Changes for WoW, back to the WoTLK questing/leveling style.

[Memefarce]

If you can't relate to the following, just remember; even the "2%" consumers in this world do their part in cycling an economy
Blizzard very clearly realizes this MMO has been thriving since 2007 and is, in it's own, an economy. Like any business, forefront, or behind the scenes decisions based on profit and sustainability must be made.... That being said; the first and most obvious failure for me was gladiator arenas. Blizzard previously announced a tourney realm style, scheduled, moderated, live arena match, where players would enter with their own live characters, using IDENTICAL available gear. If I remember right, this was going to be up at certain times each day, and actively monitored, with a player ladder. WHY did this fall through? I think this was around when resilience was removed, and all PVP/PVE gear equalized when in a PVP instance... But all that did was require PVPers to commit even more time to wow with trying to keep up with PVE content. You were going to give us a bone, and then took it away.

I tried to come back to play WoW just recently... I love the game. I thought it was going to somehow be better than the last 4 times I've tried to come back... But the same reasons for why I left have been amplified sadly and looks almost the same for BFA. Legendary random farm(Required items with a ludicrous amount of time required to get the right combos). Artifact weapon farm; amazing idea, infinite farm time sink, just to be removed. Questing: this is ridiculous, it's worst than questing required in MoP... There are those of us who simply hate quests. We should be able to enjoy the game with doing a MINIMAL amount of questing required for storylines and such, and no more. It's almost like Blizzard is desperately forcing everyone to be involved and playing for longer to get anything done. Remember when WoW was at 10million+ subs in the glory days mid burning crusade through WoTLK? That's because people loved the game, and everything was being done right to improve it... But only so many improvements can be made before they are perceived as change, instead of upgrade, and change is usually not welcomed, even if it is for the better.

Blizzard needs to give hardcore casuals a way to enjoy this game again.. If not in PVE, at least for PVP. I used to be super competitive. Now, being competitive is synonymous with the amount of time spent. Look at overwatch, LoL, any FPS. When CoD black ops drops, you will lose all of your hardcore casuals temporarily, if not permanently... Simply because they can log on, and have rewarding skill based game-play instantly, and log off when they want to. To be honest, the most fun I've had since coming back is tuning my PVE gear on alts and mains with third party apps/sites, and that is truly sad.

[Relapses]

WoW doesn't exist to fulfill whatever esoteric version of the game you prefer. The game changed to adapt to the demographic it currently exists to please. If that's not you (protip: it isn't), tough shit. Find another game to play instead of asking for the devs to please every person who's ever played WoW in their lives.

[Unforgivenn]

wow isnt a mmo anymore, even when someone make a addon to people play grouped, blizzard destroy it..

idk why blizzard didnt allow us to solo actual content raid, its a single player now anyway..

[Deleted]

Blizzard needs to give hardcore casuals a way to enjoy this game again.. If not in PVE, at least for PVP. I used to be super competitive.

Troll post, imagine thinking you had the right to be competitive if you don't even put in time to practice, learn the meta or develop your game knowledge, lazy people like you deserve to get stomped at the bottom of the ladder.

[nzcorona]

hardcore casuals

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Deleted]

Tough Guy IRL as well, I'd guess?

Casual who wants rewards for no effort IRL as well, I'd guess?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

wow isnt a mmo anymore, even when someone make a addon to people play grouped, blizzard destroy it..

idk why blizzard didnt allow us to solo actual content raid, its a single player now anyway..

So what’s stopping you from grouping without an add on? You being lazy doesn’t make wow a single player game.

[Relapses]

Tough Guy IRL as well, I'd guess?

I'm willing to bet they've begun an argument with the word "ACKCHYUALLY" non-ironically at least once in their lives.

[alexchaos]

So I guess me and most of my guild could be classified as "hardcore casuals" - we've been raiding together since Vanilla (well EQ) with a goal of clearing the hardest raid content "in time". So reasonably competitive - but not going for that top 1-50 bracket (in fact, we were considerably worse than that - 300-400). This has worked fine, event though it was made much harder with the introduction of Mythic and maintenance of 20-man rosters on servers with dwindling pops.

The straw that broke us was Legion and the time investment required to "stay competitive" - not necessarily as a guild, but as individual players. The randomness and the grinds and the constant "need" to be logged in every night killed it - attrition set in and everyone quit the game.

WoD, in many ways, catered directly to me and my guild. We just liked to raid (hard content) and log and go play something else when done. No silly grinds, no huge requirements, just some fluff story and that's it. It even had a huge PvP zone for that "just for lolz" type of play in the off evenings. It was good and didn't get in your face every evening requiring "more AP" or "more legoes"

It was quite good imho, but the public opinion is that it's the worst possible expac ever. On the other hand people seem to love Legion.
I've come to realise that what I want, is probably not what most people want and it wouldn't make any sense for Blizzard to repeat WoD just to cater to me - and they won't. If anything they'll run fast to the opposite direction (and they seem to be going that way with BfA).

I feel like this the reason some (maybe many) players didn't like Legion. WoW has always been a "login and play with friends casually" kind of game for me. Tho my main guild died back in MoP, we would raid 2-3 times a week and get pretty far in progression, clearing most of the harder content available before next tiers and this while taking our time and being able to play together for funsies after/before raids.

Now in Legion when I wasn't raiding, everyone was doing their M+ for the weekly chest and wouldn't log back until next raid hours because the rest of the content was tedious. No one would do PVP because it sucked the entire xpac and blizz didn't fucking bother to fix it mid xpac. No one liked farming AP so they didn't do it, they would log 20mins to do their emissaries for a chance at a leggo and that's it.

I really hope BFA will be different but I think it won't. People like to do tedious content it seems.

[Deleted]

I'm willing to bet they've begun an argument with the word "ACKCHYUALLY" non-ironically at least once in their lives.

Oh wow another casual joins the fray. Btw nice 1 to = binds as a 10 year veteran. Keep projecting onto anonymous forum posters though

[Relapses]

I really hope BFA will be different but I think it won't. People like to do tedious content it seems.

Things like WQs and the AP grind gave legitimately casual players a way to increase their player power every time they logged in. That's fine in and of itself, imo. The real issue was that in Legion Blizzard pretty much required anybody who wanted to maximize their character to do the same content that casual players enjoyed before they could do the content they actually enjoyed. There are gatekeepers like the dude I quoted before who see this as a good change, but much like Telefono I also had to stop raiding in Legion due to the stupid amounts of useless grinding it required.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wow another casual joins the fray. Btw nice 1 to = binds as a 10 year veteran. Keep projecting onto anonymous forum posters though

I'm left-handed and use the Numpad to game. /shrug

But hey, thanks for watching a VOD from 5 fucking years ago.

[Tyron]

wow isnt a mmo anymore, even when someone make a addon to people play grouped, blizzard destroy it..

idk why blizzard didnt allow us to solo actual content raid, its a single player now anyway..

I don't like that they remove group finding addons but let's be real, there's a higher chance people communicate with each other creating a group for a quest than letting an addon auto-invite and auto-leave a group.

[Deleted]

But hey, thanks for watching a VOD from 5 fucking years ago.

I liked how you added this part as if it changes anything about your terrible excuse, binds and achievements. No problem about the VOD(From 2016), looks like you need all the views you can get. Funny how casuals always cry the loudest. Retired 2017 btw but still post here as if my opinion matters!

[Relapses]

I liked how you added this part as if it changes anything about your terrible excuse, binds and achievements. No problem about the VOD(From 2016), looks like you need all the views you can get. Funny how casuals always cry the loudest. Retired 2017 btw but still post here as if my opinion matters!

Alright dude, since you want to make this a dick measuring contest, where are your achievements? Second, do you think I give a flying fuck about the view count on a twitch account I haven't used since WoD was the current expansion? Really? That's where we're going? Third, go ahead and scope out the Numpad and you'll find that many of the binds I use are almost fucking identical to somebody who used WASD... just, you know, on the other side of the keyboard. I mouse with my left hand. I realize this alone makes me filthy casual scum since I'm unable to use the latest 37-button RAZER contraption; but I've never really pretended to be anything other than a shitty ex-Mythic raider. (Fun fact: If I cared about that I wouldn't have a link to my dead twitch in my signature.) Finally, and most importantly, this is the internet. Nobody's opinion means any more than another's... but people who use any fucking reason they can to either personally attack somebody or invalidate an opinion are the ones who usually need to be ignored.

I digress. If it's any consolation, I'm sorry I implied you were a neckbeard. We cool, bro?

[Deleted]

Third, go ahead and scope out the Numpad and you'll find that many of the binds I use are almost fucking identical to somebody who used WASD... just, you know, on the other side of the keyboard.

I find this difficult to believe as when you bind the Num pad it states 'Num Pad 1' as the bind and not '1' in both the binds menu and the skill icon itself.

but people who use any fucking reason they can to either personally attack somebody or invalidate an opinion are the ones who usually need to be ignored.

Ironic since you made a presumption about me first.

I digress. If it's any consolation, I'm sorry I implied you were a neckbeard. We cool, bro?

Sure. It's better that the thread stays on topic.

Right now it's you who is crying in this thread. The rest of us are trying to have a discussion about the direction of the game. You're trying to disrupt it with edgy comments. If you like the current high-end game, great - good for you, the Skinner box is working I guess, but do try to participate without personal attacks and comments.

Oh so you're saying

Tough Guy IRL as well, I'd guess?

isn't disruptive? I merely stated that casuals should have to put in effort to be rewarded in competitive play whether that means by item rewards or to be personally rewarded by improving in skill.(And if they don't, they should be stomped at the bottom of the ladder) it's not my fault you got personally attacked by that comment.

[Relapses]

Ironic since you made a presumption about me first.



Sure. It's better that the thread stays on topic.



Oh so you saying isn't disruptive? I merely stated that casuals should have to put in effort to be rewarded in competitive play whether that means by item rewards or to be personally rewarded by improving in skill.(And if they don't, they should be stomped at the bottom of the ladder) it's not my fault you got personally attacked by that comment.

Since we're buddies now, I'd like to remind you that referring to people who you deem unworthy of playing the game as "casuals" is a pretty elitist and narrow-minded viewpoint. I'll take you out to lunch later and we can talk it out. Maybe you can show me on the doll where the casual touched you.

[Segus1992]

wow isnt a mmo anymore, even when someone make a addon to people play grouped, blizzard destroy it..

idk why blizzard didnt allow us to solo actual content raid, its a single player now anyway..

Yes because grouping with randoms for 30-45 seconds is group content. Not having an addon do it for you means there'll be more community about it: "LFG Azshara WQs/emissary" just like the people who bitch about WoW not being an MMO wants that shit from Vanilla to return.

[Zaktar]

Is it "casual" to want an element of the game which requires only high skill, low time investment? Not talking about practice, talking about gear/ability grinds intended to keep players paying for their subs.

[Deleted]

Since we're buddies now, I'll take you out to lunch later and we can talk it out. Maybe you can show me on the doll where the casual touched you.

This seems pretty passive aggressive for someone who just apologised.

I'd like to remind you that referring to people who you deem unworthy of playing the game as "casuals" is a pretty elitist and narrow-minded viewpoint.

Thanks for the reminder and stating the obvious, I guess because I want people to put in effort to claim rewards that must make me an elitist. Good job trying to create a narrative though.

Is it "casual" to want an element of the game which requires only high skill, low time investment? Not talking about practice, talking about gear/ability grinds intended to keep players paying for their subs.

This is why templates were good for casual players in PvP, they could still compete and didn't have to invest much time into gearing a character.

[Relapses]

Good job trying to create a narrative though.

Welp, I was having fun but you just evoked the Tumblr card. I'm calling Godwin's Law. This argument is over.

Pack it up, boys! Nothing more to see here.