[Qualia]

Can you prove to me that it was said about his army, and not about himself? Maybe Knaak explained it somewhere else? You are simply fanboy of Archimonde

Aaand the fact that you are still stubbornly saying this is why I said it'd be a waste of time. Ask anyone who understand English to explain it to you, if you think I'm being biased - not that I'm a fanboy of Archimonde, or anything in WoW for that matter. Nice attempt at ad-hominem, though.

[Farrarie]

I constantly see how someone says that Deathwing feared Medivh, but no one gives an exact quote. Could you do it?

Despite Deathwing's overall loathing of mortals, he has respect for, and perhaps even a fear of, Medivh, stating in Day of the Dragon, that he would never willingly face Medivh in combat, though this might technically be fear of the portion of Sargeras locked inside Medivh.

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It's only said that Deathwing did not want to run into him, not that he was afraid of him.
I do not really care what you think, I'm already used to the fact that you are fanboy of Archimonde and are no different from fanboys of Arthas. In your opinion, Archimonde killed Malorne effortlessly, and the Scepter of Sargeras can destroy the universe.

he killed Malorne is physical combat, when Archimonde strength is in magic, and Archimonde is a very arrogant and like to play with his foe
like after killing malorne, malfurion tried to wrap him with veins of trees, but he burned them and left, and the same thing for the whole war, he could killed all the night elves and demons from the start of the battlefield, but he left it til the end, and then he showed Jarrod his true power by clearing the battlefield effortless leaving him and jarrod alone

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Aaand the fact that you are still stubbornly saying this is why I said it'd be a waste of time. Ask anyone who understand English to explain it to you, if you think I'm being biased - not that I'm a fanboy of Archimonde, or anything in WoW for that matter. Nice attempt at ad-hominem, though.

Deathwing got banished by Huln Highmountain using the hammer of khaz'goroth ������ wich we players beat the dragul king when he weild it

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Aaand the fact that you are still stubbornly saying this is why I said it'd be a waste of time. Ask anyone who understand English to explain it to you, if you think I'm being biased - not that I'm a fanboy of Archimonde, or anything in WoW for that matter. Nice attempt at ad-hominem, though.

Deathwing got banished by Huln Highmountain using the hammer of khaz'goroth

[ArenaDk]

Despite Deathwing's overall loathing of mortals, he has respect for, and perhaps even a fear of, Medivh, stating in Day of the Dragon, that he would never willingly face Medivh in combat, though this might technically be fear of the portion of Sargeras locked inside Medivh.

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he killed Malorne is physical combat, when Archimonde strength is in magic, and Archimonde is a very arrogant and like to play with his foe
like after killing malorne, malfurion tried to wrap him with veins of trees, but he burned them and left, and the same thing for the whole war, he could killed all the night elves and demons from the start of the battlefield, but he left it til the end, and then he showed Jarrod his true power by clearing the battlefield effortless leaving him and jarrod alone

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Deathwing got banished by Huln Highmountain using the hammer of khaz'goroth ������ wich we players beat the dragul king when he weild it

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Deathwing got banished by Huln Highmountain using the hammer of khaz'goroth

Archimonde couldnt kill Grom ??????? Grom is a normal orc with normal axe ?!?!?!!? Yeah i can use random power comparisons too and spam questionmarks.

But Drakul is not Huln. They may used the same TITAN powerd weapon but who knows if Drakul if knew 1% of its power.

and it was already said ,,I advise you to read the War of the Ancients. Deathwing broke the defense of the Dragon Soul, he beat his head against the protection of the disc and broke it. After that, terrible spells and Old Gods and Sargeras were used against him, and they threw him away from the place of battle. So when he returned to his lair, he was not in the best shape. And Huln defeated him not alone, the quests said that many tauren died in that battle. Not to mention the fact that the hammer of Kaz'Goroth is the hammer of that titan that gave Deathwing the power. I think it also somehow affected the outcome of the battle. You absolutely do not know lore, enough to argue.´´

Archimonde lost to mere mortals without artifact weapons or any major powerup. While we NEEDED the empored Dragonsoul ( strongest weapon ever made on Azeroth , you know the usual stuff) to even Wound Deathwing in a way that we could try kill him. And he survived an unprotected hit of the Dragonsoul , which was able to destroy armys of demons and dragons.

So you can decide Huln is litteraly the strongest being on Azeroth or the hammer of Khaz´goroth may be a really strong weapon in the right hands vs a weakend enemy.

We shouldnt even compare someone who was KILLED by MORTALS without any speciall weapon to someone who had to be defeated by 4 Aspects, Dragonsoul, a group of adventures ( which were enough for archimonde ) , and weakening him beforehand. And that all while Deathwing wasnt even right in his head anymore.

[Qualia]

Deathwing got banished by Huln Highmountain using the hammer of khaz'goroth ������ wich we players beat the dragul king when he weild it

To be fair, Deathwing was gravely injured at that point, as he were just being torn apart by his own power, Sargeras' spell and the Old Gods', finally ended up being physically bashed over the horizon from the Well of Eternity at the end. He wasn't anywhere near tip-top shape.

(Although I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the point I was making in that post or other posts in this thread Are you sure you didn't misquote?)

On the other hand, this isn't quite right either:

Archimonde lost to mere mortals without artifact weapons or any major powerup. While we NEEDED the empored Dragonsoul ( strongest weapon ever made on Azeroth , you know the usual stuff) to even Wound Deathwing in a way that we could try kill him. And he survived an unprotected hit of the Dragonsoul , which was able to destroy armys of demons and dragons.

Archimonde lost to mortals using weapons empowered by the power of the heart an entire planet (Draenor), as stated in the quest text ("Arise, champion. Know that the primal heart of Draenor burns within you") or the equivalent of it for the Alliance rings (the Naaru are powerful lore-wise, one of the example being T'uure whose shard were used to create the Priest Artifact in "Legion"). Said power was strong enough that even a weaker version of it killed us the previous time Khadgar augmented our rings. I don't know how the rings fare against the most powerful artifacts (i.e: Scepter, Ulthalesh, etc.), but they should be very well comparable to artifact weapons and hardly not "major power-up", unless Draenor was exceptionally weak or something. The legendaries in MoP / WoD might not seem fancy because of how easy they were to attain, but they were extremely powerful lore-wise.

I was going to address the needs for the Dragon Soul, but I guess you aren't wrong to say that we needed it to kill him. Just keep in mind that, even without the Dragon Soul, we could still injure Deathwing just fine. We just didn't want him to recover and come back later. In other words, the needs of the Dragon Soul was more about Deathwing's awesome regenerative ability than his destructive power.

[Farrarie]

Archimonde couldnt kill Grom ??????? Grom is a normal orc with normal axe ?!?!?!!? Yeah i can use random power comparisons too and spam questionmarks.

But Drakul is not Huln. They may used the same TITAN powerd weapon but who knows if Drakul if knew 1% of its power.

and it was already said ,,I advise you to read the War of the Ancients. Deathwing broke the defense of the Dragon Soul, he beat his head against the protection of the disc and broke it. After that, terrible spells and Old Gods and Sargeras were used against him, and they threw him away from the place of battle. So when he returned to his lair, he was not in the best shape. And Huln defeated him not alone, the quests said that many tauren died in that battle. Not to mention the fact that the hammer of Kaz'Goroth is the hammer of that titan that gave Deathwing the power. I think it also somehow affected the outcome of the battle. You absolutely do not know lore, enough to argue.´´

Archimonde lost to mere mortals without artifact weapons or any major powerup. While we NEEDED the empored Dragonsoul ( strongest weapon ever made on Azeroth , you know the usual stuff) to even Wound Deathwing in a way that we could try kill him. And he survived an unprotected hit of the Dragonsoul , which was able to destroy armys of demons and dragons.

So you can decide Huln is litteraly the strongest being on Azeroth or the hammer of Khaz´goroth may be a really strong weapon in the right hands vs a weakend enemy.

We shouldnt even compare someone who was KILLED by MORTALS without any speciall weapon to someone who had to be defeated by 4 Aspects, Dragonsoul, a group of adventures ( which were enough for archimonde ) , and weakening him beforehand. And that all while Deathwing wasnt even right in his head anymore.

Blizzard F ed Archimonde lore in WOD, our combined force of night elves orcs and humans couldn't stop him, he cleared a full battlie field without effort, destroyed dalaran like its a sand castle, get beaten by 20 players and 2 buffed orc an arch mage and a dreanai marry sue is madness.
Deathwing couldn't even kill Gruul