So Jaina is more powerful than Thalyssra - for real blizz?

[Strawberry]

Aegwynn with only her power wasn't all that special. And even as Guardian, she was weaker than her son. Or Archimonde.

She fought Sargeras avatar and is considered to be one of the most powerful mages of all time.
Eredar weren't even close to fighting Sargeras. Highborne would get stomped.

[Daws001]

Thalyssra is no doubt highly skilled but that doesn't mean she's a powerhouse. She was a mana starved outcast before we helped her so it's not like she was honing her craft and sharpening her battle prowess. Jaina was.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't necessarily say that, but it strikes me that Elves, in Warcraft lore at least, have a history of using fonts of magical power as a crutch (i.e.: the Well of Eternity, the Sunwell, the Nightwell, etc.) instead of relying on their own inherent abilities.

- - - Updated - - -



Not just that, she was also using the Nightwell to bolster her power.

And we had a raid going for her alone. That's 1 to 20 if we calculate mythic. So... we probably just need 20 horde players to kill Jaina, while we only had a single person scenario.

[Kwento]

She fought Sargeras avatar and is considered to be one of the most powerful mages of all time.
Eredar weren't even close to fighting Sargeras. Highborne would get stomped.

We don’t know that. He sent a drop of his power to face the guardian, we don’t know how would eredar or highborne fair against it in a similar position (after being artificially imbued with guardian powers).

[Magical Mudcrab]

regardless, it's true.

Well, I mean, it's largely BS.

Warrior: Saurfang/Broxxigar (Orcs)
Paladin: Turalyon (Human; had over a 1,000 year lifespan because of weird Twisting Nether BS)
Hunter: Sylvanas (High Elf/Forsaken)
Rogue: Garona (Half-Orc, Half-Draenei)
Priest: Velen (Draenei) [maybe, arguably Anduin]
Death Knight: Arthas (Human)
Shaman: Thrall (Orc)
Mage: Azshara (Night Elf)
Warlock: Gul'dan (Orc)
Druid: Malfurion (Night Elf)
Demon Hunter: Illidan (Night Elf)

- - - Updated - - -

How about experiencing the freaking War of Ancients? You know, the first coming of the Legion?

And they promptly brought up the barrier to ensure they wouldn't have to fight the Legion at the height of the conflict.

[Deleted]

oh dear blizzard..why? and how? Wasn't Thalyssra like second in power to Elisande herself? A 10k year + shal'dorei night elf, with extensive knowledge of the arcane that no one but kaldorei highborne could possibly know. How does Jaina get to be more powerful?

Thalyssra and the horde company meet Jaina in stormwind, and she says.. " we cannot stop her, RUN" - you mean someone of Thalyssra's calibre, surrounded by the Zandalari princess, the darkspear leader, the champion of the horde, and Nathanos - cannot stop Jaina?

I would understand if it was say a person like Mordant Evenshade - leader of the highborne or the Tirisfal Guardian, but Jaina should struggle against someone like Thalyssra - in that scene it was only Jaina, not even back up or support.

The way it should have gone was Thalyssra beating Jaina until Jaina gets some back up then we have to flee.

Yeh, she's human ofc, wanna bet if it was any other alliance race, they would have been put in the ground, it's like humans are godlike in wow.

Jaina is more powerful because of the human potential, any human mage is more powerful then even the aspect of magic, anyone knows that, no?

[baskev]

oh dear blizzard..why? and how? Wasn't Thalyssra like second in power to Elisande herself? A 10k year + shal'dorei night elf, with extensive knowledge of the arcane that no one but kaldorei highborne could possibly know. How does Jaina get to be more powerful?

Thalyssra and the horde company meet Jaina in stormwind, and she says.. " we cannot stop her, RUN" - you mean someone of Thalyssra's calibre, surrounded by the Zandalari princess, the darkspear leader, the champion of the horde, and Nathanos - cannot stop Jaina?

I would understand if it was say a person like Mordant Evenshade - leader of the highborne or the Tirisfal Guardian, but Jaina should struggle against someone like Thalyssra - in that scene it was only Jaina, not even back up or support.

The way it should have gone was Thalyssra beating Jaina until Jaina gets some back up then we have to flee.

Yeh, she's human ofc, wanna bet if it was any other alliance race, they would have been put in the ground, it's like humans are godlike in wow.

hush...give us alliance atleast 1 win this expansion. And lets be real. Jaina is going to die. They are so writing her to die ( or make a other big mistake and die).

Because if we use your logic : blood elves and half the classes should leave the horde because of what sylvannas is doing. ( because like you magic thing it makes sense logic wise).

But hey its wow...
So hush...let us have this ...please.

[Mihalik]

How does this example even apply..? Arcane is arcane, they both use the same spells. The difference is, Jaina is 30 years old and Thalyssra is 10000+ and you have *zero* information on what any Nightborne done in Suramar during that time under the bubble, in fact we know that they practiced absolutely new forms of magics simply to survive.
I do not agree with this, at all. Jaina simply cannot be more experienced, even if she didn’t sleep a single night her entire life, training constantly and from her very birth, it should have been impossible.

You are just being obtuse.

Another parallel would be -Physics is physics, same physics applied both to WW2 Japan and the USA, yet the US built nukes, the ultimate Deus Ex Machina- and Japan didn't.

We know that the use and understanding of Magic in WoW ins't static. Mages of all sides and organizations conduct research and develop new applications and uses, like the Mana Bomb. The Nightborn in isolation might have developed new applications but that doesn't mean they were combat applications or as advanced as developed by the rest of Azeroth.

[Deleted]

Well, I mean, it's largely BS.

Warrior: Saurfang/Broxxigar (Orcs)
Paladin: Turalyon (Human; had over a 1,000 year lifespan because of weird Twisting Nether BS)

even though i'm horde, i consider Varian Wrynn to be stronger then Saurfang, one of the reasons being Saurfang needs a back to dish out blows.
concerning paladins, i would like to mention Uther Lightbringer and Tirion Fordring as possible number one paladin candidates.

[Hyral]

Does she though, because that staff she has isn't the same one and it hasn't been brought up since she threatened Orgrimmar.

Huh? They've gone the extra mile to always make sure they show her with the Staff of Antonidas. The staff got a model change during Wrath or Cata I think but it's always been the Staff of Antonias.

[Deleted]

Why is that surprising? The most powerful mages in the lore are actually humans...

I might be wrong, but isn't Azhara the most powerful spellcaster?

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Thalyssra finding out she was a big fish in a small pond, imo.

[Rexosaurus]

Ugh, there's so much head canon and crazy assumptions in here, mostly with zero material to back it up.

Honestly, Jaina is super powerful because she's a major character that has been active throughout the story since WC3, which she was already strong in. We've seen plenty of build up for her character and power over the years, and now she's being spotlighted in the story for this expansion.

Thalyssra is just a brand new supporting character so far, so it'd be pretty poor story-telling if she just negated Jaina's existence in a story that's supposed to be building her up for something. If you guys have a hard-on for elves being the dopest dope around, then that's cool, but don't expect the story to constantly revolve around that.

Final Thoughts: As much as I dislike Sylvanas, she's powerful for many of the same reasons as Jaina. That's why I wasn't like "da fuq?" when she was able fight on fairly equal terms with Malfurion, who at this point, has pretty much been written into the lore as Treesus Christ.

[steelballfc]

Well, I mean, it's largely BS.

Warrior: Saurfang/Broxxigar (Orcs)
Paladin: Turalyon (Human; had over a 1,000 year lifespan because of weird Twisting Nether BS)
Hunter: Sylvanas (High Elf/Forsaken)
Rogue: Garona (Half-Orc, Half-Draenei)
Priest: Velen (Draenei) [maybe, arguably Anduin]
Death Knight: Arthas (Human)
Shaman: Thrall (Orc)
Mage: Azshara (Night Elf)
Warlock: Gul'dan (Orc)
Druid: Malfurion (Night Elf)
Demon Hunter: Illidan (Night Elf).

do you understand it's about story telling. !?

[Deleted]

oh dear blizzard..why? and how? Wasn't Thalyssra like second in power to Elisande herself? A 10k year + shal'dorei night elf, with extensive knowledge of the arcane that no one but kaldorei highborne could possibly know. How does Jaina get to be more powerful?

Thalyssra and the horde company meet Jaina in stormwind, and she says.. " we cannot stop her, RUN" - you mean someone of Thalyssra's calibre, surrounded by the Zandalari princess, the darkspear leader, the champion of the horde, and Nathanos - cannot stop Jaina?

I would understand if it was say a person like Mordant Evenshade - leader of the highborne or the Tirisfal Guardian, but Jaina should struggle against someone like Thalyssra - in that scene it was only Jaina, not even back up or support.

The way it should have gone was Thalyssra beating Jaina until Jaina gets some back up then we have to flee.

Yeh, she's human ofc, wanna bet if it was any other alliance race, they would have been put in the ground, it's like humans are godlike in wow.

If you gonna judge strength soly on how old they are; then Horde shouldn't be anymore cause Night Elves and Draenei are insane old.

So why play Horde that is so weak, consider they aren't that old? *Using your logic*

Not to mention that Horde walsed in, broke free some trolls and got away, in the heart of Stormwind. Isn't that enough of win for you?

[Deleted]

We already knew about Jaina's raw power and continuous battle experience. But is Thalyssra that trained? She fought 10000 years ago as a normal Highborne mage, as many around here. She got to First Arcanist under a magical dome and like all Nightborne, stagnated. And then she was expelled and became weaker do to arcane hunger.

The Highborne mages are weaker than the Blood Elven mages, that's part of the in-lore game, because their magical studies stagnated. Jaina, on the other hand, has studied with the best mages of the Eastern Kingdoms, with thousands of years more knowledgeable than the Highborne.

[Theoris]

After all this horde-favoring shit we have to go through every xpac... Horde finally gets their ass kicked (or w/e happend that made this snowflake of OP so angry) and they instantly get mad? That's fucking pathetic. Just like horde are.

Oh the irony.

OT:
Could be they didn't want to risk failing the mission by trying to get past Jaina considering they were severely outnumbered in the middle of an Alliance city; whether or not Thalyssra is the more powerful one is irrelevant in that scenario.

[Radaney]

Yes Khadgar and Jaina are probably the most powerful mages atm.

[Haven]

Why? Oh, right, I forgot, Horde is supposed to be allowed to do everything they please and any Alliance is supposed to just sit there and cry.

Did you pay attention that little princess of yours just wiped out a whole fleet like it's nothing? But, sure, that two-faced Nightborne mage "has" to be stronger.

Did Talanji shoot that artillery barrage out of her hat? I thought I noticed a Zandalari fleet, but I could be wrong...

[Kwento]

You are just being obtuse.

Another parallel would be -Physics is physics, same physics applied both to WW2 Japan and the USA, yet the US built nukes, the ultimate Deus Ex Machina- and Japan didn't.

We know that the use and understanding of Magic in WoW ins't static. Mages of all sides and organizations conduct research and develop new applications and uses, like the Mana Bomb. The Nightborn in isolation might have developed new applications but that doesn't mean they were combat applications or as advanced as developed by the rest of Azeroth.

Once again, a horrible example.

And I understand, but it doesn’t mean that they didn’t