Trump says Trump Tower meeting meant to obtain information on Clinton

[Jtbrig7390]

There's actually a perfect cartoon for this:

That's like Tim Burton levels of scary looking lol but ya its perfect.

[Dacien]

Another day, another act of you being an apologist for evil and treason.

Jesus christ Dacien, at this point it's fact Trump Jr. went into that meeting knowing exactly what it was about - and the intent itself there is a serious crime which will put him away for years. And it's growing in likelihood by the week that Donald Trump knew that the meeting was about before it even happened.

And put all that aside: In July 2017, President Donald J. Trump personally authored a lie directed to the American people to protect his son and himself from legal exposure. A lie that he knew was a lie.
Here, I'll repost it for you:



President Donald Trump personally dictated that on Air Force One, with the "authorship" being credited, also falsely, from Donald Trump Jr. Every word in it is a lie.

If you don't demand his resignation now, for lying to the American people, you have no patriotism to speak of. No matter what his politics, the President of the United States does not get to lie to the American people in order to protect himself and his family from legal repercussions. That is the very DEFINITION of corruption.

Do you demand he resign? Yes or no.

As I pointed out in the post you quoted, it's clear that Trump Jr. was told it was "Russian government" information. My only point of contention was that I don't subscribe to the characterization that Veselnitskaya had any meaningfully deep ties or back channels to the Russian government. I'm aware of reports that she passed along some info to a Kremlin-connected individual at one point, but I think the bulk of what she did was legal work, for example a two-year long case with Glenn Simpson.

A small point, I admit, but that was my point.


But let's get to your contention that it was a serious crime. It's been beaten to death, so I'll cut right to it: "Thing of value" is the operative phrase that people are pointing to to declare illegality, and it's debated whether information falls under the pertinent CFR.

Do I demand he resign? If it's found that his campaign committed illegal acts to influence the election took place, sure. In my not-a-lawyer mind? I don't see how Hillary hiring intermediaries to contact Russian officials to dig up dirt on an opposing candidate is just fine yet the Trump Jr. meeting wasn't fine. Either they're both illegal or neither are, and I'm of the mind that neither were.

[Machismo]

As I pointed out in the post you quoted, it's clear that Trump Jr. was told it was "Russian government" information. My only point of contention was that I don't subscribe to the characterization that Veselnitskaya had any meaningfully deep ties or back channels to the Russian government. I'm aware of reports that she passed along some info to a Kremlin-connected individual at one point, but I think the bulk of what she did was legal work, for example a two-year long case with Glenn Simpson.

A small point, I admit, but that was my point.


But let's get to your contention that it was a serious crime. It's been beaten to death, so I'll cut right to it: "Thing of value" is the operative phrase that people are pointing to to declare illegality, and it's debated whether information falls under the pertinent CFR.

Do I demand he resign? If evidence of illegal acts to influence the election took place, sure. In my not-a-lawyer mind? I don't see how Hillary hiring intermediaries to contact Russian officials to dig up dirt on an opposing candidate is just fine yet the Trump Jr. meeting wasn't fine. Either they're both illegal or neither are, and I'm of the mind that neither were.

Holy shit, did you just deflect to Hillary?

Wow.

[SirBeef]

Holy shit, did you just deflect to Hillary?

Wow.

Don't forget, this is the same guy who apologizes for his ways after being trounced over and over again, says he understands, then goes right back to this same shit.

[callipygoustp]

If ever there was proof that a mmo-c poster is, in fact, a heavily biased "Trumpster" it's here in this thread when they defend Trump even after the posted tweet. Bonus points for those who also deflect to Hillary.

[Dacien]

If ever there was proof that a mmo-c poster is, in fact, a heavily biased "Trumpster" it's here in this thread when they defend Trump even after the posted tweet. Bonus points for those who also deflect to Hillary.

Just to clarify, I was giving an audience to my own not-a-lawyer thought process on Section 110.20 of the CFR. Whether Trump Jr. committed a crime or attempted to commit a crime is at the heart of the issue as I'm sure you'll agree, and since we haven't had a legal battle over it yet, I'm giving my opinion. I'm looking at the fact that Hillary, through Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS, paid for Russian-sourced dirt on Trump and it wasn't any kind of crime, and saying, "I don't see then how Trump Jr. meeting with a Russain source over dirt on Hillary would be a crime."

Completely separate, mind you, over Trump and his son dodging and dancing on the issue. That part obviously indicates worry, and as I've said in the past, the closest we've ever come to something resembling "criminal collusion" (a shorthand I like to use for the plethora of possible illegal activity regarding the election) was the meeting at Trump Tower.

[callipygoustp]

Just to clarify, I was giving an audience to my own not-a-lawyer thought process on Section 110.20 of the CFR. Whether Trump Jr. committed a crime or attempted to commit a crime is at the heart of the issue as I'm sure you'll agree, and since we haven't had a legal battle over it yet, I'm giving my opinion. I'm looking at the fact that Hillary, through Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS, paid for Russian-sourced dirt on Trump and it wasn't any kind of crime, and saying, "I don't see then how Trump Jr. meeting with a Russain source over dirt on Hillary would be a crime."

Completely separate, mind you, over Trump and his son dodging and dancing on the issue. That part obviously indicates worry, and as I've said in the past, the closest we've ever come to something resembling "criminal collusion" (a shorthand I like to use for the plethora of possible illegal activity regarding the election) was the meeting at Trump Tower.

Sure, sure. True colors and all that. Deflections are innocuous.

[Jtbrig7390]

Just to clarify, I was giving an audience to my own not-a-lawyer thought process on Section 110.20 of the CFR. Whether Trump Jr. committed a crime or attempted to commit a crime is at the heart of the issue as I'm sure you'll agree, and since we haven't had a legal battle over it yet, I'm giving my opinion. I'm looking at the fact that Hillary, through Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS, paid for Russian-sourced dirt on Trump and it wasn't any kind of crime, and saying, "I don't see then how Trump Jr. meeting with a Russain source over dirt on Hillary would be a crime."

Completely separate, mind you, over Trump and his son dodging and dancing on the issue. That part obviously indicates worry, and as I've said in the past, the closest we've ever come to something resembling "criminal collusion" (a shorthand I like to use for the plethora of possible illegal activity regarding the election) was the meeting at Trump Tower.

Are you able to make one counter argument without going but Hillary and deflecting?

[Marcellus1986]

Just to clarify, I was giving an audience to my own not-a-lawyer thought process on Section 110.20 of the CFR. Whether Trump Jr. committed a crime or attempted to commit a crime is at the heart of the issue as I'm sure you'll agree, and since we haven't had a legal battle over it yet, I'm giving my opinion. I'm looking at the fact that Hillary, through Perkins Coie and Fusion GPS, paid for Russian-sourced dirt on Trump and it wasn't any kind of crime, and saying, "I don't see then how Trump Jr. meeting with a Russain source over dirt on Hillary would be a crime."

Completely separate, mind you, over Trump and his son dodging and dancing on the issue. That part obviously indicates worry, and as I've said in the past, the closest we've ever come to something resembling "criminal collusion" (a shorthand I like to use for the plethora of possible illegal activity regarding the election) was the meeting at Trump Tower.

Hillary didn’t pay for shit. Stop making up bullshit and peddling lies to put “substance” in your arguments.

[Dacien]

Hillary didn’t pay for shit. Stop making up bullshit and peddling lies to put “substance” in your arguments.

The DNC and the Hillary campaign hired the law firm Perkins Coie, who in turn hired Fusion GPS. This is where Christopher Steele came into employ and conducted human intelligence gathering for what would become the Steele dossier.

[Marcellus1986]

The DNC and the Hillary campaign hired the law firm Perkins Coie, who in turn hired Fusion GPS. This is where Christopher Steele came into employ and conducted human intelligence gathering for what would become the Steele dossier.

Like I said, Hillary didn’t pay for shit.

[Orange Joe]

The DNC and the Hillary campaign hired the law firm Perkins Coie, who in turn hired Fusion GPS. This is where Christopher Steele came into employ and conducted human intelligence gathering for what would become the Steele dossier.

It's amazing how you distance Trump from something if he isn't personally involved, but when it's Hilary it's her fault if anyone she knows is involved.

[xChurch]

This really turned into a Hillary thread fast. You know what though, say what you will about her, at least she isn't dumb enough to incriminate herself on Twitter. People have to really dig to come up with stuff to smear her, Trump just straight up gives that dirt to people.

[Dacien]

This really turned into a Hillary thread fast. You know what though, say what you will about her, at least she isn't dumb enough to incriminate herself on Twitter. People have to really dig to come up with stuff to smear her, Trump just straight up gives that dirt to people.

Yeah and I apologize for that. I simply wanted to give my thought process into whether there was a 110.20 CFR violation by Trump Jr. in meeting with Velesnitskaya, and the Steele dossier immediately comes to mind as a precedent, something comparable.

Until there is a legal battle over whether information is included in that federal regulation, all we have is to posit our own guesses, and our own rationale.

[xChurch]

Yeah and I apologize for that. I simply wanted to give my thought process into whether there was a 110.20 CFR violation by Trump Jr. in meeting with Velesnitskaya, and the Steele dossier immediately comes to mind as a precedent as something comparable.

Until there is a legal battle over whether information is included in that federal regulation, all we have is to posit our own guesses, and our own rationale.

The thing is, no one really cares about colluding to lose. I agree it can be dumb and really if Hillary did anything truly illegal she should be held accountable for it. At the end of the day though trying to bring it up now is going to fall on deaf ears since even if she did collude or whatever, it sure as hell didn't do any good.

[Dacien]

The thing is, no one really cares about colluding to lose. I agree it can be dumb and really if Hillary did anything truly illegal she should be held accountable for it. At the end of the day though trying to bring it up now is going to fall on deaf ears since even if she did collude or whatever, it sure as hell didn't do any good.

I'm not bringing it up to try and skewer Hillary, I'm bringing it up because it's comparable to what Trump Jr. did, and since it wasn't illegal what Hillary did, I'm led to believe that what Trump Jr. did wasn't illegal either.

And that's whether or not information was exchanged. The only caveat I would offer is if the information was illegally obtained and not publicly available. For example, if Veselnitskaya had been offering stolen emails hacked from the DNC and Trump Jr. had said, "I love it," this would be a much different conversation.

[Ripster42]

As I pointed out in the post you quoted, it's clear that Trump Jr. was told it was "Russian government" information. My only point of contention was that I don't subscribe to the characterization that Veselnitskaya had any meaningfully deep ties or back channels to the Russian government. I'm aware of reports that she passed along some info to a Kremlin-connected individual at one point, but I think the bulk of what she did was legal work, for example a two-year long case with Glenn Simpson.

A small point, I admit, but that was my point.


But let's get to your contention that it was a serious crime. It's been beaten to death, so I'll cut right to it: "Thing of value" is the operative phrase that people are pointing to to declare illegality, and it's debated whether information falls under the pertinent CFR.

Do I demand he resign? If it's found that his campaign committed illegal acts to influence the election took place, sure. In my not-a-lawyer mind? I don't see how Hillary hiring intermediaries to contact Russian officials to dig up dirt on an opposing candidate is just fine yet the Trump Jr. meeting wasn't fine. Either they're both illegal or neither are, and I'm of the mind that neither were.

I'm confused why you're even challenging whether or not veselnitskaya was associated with the russian govt. Like, why bother? She wasn't the only russian at the meeting.

As for the bolded, I'm not surprised you don't understand how making investigations blind absolves guilt, because the ability to leverage for influence doesn't exist. You still support trump even though he hasn't put his business interests in a blind trust. It's clear you don't understand the ethics of political influence.

[Jtbrig7390]

The DNC and the Hillary campaign hired the law firm Perkins Coie, who in turn hired Fusion GPS. This is where Christopher Steele came into employ and conducted human intelligence gathering for what would become the Steele dossier.

We should impeach Shadow President Hillary asap then, But until then lets not deflect to her and deal with the Orange Idiot in Chief.

[Dacien]

I'm confused why you're even challenging whether or not veselnitskaya was associated with the russian govt. Like, why bother? She wasn't the only russian at the meeting.

As for the bolded, I'm not surprised you don't understand how making investigations blind absolves guilt, because the ability to leverage for influence doesn't exist. You still support trump even though he hasn't put his business interests in a blind trust. It's clear you don't understand the ethics of political influence.

This is a fair point. That by having degrees of separation, there's no possibility for quid pro quo in the information. Fair point.

Legally, does that change it from a non-violation of 110.20 to a violation... I don't know the answer to that. Does it make it a crime in any way at all? Again, I don't know.

[Blur4stuff]

I feel confident that Mueller knows.

Of course, people generally don't spent years lying about something that they honestly thought was perfectly legal.