Can the Alliance plz get one big victory in BfA?

[Malikath]

Well yeah. Because up until Theramore, Garrosh really hadn't shown himself to be the Raging Authoritarian Orc-Nazi that he very rapidly devolved into after that point. Once it became obvious exactly what kind of a shitheel Garrosh actually was, pretty much the entire horde other than his cadre of True Believers dumped him like hotcakes.

lol, no.
he showed what he was in wrath, cata shined him up a bit but he was bad since thrall made him stop being emo in nagrand.
garrosh only lost support when he actually made moves against other horde leaders, and even then only partially as displayed by named NPCs.
garrosh retained the loyalty of the younger orcs right up until we killed them and imprisoned him.
in hindsight we should of killed him and the rest of the horde leadership, varian was a fool.

i always did prefer wrathion's arguments.

[Surfd]

and another whordie who forgot that the garrosh arc started in wrath, he was given the horde by thrall, so no co-opting there, and came to a head in MoP.
this was a 3 expac arc, not a single raid.

did you also forget when garrosh ordered the horde to ambush alliance forces in icecrown? before he ever became warcheif.
try again.

I forget nothing. I know full well Garrosh was "given" the mantle of Warchief by Thrall, because Thrall hoped the responsibility would help temper him into a better person. It unfortunately did not (because that isn't where blizzard wanted the story to go, hense the "co-opting"), and the Horde paid for it. Still does not change the fact that the overall story arc was one of the Horde rejecting a slide back to old ways, which ultimately ended up with Garrosh being defeated partially at the hands of a Horde Insurrection and ultimately dying at the hands of the very person who made him Warchief to begin with.

And what the fuck does the Icecrown thing have to do with anything? Or perhaps you forgot that at the time, the Horde and the Alliance were at WAR, and taking out an enemy force to secure an objective that might give you a tactical or strategic advantage is something that tends to happen during a WAR. Of course, both sides were also fighting the Lich King at the time, and would have been better off co-operating, but hey, WAR and irrational hatreds and all that.

[Chappyzilla]

I don't understand the mentality of they get this well we should get it too. No that's boring story telling and if they listened shows there too scared to take risks. Sylvanas is a military genius with many battles under her belt, its really no surprise that she starts of strong. The alliance was prepped for the horde to attack silithus they were not aware of teldrassil until it was too late and with Lorderon Sylvanas knew she had no chance of holding it so she made sure the alliance couldn't have it either, which tbh was pretty awesome.

[Surfd]

lol, no.
he showed what he was in wrath, cata shined him up a bit but he was bad since thrall made him stop being emo in nagrand.

By that arguement we should expect Jaina to turn into a Raid boss any day now, considering that she has been showing massive signs of instability and genocidal tendencies for several expansions now.

[HeiAggra]

Why ppl dont understand that war is not pretty, it's not about honor, it's about survival and winning.
Sylvannas went to war to ensure the Horde survival and a peace that would last generations.
But Saurfang did not followed the plan by not ending Malfurion and that was why Sylvannas had to burn down Darnassus.

[Blodia]

By that arguement we should expect Jaina to turn into a Raid boss any day now, considering that she has been showing massive signs of instability and genocidal tendencies for several expansions now.

God forbid someone gets mad about a clear cut breach of trust.

[BlakeArt]

I don't understand the mentality of they get this well we should get it too. No that's boring story telling and if they listened shows there too scared to take risks. Sylvanas is a military genius with many battles under her belt, its really no surprise that she starts of strong. The alliance was prepped for the horde to attack silithus they were not aware of teldrassil until it was too late and with Lorderon Sylvanas knew she had no chance of holding it so she made sure the alliance couldn't have it either, which tbh was pretty awesome.

Translation of horde fan : can't understand that the other side would like to have a victory from time to time. After all, Sylvanas is soooo cool, you know, why are you complaining ?

[Leih]

Alliance are the good guys. Haven't you ever read a book or watched a film before?

The good guys always gotta lose a few times in the early parts of the story so that their eventual victory is more satisfying towards the end.

[Deleted]

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[mysticx]

Alliance are the good guys. Haven't you ever read a book or watched a film before?

The good guys always gotta lose a few times in the early parts of the story so that their eventual victory is more satisfying towards the end.

Yeah, just like in Cata... oh wait...

Every time people point at SoO, that was a clean-up job clearing up the Horde's mess, hardly an Alliance "Yay us!"-moment.

[Malikath]

I forget nothing. I know full well Garrosh was "given" the mantle of Warchief by Thrall, because Thrall hoped the responsibility would help temper him into a better person. It unfortunately did not (because that isn't where blizzard wanted the story to go, hense the "co-opting"), and the Horde paid for it. Still does not change the fact that the overall story arc was one of the Horde rejecting a slide back to old ways, which ultimately ended up with Garrosh being defeated partially at the hands of a Horde Insurrection and ultimately dying at the hands of the very person who made him Warchief to begin with.

And what the fuck does the Icecrown thing have to do with anything? Or perhaps you forgot that at the time, the Horde and the Alliance were at WAR, and taking out an enemy force to secure an objective that might give you a tactical or strategic advantage is something that tends to happen during a WAR. Of course, both sides were also fighting the Lich King at the time, and would have been better off co-operating, but hey, WAR and irrational hatreds and all that.

it's shows garrosh's character, how he's willing to do something utterly stupid that backfires horribly for the glory of victory.
also i don't remember the alliance starting any war, varian declared it after the bitch either tried and failed to route both the horde and the alliance or simply lost control over her forces all-together.

[Blodia]

Why ppl dont understand that war is not pretty, it's not about honor, it's about survival and winning.
Sylvannas went to war to ensure the Horde survival and a peace that would last generations.
But Saurfang did not followed the plan by not ending Malfurion and that was why Sylvannas had to burn down Darnassus.

And this is why Alliance doesn't use any of their several gamechanging characters or techs to just tear Horde defenders at Undercity apart and has to rely on Jaina's flying battleship while almost losing the battle. Makes absolutely perfect 100% sense, you always gimp yourself during a strategic battle to make it a better sport.

[BlakeArt]

The good war novella makes it very clear that if the alliance wants to take Orgrimmar or any other Horde city for that matter they can. Stormwind and Ironforge are well beyond the horde's grasp.

Stormwind is so beyond theyr grasp that the BFA intro have the Horde infiltrate the stockade, free Zandalari leaders, set fire to Stormwind and escape without any lost. Yeah, that's some really good story telling. But noooo, no Horde bias, move along.

[Toho]

They are losing because they are not proactive. They are not proactive because they don't need to be in their current position.

The good war novella makes it very clear that if the alliance wants to take Orgrimmar or any other Horde city for that matter they can. Stormwind and Ironforge are well beyond the horde's grasp. This is the horde's own conclusion.

On blizzard's story writing: It is far from perfect, but to write an interesting story where the status quo can't really change sounds extremely challenging. How would you have written the story? Beside all of this we still don't really know how the story is going progress.

They are literally invading the enemy capital.
What are you on about man.

Honestly I refuse to read all these useless novellas and fanfic comic books that try to excuse the shitty writing by the blizzard team.
No I am not reading your 50 page essay on dumb writing decision #31

[Soikona]

You already have your big victory; you don't have to listen to the Sylvanas talk to you all expansion.

Oh god that is a good victory! Went horde a month ago to play with some RL friends and having to listen to how “edgy and cool” she is, is already pissing me off! Thank god for the mute button! Playing with friends and no sound is still better than playing without them.

[Surfd]

God forbid someone gets mad about a clear cut breach of trust.

Funny, the Horde weren't the one who painted a gigantic target on their "neutral" city by using it as a waystation for the Alliance to funnel military strength into the Hordes front yard. But yes, lets pretend that you have the right to be all righteously indignant that turning your city into a military installation strangely enough warrants an appropriately military response.

Breach of trust my ass.

[Ophenia]

Splitting the Horde's unity once again is still a huge victory for this unified Alliance. Especially considering it will end with another Warchief being killed/removed.

... But you want blood, blood and blood because blood iz fun

u burn teldrassil we burn undercity >:-(

[Deleted]

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[Surfd]

it's shows garrosh's character, how he's willing to do something utterly stupid that backfires horribly for the glory of victory.

And? It shows him to be a rash individual who believes in Glory and Battle. Which at the time is still pretty consistent with his original character, who worshiped his Father's image as a heroic warrior but was someone who had never experienced "true" battle and was mostly still getting high off the fumes of stories about glorious battle, and as such is eager to prove himself by any means possible. It literally has no bearing, or even foreshadowing, regarding his crazy character swing into Raging Authoritarian Orc-Nazi that we get in MoP.

also i don't remember the alliance starting any war, varian declared it after the bitch either tried and failed to route both the horde and the alliance or simply lost control over her forces all-together.

Chronological order of things for zones is important. Everything that takes place in icecrown takes place AFTER the events of the Wrathgate, regardless of what order you as a player completed the zones in while questing. And the Horde and Alliance were definitely at an official state of war after Wrathgate, even if that war was instigated by agents of the Legion who had infiltrated the Horde and not by the Horde itself.

"The Bitch" as you so cutely refer to her as did not try and fail to route both sides, no matter what your bizzare headcannon might believe.

[Toho]

I hope so! The alliance can have as many victories as they want for all I care, as long as they stoop to the same level as Sylvanas, getting internal struggles, and need the good parts of the remaining Horde to help them set things straight again. That would put some balance back into it again.

The day the alliance slaughters the horde like the good old days is the day I resub.