If Jaina didnt appear in her magic ship

[Aydinx2]

All the Alliance leaders would be dead by the trap Sylvanas set up
Jaina saved the Alliance from losing the war right there, why does no one talk about it?

No they wouldn't?
Anduin and the other leaders were safe outside, out of range of the plague.
Did you even watch the cinematic?

The only reason they got into that throne-room was because Jaina cleared the first plague-wave and broke the walls. So if Jaina didn't appear, the leaders would have never entered Sylvanas' trap and would be alive still.

[plz delete account]

Gamon would make a better commander than alliance leadership

the memes never die!
GAMON WILL SAVE US

[Goldielocks]

Turalyon is less likely because he doesn’t hate the Horde as much as Jaina does. Still, Jaina has become too powerful. She’s going to end up like Thrall pretty soon.

[ro9ue]

I let most of those things slide because we're talking about a universe with magic in it.

However, I'd like to see a bit of a cost to using magic in the world. Like you can cast spells, but it takes a toll on you. And you have to sacrifice your life in some cases to do something as insane as she just pulled off.

[Magical Mudcrab]

All the Alliance leaders would be dead by the trap Sylvanas set up
Jaina saved the Alliance from losing the war right there, why does no one talk about it?

And if Sylvanas didn't have her do-over Val'kyr, she would have died to one level-20-undead-boi level-60-undead-boi. What's your point?

[Life-Binder]

And if Sylvanas didn't have her do-over Val'kyr, she would have died to one level-20-undead-boi. What's your point?

BfA Sylvanas > Cata Sylvanas

[Niroshi]

Gamon would make a better commander than alliance leadership

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the CE story says you are wrong


the did just fine alone

Not really. The CE story doesn't give any indication on how Sylvanas and Malfurion were until Saurfang intervened. We see in-game she was near death and he was fine, and we know historically that he vastly overpowers her.

Plus Tyrande wasn't far behind that whole thing anyhow. If Saurfang had not intervened Sylvanas was beyond dead.

[Bathory]

I thought it was pretty silly, but it's completely plausible. She's one of the strongest mages on Azeroth, using her arcane + frost magic is on full display here. If the Dalaran magi can port a city, the leader of the Kirin Tor should absolutely be able to manipulate a Galleon.

Also, Sylvanas wouldn't have killed the alliance leaders since they'd still be held at bay with the initial blight. She would have ended the battle for Lordaeron, that's for sure.

[FriendOrTraitor]

That and if Sylvanas didn't show up with her "magical" trebuchets (because real in-lore & in-game trebuchets can't fire such distances), then Teldrassil wouldn't burn and she would've lost the war. You can put many more "ifs" to this list.

A Good War, I believe, explained that the mages enchanted the trebuchets and the shamans stoked the fires.

[Raetary]

How is Jaina a Mary Sue?
She's not a new character that is suddenly very powerful, which is the definition of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu type character

the definition of mary sue is an ideal and all perfect fictional character, immediately loved/respected by the majority of people he encounters while he/she excels incredibly at tasks he/she shouldn't be that good at given the amount of training/experience, while having a fuckton of power for whatever reason.


jaina isnt a mary sue.
she made a lot of mistakes in life, a lot of people hate for the things she's done, she's an emotionally broken person and she has tons of combat and arcane experience to back up her skills.

anduin is a classical mary sue/garry stue.
everyone loves him, for some reason he's an amazing swordsman and king while being a bookworm most of his life with next to no combat experience, nearly perfect on all fronts.
he even has a spidey sense for fucks sake.

[CardiB]

The plot armor on anduin is as thick as a brick baby... Long live sylvanas, the horde are a joke, she's got another patch tops, before the scramble for a new "warchief" begins, who knew the horde could be such babies about a tree, and a stupid ruin of a city.

[Danvash]

I let most of those things slide because we're talking about a universe with magic in it.

However, I'd like to see a bit of a cost to using magic in the world. Like you can cast spells, but it takes a toll on you. And you have to sacrifice your life in some cases to do something as insane as she just pulled off.

That is the case in lore. Mages use mana, and it needs to be refreshed before casting more spells. Jaina is in her 40s and has been training her entire life to pull off spells like this, so it looks like a non-issue for her.

[Magical Mudcrab]

BfA Sylvanas > Cata Sylvanas

Oh yeah, you're right, my bad. Forgot about dungeons scaling now. I'll fix it now.

[Siraeyou]

Old Gods don't mess with arcane magic tho

Look you aren't going to change the minds of anybody who has the idea that Jaina is a puppet of the Old Gods.

And as far as convenient timing saving people or an event, some of the most lauded publications to date are full of other such occurrences. Not that I am trying to defend Blizzard writing staff because there is definitely room for them to improve. I'm just pointing out that people are particularly prone to hate on certain things just because it is Blizzard doing it.

[God Save The King]

But the canotation, (Which apparently is a word so often unused Chrome doesn't fucking recognize it)

Connotation is what you're looking for :P

[ro9ue]

That is the case in lore. Mages use mana, and it needs to be refreshed before casting more spells. Jaina is in her 40s and has been training her entire life to pull off spells like this, so it looks like a non-issue for her.

Mana is a good game mechanic, but it really hasn't been developed well in the story. We don't see mages and spellcasters taking breaks after casting major spells. i think if they did that, we'd collectively be more okay with some of these actions.

[Puxpux]

And if it wasn't for Saurfang ridiculous appearing out of nowhere in the middle of Darkshore just in the right moment to save her Sylvannas would be dead now.

Same logic doesnt apply when it doesnt fit you, remember that lol (this is Sarcasm btw)

[plz delete account]

Connotation is what you're looking for :P

Yes, thank you

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Jaina has always been a sorta Mary Sue-ish character back since Warcraft 3. Sure she wasn't the ultra powerful mage but she was the character that was always right in the human campaign and tried to save Arthas a bunch, got the orcs and night elves to work together with her to save the World Tree and never really faced any set backs. Then in WoW she's just been getting stronger and stronger with no real repercussions to herself. Heck Theramore and threatening racial cleansing on Dalaran didn't even impact her negatively. She got motivated to kill Garrosh because of the former and was individually powered up by raiding the Thunder King and the latter got her slap on the wrist at most. Not to mention how she was on the Broken Shore and then just noped out of existence in Legion right before the Tomb of Sargeras fight screwing over both the Horde and Alliance. Tbh Anduin should be equally pissed and relieved at her appearance.

Uh, Theramore affected her greatly mentally, and she's had a LOT of mistakes.

[oathy]

The plot armor on anduin is as thick as a brick baby... Long live sylvanas, the horde are a joke, she's got another patch tops, before the scramble for a new "warchief" begins, who knew the horde could be such babies about a tree, and a stupid ruin of a city.

they might shock us all and she just stands down
that would avoid the Garrosh scenario. But didn't Xal'atath predict her death?
Know at the time people thought it could mean something else. But the more that unfolds.
it seems blizzard have been dropping hints for quite a while

[Pandragon]

All the Alliance leaders would be dead by the trap Sylvanas set up
Jaina saved the Alliance from losing the war right there, why does no one talk about it?

Cause that's wrong. Had Jaina not shown up, the fight would have ended when the plague was first thrown out. They never would have gotten past it, or past the wall that Jaina destroyed, and never would have been in the trap she set.