Too many stuns/CC in BG's

[Deleted]

CC is fine in Legion/BfA.

Remove and shorten stuns

Many stuns already got shortened.

[Deleted]

If counteref the duration and DRs are very manageable, as there designed for team gameplay. So yes 1vX it can seem unfair but thats just an example and if this is from random bg perspective, so, its entirely for fun, there are no rewards (compared to rated etc)

Though, of they changed CC duration even more, some classes or it could happen to everyone would become completely immune and just be swinging/casting away with 100% uptime.

CC and its counterd is a very important part of TEAM based gameplay.

Cant imagine doing Rbgs with everyone just mashing there abilites without the fear of getting locled out of CDs n such.

[Deleted]

With so many characters with some sort of stun or CC, many times you are just stunned until dead. The proliferation of stuns and CC has made pvp almost unbearable. There needs to be some sort of resolve bar that makes you immune to CC after being stunned twice in a row.

Specifically where? Rated Arena? Rated BGs? Skirmish Arena? Random BGs? World Pvp? Duels?

To simply stated "stuns and cc has made pvp almost unbearable" is just a massive sweeping statement that cannot be taken seriously because you have provided no context. For instance cc and stuns seem totally fine in Arena and for the most part are 100% required to land kills at decent rating otherwise damage would have to be even higher than it currently is.

CC and stuns in a random bg is a completely different beast; now i'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that your post is about the latter or perhaps WPvP. As much as i can empathise with the frustration it can cause, the majority of times in this setting the issue is not the 6s stun followed by the 3s dr stun, its the 8-12 enemy players focusing you and killing you through defensive's. Taking away cc for the most part is going to have zero effect on the general outcome of mass pvp if you allow yourself to get into those types of situation and for when you reduce down the scale of opponents that is what the DR system is for.

You cannot take away cc/stuns without directly affecting smaller scale pvp (which is actually what pvp is balanced around i.e 3v3 rated arena), not to mention completely breaking classes that are built around doing damage in those stuns or balanced around having spammable cc.

Lastly BG's are about team play hence why randoms are such a bad metric to even start a pvp mechanics discussion, since 90% of players just do their own thing. So there is probably countless amounts of things you can do with your own play as well as how you interact with your team to counter your complaints instead of crying for nerfs.

[Seshy]

I was venting about random BG's specifically since that is what I do most of the time now before BFA comes out. There really aren't enough Rated PvP groups on my server group. Realistically it's not 8-12 groups of players, it's the groups of 2-5 that get you. If you run into a group of 8-12 ppl then ya you're not playing smart enough. I enjoy large team gameplay on open fields of battle so arenas aren't very fun for me. That's just my personal opinion. I never liked the introduction of arenas in wow as it totally changed the way Blizzard balanced classes. Random bg's would be better if blizzard actually had some sort of team balance but its not going to happen so I take it as it comes. It would be nice if they instituted a resolve system specifically for BG's so that arena's would remain the same for those who enjoy them.

[heinz0r]

There is normally not much of an issue with cc, it is always about the damage being too high or low and how many ppl you expect to survive against in your own narcist way. We are all guilty of this btw, since most ppl have a way higher oppinion of how much ppl they are prepared to take on, then what the truth really has in store for them

[Deleted]

this makes me lol.... you guys havent played pvp in mop i guess?

[Nihilan]

There just isnt enough opportunity cost for CC. Controlling or shutting down an enemy player should require at least 75% of the controlling player's resources/time/actions, etc. You should be able to dps, or control, or heal, or turtle, or run, but you should never be able to efficiently and effectively do more than one of those things at a time within a short opportunity window.

Unfortunately, Blizzard insists, and will always insist on "balancing" around a slice of pvp that the majority of the pvping population does not care to participate in.

[Metallourlante]

I was venting about random BG's specifically since that is what I do most of the time now before BFA comes out. There really aren't enough Rated PvP groups on my server group. Realistically it's not 8-12 groups of players, it's the groups of 2-5 that get you. If you run into a group of 8-12 ppl then ya you're not playing smart enough. I enjoy large team gameplay on open fields of battle so arenas aren't very fun for me. That's just my personal opinion. I never liked the introduction of arenas in wow as it totally changed the way Blizzard balanced classes. Random bg's would be better if blizzard actually had some sort of team balance but its not going to happen so I take it as it comes. It would be nice if they instituted a resolve system specifically for BG's so that arena's would remain the same for those who enjoy them.

Random bgs can often be utterly frustrating, wanna know what I do most of the time since I'm a huge fan of battlegrounds? When I don't do rated bgs I just find or create a 5 man premade group and join the queue, I don't like 40 man bgs so maybe that counts but even 5 people who know what to do, stick together and help each other with objectives work wonder. I would never go on a random bg on my own, I had my fair share but never again. too much rage and frustration, it has nothing to do about skills there most of the time, I bet most of the group of 2-5 people that get you are dudes in premade, it's just so much better when you try that you'll never come back join solo.

[Prode]

CC is fine in Legion/BfA.



Many stuns already got shortened.

How many is that many, 2? Meanwhile increased garrote to 6s. There is hardly anything fine about legion or bfa regarding pvp, especially the ~1% of players who play pvp isn't even close fine

[Lochton]

With so many characters with some sort of stun or CC, many times you are just stunned until dead. The proliferation of stuns and CC has made pvp almost unbearable. There needs to be some sort of resolve bar that makes you immune to CC after being stunned twice in a row.

Man, I wish you were right. When I join for a BG, I see so many chances it could be used yet not everyone knows about these magical abilities.

[Thelxi]

I would prefere stuns to break after dealing X amount of damage or % health. for example: 25% orso.

I like that idea. 25% is too little, but if say half your healthbar disappears in under a second it would be nice if that broke you out of stuns. It would be extremely rare in arena but it would immensely improve quality of life in BGs.

[Otaka]

Need immense amount of CC to kill anything with low dmg and aggravates the thread's complaint

not at all... just need less healing.
in general pvp needs less numbers, healers are like gods now and thats why dps needs more damage and thats why people need more CC.
Its not rocket science to notice this...

Gameplay needs to focus more on consistency and less on bursts... the less burst dmg/heal there is, the less CC we need and thus CC becomes more valuable and we can have less such abilities. Its not good for the game if every class has an interrupt and other CC-ability... its what they are trying to fix with pruning and class identity emphasis.

This is how it goes... too much dmg burst = blizzard buffs healers = too much heal burst = blizzard buffs cc = too much cc = blizzard buffs all numbers to make cc matter more.
And now we are here. or were... cant talk about BfA yet since its not even fully released.

But its been the same since cataclysm... healers are gods, ive played one and its night and day how much easier and powerful you feel in random bgs as one compared to dps.
As dps its a bigger deal if you dont have the best gear or ilevel for pvp (its a dice roll to fight other dps, if they have better gear or just better class/skill they win, and that will be the same throughout the match)... but as healer? heck casually with similar gear i was still being a god and heal people and singlehandedly make the team win fights because i can heal people to full hp in seconds. (same story in every expansion so far.... ive tried pvp in all of them and healing just ends up always being the godmode... the team with most healers wins its not even funny. If one role can make such a big difference then they are broken... healers cant do any dps so it shouldnt be that onesided... but clearly it doesnt matter)

[Deleted]

How many is that many, 2? Meanwhile increased garrote to 6s. There is hardly anything fine about legion or bfa regarding pvp, especially the ~1% of players who play pvp isn't even close fine

Most if not all AoE stuns got nerfed significantly. (EDIT: Apparently, some numbers provided here a incorrect. My bad.)

DH: Chaos Nova 5 sec -> 3 sec
Wl: Shadowfury 4sec -> 3 sec
Sha: Capacitor Totem 5 sec -> 3 sec // Earth Elemental 4 sec Stun (talent) -> removed
Wa: Shockwave 3 sec -> 2 sec + removed from arms/fury
DK: Remorseless Winter 4 sec (talent) -> removed
Hu: Binding Shot 5 sec (talent) -> now a 5 sec root
Mo: Leg Sweep 5 sec -> 3 sec // Fists of Fury 4 sec (pvp-talent) -> removed

There are probably more, but I have proven my point. All of these changes occured during Legion or in BfA prepatch. Conclusion: Stop your sassy shit-talking.

[Dejiko]

Been hoping they implement a system similar to what SWTOR had, every CC effect, regardless of it`s classification contributes to
your character becoming CC immune for a short period of time if exposed to them frequently.
Not really opposed to CC, infact it`s important and can often turn the tide in your favor but at the same time too much of it
makes for a poor PvP experience since control is taken away from you and you feel cheated out of any way of outplaying your opponents.

On a more general note, i`d like for them to up the steady damage of classes but lower burst damage, being hit should be dangerous for you but at the same time
it feels awful dying in stuns when you can`t fight back.

[RelaZ]

It's so painfully obvious 90% of the people posting in this thread are hardcore PvErs who are only doing some PvP now that everything is on farm and it's prepatch. Normally you wouldn't do a BG more than maybe once a year, and you were the first to complain that you had to PvP for your legendary in MoP.

Stop asking for more pruning. Stop destroying the game.

No, there aren't too many CCs/stuns. Blizzard have already pruned it to death throughout WoD, Legion and now BfA. We don't need more of it. In fact, we need more CC, unpruning.

PvP can't be balanced around random content. It would be the equivalent of PvE being designed around LFG Heroics or LFR. Nor can or should it be designed around what some PvErs who barely PvP think is good PvP design.

This is mmo-champion in a fucking nutshell.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, Blizzard insists, and will always insist on "balancing" around a slice of pvp that the majority of the pvping population does not care to participate in.

So by that same logic, you also think Mythic raiding content should be balanced around LFR/Normal(LFR+)?

Anyone who knows the PvP side of the game to a decent degree knows fine well that random bgs will always be a shit show of plebs running around un-coordinated and randomly doing their own thing. Adding or removing stuns/cc from that environment is not going to change anything for the majority of the people in here complaining other than less stuns now means you can back peddle away from the 5-6 people you decided to rush into and still die.

[Prode]

Most if not all AoE stuns got nerfed significantly.

DH: Chaos Nova 5 sec -> 3 sec
Wl: Shadowfury 4sec -> 3 sec
Sha: Capacitor Totem 5 sec -> 3 sec // Earth Elemental 4 sec Stun (talent) -> removed
Wa: Shockwave 3 sec -> 2 sec + removed from arms/fury
DK: Remorseless Winter 4 sec (talent) -> removed
Hu: Binding Shot 5 sec (talent) -> now a 5 sec root
Mo: Leg Sweep 5 sec -> 3 sec // Fists of Fury 4 sec (pvp-talent) -> removed

There are probably more, but I have proven my point. All of these changes occured during Legion or in BfA prepatch. Conclusion: Stop your sassy shit-talking.

DH: Chaos Nova 5 sec -> 3 sec
Fel eruption 2 sec -> 4 sec stun, Chaos Nova isn't 3 sec haha, maybe tooltip says but it's 5 sec

Wl: Shadowfury 4sec -> 3 sec
It isn't roflmao what's more baseline bfa

Sha: Capacitor Totem 5 sec -> 3 sec // Earth Elemental 4 sec Stun (talent) -> removed
They got another 2 sec aoe incapacitate Sundering and it does good dmg too

Wa: Shockwave 3 sec -> 2 sec + removed from arms/fury
Only Prot warrior has shockwave and it's baseline bfa, they can get Stormbolt too

DK: Remorseless Winter 4 sec (talent) -> removed
Got Asphyxiate 20y instant stun often much better

Hu: Binding Shot 5 sec (talent) -> now a 5 sec root
BM, surv has 5 sec intimidation stun, MM can get 4 sec silence, scatter shot bfa and all have trap, interrupt

Mo: Leg Sweep 5 sec -> 3 sec // Fists of Fury 4 sec (pvp-talent) -> removed
Didn't reduce Leg sweep either, still 5 sec and MW has paralysis, stun and 6 sec disarm loads of cc bfa, can use any when interrupted too

- - - Updated - - -

not at all... just need less healing.
in general pvp needs less numbers, healers are like gods now and thats why dps needs more damage and thats why people need more CC.
Its not rocket science to notice this...

Gameplay needs to focus more on consistency and less on bursts... the less burst dmg/heal there is, the less CC we need and thus CC becomes more valuable and we can have less such abilities. Its not good for the game if every class has an interrupt and other CC-ability... its what they are trying to fix with pruning and class identity emphasis.

Agree with a lot except that isn't feasible. I mean basically that requires very good sustained dmg and healing, but atm vast majority of sustained r just miserable, pathetic 1k ticks etc on 150k hp. To increase that, you have to increase all dmg and healing -big time- but Blizzard won't do that that's it. Agree that they should but they won't, definitely won't

[Deleted]

there's less stuns, it's a trick of the mind. you're dying faster than you're used to because damage is a total mess right now, so it just seems like a much higher percentage of your time is spent in stuns.

[Deleted]

DH: Chaos Nova 5 sec -> 3 sec
Fel eruption 2 sec -> 4 sec stun, Chaos Nova isn't 3 sec haha, maybe tooltip says but it's 5 sec

Wl: Shadowfury 4sec -> 3 sec
It isn't roflmao what's more baseline bfa

Sha: Capacitor Totem 5 sec -> 3 sec // Earth Elemental 4 sec Stun (talent) -> removed
They got another 2 sec aoe incapacitate Sundering and it does good dmg too

Wa: Shockwave 3 sec -> 2 sec + removed from arms/fury
Only Prot warrior has shockwave and it's baseline bfa, they can get Stormbolt too

DK: Remorseless Winter 4 sec (talent) -> removed
Got Asphyxiate 20y instant stun often much better

Hu: Binding Shot 5 sec (talent) -> now a 5 sec root
BM, surv has 5 sec intimidation stun, MM can get 4 sec silence, scatter shot bfa and all have trap, interrupt

Mo: Leg Sweep 5 sec -> 3 sec // Fists of Fury 4 sec (pvp-talent) -> removed
Didn't reduce Leg sweep either, still 5 sec and MW has paralysis, stun and 6 sec disarm loads of cc bfa, can use any when interrupted too

Yes, some specs got additional CC (to compensate for lost CC?).

And you are right in regards to the stun durations (shadowfury, leg sweep etc.). I only found out after testing them myself a few minutes ago. Actually, some stun durations are different in PvE/PvP now. For example, Chaos Nova stuns for 5 sec in PvP, but for 2 sec in PvE. While Capacitor Totem always stuns for 3 sec.

Dafuq...

[Magnata]

imagine be playing as a caster dps or healer, every class can stun or interrupt your casts