Morally Grey? ARE YOU KIDDING ME.[Spoilers]

[FelPlague]

Ok so lets look at this from a 3rd persons perspective.

- Goblins send a civilian expedition to claim stake and mine the azerite in silithus.

-Alliance sends spies to infiltrate and steal it. They don't send merchants to try and buy some or an envoy to try and negotiate equal mining rights they send armed infiltrators.( its easy to assume that some of them were killed during selfdefense coz they were trespassing and resisting arest)

-At this point Sylvanas gets the message and mobilizes the Horde to go to the crossroads and wait(she didn't ordered str8 march to silithus she just mobilised the army)

-At this same point in time what does the alliance do, they tel SI7 to hire assassins and kill all the civilan goblin miners. (so twice instead of negotiating alliance commits acts of war and murder)

-Now Sylvanas has decision to make does she march her Horde all the way south to Silithus and leave Orgrimar exposed (those goblins will surely be dead by the time the army arrives and doing nothing will look as a great sign of weakness) so she chooses a third a bit risky option to Blitzkrieg Darnassus.( This move strategically makes huge sense, you put pressure on the enemy thus the chance of them sieging Orgrimar becomes minimal and on the other side even if that happens your armies are much closer to home)

-Now fast forward to the beach in darkshore where Sylvanas defeats the elves ( and Malfurion previously) but Tyrande is nowhere to be seen. If Tyrande was a real leader to her people she would have gone to plead for mercy for her people. She is obviously nowhere to be seen soo what is Sylvanas to think. Is it more probable that their leader has abandoned them to the mercy of the Horde or that the tree might be empty and rigged for self-destruct once the Horde enters it.( Night-elves have already self-destructed Nordrasil to kill Kil'Jaeden so it wont be first for them).

1. they are not civilian, they are mercs hired by gazlowe and fully armed, they are goblins, they will kill a child for a few coin, every one of them
2 Yes, its neutral territory, Horde does not have right to it, its cenarion land not theirs, so for the Alliance to go and take some is no where near a war crime. also you seem to forget they tried to talk to the horde about it but the horde refused to respond AND EVEN KILLED SPIES Also its not trespassing, if you and me are out in the town and enter a store, you cannot then shoot me for "trespassing" it is public property THAT YOU DONT OWN. Also resisting arrest? how the fuck did they "resist arrest"
3. no i think you forget the horde is sent to silithus to mine azerite and kill any alliance they see, as they DO NOT WANT THE ALLIANCE TO FIND OUT, they then refuse communication, and kill alliance on sight, even attacking the alliance camp as it is being built. The horde then kills spies and the alliance is forced to start sending in troops to retaliate.
4. again "civilian goblins" is not really a thing, again they tried to negotiate but the horde was killing alliance ON SIGHT and refusing to talk to them, these goblins are hired mercs by gallywix with bodyguards and shredders with massive BLADES (not something you use for mining is it)
5. she actually does send horde into sillithus to kill alliance if you actually did the quest and there has been a constant war going on there the whole time.
6. uhh what "no where to be seen" she is busy fighting back the horde, she does not go plea mercy cause the horde has just commit mass genocide of civilians, it is obvious even if she "surrenders' that the horde will just kill them all anyways.


This is the most pathetic attempt I have ever seen.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I haven't played any of the test realms, but someone said (authoritative source ikr ) all we get are table missions where Night Elves fight guerilla war and Horde takes refuge in cities in nothern Kalimdor - kind of like 'green zones' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Indeed, so at first glance I do agree that her play as awash, yet I still feel we will need something more direct than just a tangential reference on table missions. Cause if the resolution of that is just the "NE are totally still fighting" on a table mission and that's it, it would be pretty lame lets be real.

[FelPlague]

Indeed, so at first glance I do agree that her play as awash, yet I still feel we will need something more direct than just a tangential reference on table missions. Cause if the resolution of that is just the "NE are totally still fighting" on a table mission and that's it, it would be pretty lame lets be real.

I haven't played any of the test realms, but someone said (authoritative source ikr ) all we get are table missions where Night Elves fight guerilla war and Horde takes refuge in cities in nothern Kalimdor - kind of like 'green zones' in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://ru.wowhead.com/news=284410/th...eroth-spoilers

[LazarusLong]

Darkshore, originally controlled by the Alliance, is divided, with the Horde controlling the South and the North areas of the zone and the Alliance controlling the inner parts of it. Exceptions are the Ruins of Auberdine, which are being excavated by new Azerite-powered Shredders, with Alliance troops arriving to attack it, and the mountains above Shatterspear are currently home to Night Elven hippogryphs, which are attacking the village. Alliance forces are also attacking the Horde base at the Grove of the Ancients.

Ashenvale is drowned in conflict, with the Horde holding Zoram'gar Outpost, from where they plan to attack Azuremyst Isle, Silverwind Refuge, under attack from the Sentinels, Splintertree Post, currently besieged, and Warsong Lumber Camp, under attack by the Dryads. The Alliance controls the passage to Darkshore, Maestra's posts, which is currently under attack by the Orcish army, Astranaar, currently besieged, Stardust Spire, currently under attack by the Orcish Army, Raynewood Retreat, and Forest Song.

Razor Hill is under attack by the Sentinels and the Echo Islands under attack by the Alliance Navy. Up North, in Azshara, Bilgewater Harbor is under attack by Sentinels to clear the way for a direct Attack to Orgrimmar.

Sylvanas, the military genius.

[Mifuyne]

Twilight still better story than burning of teldrassil.
/memes

[Deleted]

As soon as these warchiefs get elected barring vol jin. They just say fuck it I want a war. Some bull shit excuse.
Either fuck off the watched title and be governed by a council. Or bring back stable leaders who can't be arsed fighting the rival faction. Skirmishes out in the world make sense but a full scale war is just a waste of time.

Blizzard resort to a faction war every other expansion. And then another big bad rears his ugly head and we have to work together. There is enough azerite for everyone. So it's hardly worth fighting for. Bfa will suck

[Darth Belias]

The exact same thing happened with Garrosh.

Large amount of playerbase got their fee fees hurt because Garrosh wasn't Thrall so he became a raid boss. Blizz no doubt listened to a very vocal part of the playerbase again instead of thinking that not everyone wanted her gone.

New horde is going to be Saurfang as chief woop dee doo hope you're happy.

I'd be all for an evil warchief if it didn't guarantee her death or exile post expansion. She'll also meet a really unsatisfying end, like Garrosh.

[Andonais]

FYI people are getting the collectors edition novellas now.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=286021/s...-with-nobbel87

[Eazy]

Now do you think II'ygynoth words about "The the hour of her third death" is more and more toward Sylvanas than Azeroth?

http://www.wowhead.com/news=277483.2...ynoth-spoilers

Kinad old, but yeah. Check it.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

How and in what god damn plain of existence is Sylvanas morally grey, They just straight up made Sylv the epitome of Lich King and Garrosh combined, there was no shades anywhere, what the hell blizzard.

ORALLY grey. They meant her teeth are grey. Simple typo.

- - - Updated - - -

The exact same thing happened with Garrosh.

Large amount of playerbase got their fee fees hurt because Garrosh wasn't Thrall so he became a raid boss. Blizz no doubt listened to a very vocal part of the playerbase again instead of thinking that not everyone wanted her gone.

New horde is going to be Saurfang as chief woop dee doo hope you're happy.

I'd be all for an evil warchief if it didn't guarantee her death or exile post expansion. She'll also meet a really unsatisfying end, like Garrosh.

They should have let Vol'jin be the one to hunt down Garrosh. It was his time. Then they could have gone on to develop him into the strong but honorable Warchief the Horde deserves.

[Maylander]

They should have let Vol'jin be the one to hunt down Garrosh. It was his time. Then they could have gone on to develop him into the strong but honorable Warchief the Horde deserves.

That could really have worked. Having the next Warchief do something major to deserve the mantle of Warchief would probably work a lot better than "hey, now you're the Warchief". It would allow them to really build the character up over time to be a uniting force among the player base.

[misstres]

1. they are not civilian, they are mercs hired by gazlowe and fully armed, they are goblins, they will kill a child for a few coin, every one of them
2 Yes, its neutral territory, Horde does not have right to it, its cenarion land not theirs, so for the Alliance to go and take some is no where near a war crime. also you seem to forget they tried to talk to the horde about it but the horde refused to respond AND EVEN KILLED SPIES Also its not trespassing, if you and me are out in the town and enter a store, you cannot then shoot me for "trespassing" it is public property THAT YOU DONT OWN. Also resisting arrest? how the fuck did they "resist arrest"
3. no i think you forget the horde is sent to silithus to mine azerite and kill any alliance they see, as they DO NOT WANT THE ALLIANCE TO FIND OUT, they then refuse communication, and kill alliance on sight, even attacking the alliance camp as it is being built. The horde then kills spies and the alliance is forced to start sending in troops to retaliate.
4. again "civilian goblins" is not really a thing, again they tried to negotiate but the horde was killing alliance ON SIGHT and refusing to talk to them, these goblins are hired mercs by gallywix with bodyguards and shredders with massive BLADES (not something you use for mining is it)
5. she actually does send horde into sillithus to kill alliance if you actually did the quest and there has been a constant war going on there the whole time.
6. uhh what "no where to be seen" she is busy fighting back the horde, she does not go plea mercy cause the horde has just commit mass genocide of civilians, it is obvious even if she "surrenders' that the horde will just kill them all anyways.


This is the most pathetic attempt I have ever seen.

1.Would you send totally unnarmed miners to fuckin Silithus. Ofc they had to have some mercs with them for protection.(They were not sent to kill children they were sent on a mining expedition)
2.Its neutral territory until you stake your claim, they did not entered a 3rd party store, the Horde built themselves a house(a mine to be more exact) and Alliance wanted to enter Hordes house and take what they need killing few of the guests in meantime.
3. Why was the alliance building camp so close to hordes already established mine, just for research purposes I presume.
4. Yes we see those shredders everywhere for cutting wood so its standard mining equipment.
6.Imagine a horde warchief fleeing instead of participating in a final stand and leaving his people behind to get slaughtered (unthinkable right). Also another food for thought,why was there like 0 drenei present in defence of darkshore are you telling me they couldn't have mustered a single ship.(and what happened to their space ship the Legion is dead so I persume they still have a fully operational space ship). Siegeing the tree would have cost too much resources, storming it would have been suicide probably but burning it sends a message and frees up the army for other matters.

[Deleted]

1.Would you send totally unnarmed miners to fuckin Silithus. Ofc they had to have some mercs with them for protection.(They were not sent to kill children they were sent on a mining expedition)
2.Its neutral territory until you stake your claim, they did not entered a 3rd party store, the Horde built themselves a house(a mine to be more exact) and Alliance wanted to enter Hordes house and take what they need killing few of the guests in meantime.
3. Why was the alliance building camp so close to hordes already established mine, just for research purposes I presume.
4. Yes we see those shredders everywhere for cutting wood so its standard mining equipment.
6.Imagine a horde warchief fleeing instead of participating in a final stand and leaving his people behind to get slaughtered (unthinkable right). Also another food for thought,why was there like 0 drenei present in defence of darkshore are you telling me they couldn't have mustered a single ship.(and what happened to their space ship the Legion is dead so I persume they still have a fully operational space ship). Siegeing the tree would have cost too much resources, storming it would have been suicide probably but burning it sends a message and frees up the army for other matters.

You really have to take the stuff from the book into account. Gallywix is sending killing squads out long before there's an Alliance base camp. They chase away the Nightelves coming to look for any sign of survivors at Cenarion Hold, which was a Nightelven Hold (though neutral, because it was used as a neutral staging ground against C'thun) and trying to heal the wound, even before Magni contacted Anduin. After that they attack and kill a whole expedition of researchers, who are actually trying to stay away from the Goblins. This is all before the player comes in and attacks Goblins (without having an explicit order to do so, may I add.)

[Thalassian Bob]

Some of the rationalising and apologetics here for Sylvanas' actions in Darkshore are pretty good. But, while the burning of Teldrassil made sense militarily in a 'revolutionary terror' sort of way, it makes very little sense for the Dark Lady to rile up her enemies so completely, when, last time we were informed, her key motivation is staying alive. You don't do things that would enrage half a planet when you are trying to avoid death.

Plus, to have her act so devilishly (even more so than usual) means, I fear, it is inevitable that we repeat Garrosh's storyline and BfA ends with Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0.

That is, unless, Blizzard pulls something out of their backsides retroactively like Sylvanas knew Elune was an Old God so Teldrassil had to be burned to protect Azeroth or something equally pathetic...

I'm really disappointed with the exceptionally bland, LotR level of moral polarisation that seems to forming between the factions in BfA. The Alliance appears completely squeaky clean and, once again, the Horde will be set at odds with its faction leader who crosses a moral event horizon.

It would have been so much more interesting if the Alliance had been the aggressors, with Jaina and Genn whispering in young, impressionable Anduin's ear and the Horde had been forced on the defence, with Sylvanas being its unlikely protector, justifying Vol'jin's strange deathbed choice of successor.

Right now, Vol'jin, like Thrall before him, looks like a moron for their choice of successor.

I say all this as someone who adored Sylvanas before and still likes her now despite her loss of depth/complexity.

[Fayenoor]

How and in what god damn plain of existence is Sylvanas morally grey, They just straight up made Sylv the epitome of Lich King and Garrosh combined, there was no shades anywhere, what the hell blizzard.

Not really. Burning the tree was strategically needed. May I ask where was Anduin and Greymane when the Darnassus was getting attacked?

[Verdugo]

Why was it needed to burn the tree? The original plan was much better. Take all the civilians on the tree hostage so that the Night Elves can't move against the Horde without risking retaliation. With the tree burned all they did was make a bunch of Genn Greymanes out of the Night Elf survivors. They're all going to be after some revenge now.

Thats what happens when Blizzard listens to Alliance whines. Whole Horde story has gone to shitter at their expense.

[Deleted]

So Sylvanas pulled one more Gilneas. What's the commotion about. As morally grey (mane) as before.

[Qualia]

Not really. Burning the tree was strategically needed. May I ask where was Anduin and Greymane when the Darnassus was getting attacked?

Strategically needed doesn't mean it's free of moral implications, though. And going by the preview of the novellas, Anduin and Genn were organizing the force to help Darnassus, just like what a leader should do? It's not like they were partying around without slightest care in the world.
(Additionally, how much needed it is is questionable. Strategically, getting hostages instead of burning them would be more beneficial, burning the tree or not)

[FelPlague]

1.Would you send totally unnarmed miners to fuckin Silithus. Ofc they had to have some mercs with them for protection.(They were not sent to kill children they were sent on a mining expedition)
2.Its neutral territory until you stake your claim, they did not entered a 3rd party store, the Horde built themselves a house(a mine to be more exact) and Alliance wanted to enter Hordes house and take what they need killing few of the guests in meantime.
3. Why was the alliance building camp so close to hordes already established mine, just for research purposes I presume.
4. Yes we see those shredders everywhere for cutting wood so its standard mining equipment.
6.Imagine a horde warchief fleeing instead of participating in a final stand and leaving his people behind to get slaughtered (unthinkable right). Also another food for thought,why was there like 0 drenei present in defence of darkshore are you telling me they couldn't have mustered a single ship.(and what happened to their space ship the Legion is dead so I persume they still have a fully operational space ship). Siegeing the tree would have cost too much resources, storming it would have been suicide probably but burning it sends a message and frees up the army for other matters.

1. if they are civilians why should they be armed, and attack alliance on sight? that does not seem civilian to me...
2. "it is neutral, but the alliance still entered horde territory" is it neutral or is it horde territory, make up your fucking mind
3. gameplay reasons, but literally the horde sent attacks OF MINERS to kill the alliance before the alliance had attacked a single horde in silithus.
4. CUTTING WOOD AND MINING ARE NOTHING ALIKE, HOLY FUCK
5. lol i love how you skip 5 cause you know you are speaking out of nothing.
6. the attack was VERY SUDDEN the whole point is it was done before anyone could get there, and the horde was slaughtering hundreds of civilians before the alliance even knew they were being attacked cause they were killing EVERYONE so the alliance did not even know what was going on till the mass wisps showed up.
also there was a fair amount of draenei, guess you did not even do the quest to see the draenei civilians in the burning.
sieging it would have cost too much or been impossible!? IT HAS NOTHING BUT INNOCENTS, SYLVANAS KNOWS THAT AND EVEN AGREES Sieging it and taking it would have been easy at that point, also speaking that tyrande herself said "we cant win, make sure to get all of our civilians out to make it as painless as possible for both sides.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really. Burning the tree was strategically needed. May I ask where was Anduin and Greymane when the Darnassus was getting attacked?

1. it was literally just civilians, sylvanas knew this, and tyrande herself said "we are going to lose, lets get all of our civilians out to make it as pleasent as possible for both sides"
2. The attack was VERY sudden, the whole point was to get the alliance busy with silithus, then to suddenly have darnasus attacked they could not really react, genn made it just in time to save his wife and the kid.

- - - Updated - - -

So Sylvanas pulled one more Gilneas. What's the commotion about. As morally grey (mane) as before.

Another gilneas
another southshore.
yeah.

[Primemrip]

War makes us strong and we need to be strong for what we are about to face.