Start getting used to Sub, boys.

[Karry]

Loved Legion Sin. Way better than most iterations of the spec. If Combat is gonna be nr.1 then surely Sin is gonna be 2nd unless Sub becomes ridiculous, which I doubt. I really do dislike what they did to sub in Legion. I would play almost any iteration of Sub besides the Legion one. That's just my take on it, I just dont like it. I disilke the "Pirate" shit that they did with Outlaw but it seems they moved a tad bit away from it in BFA which is nice and focused more on making the spec better, while still being hard-headed about keeping Roll the RNG.

[shaunika123]

When I hear that term, I know I'm dealing with a noob, since he's equating a skill that didn't even exist until TBC with a spec. =p

In all seriousness though, the answer is the same as it's always been. Play what you like. Unless someone is in a cutting edge guild pushing for top rankings worldwide, their insistence on playing silly things like Roll the Bones isn't going to hurt things too much.

well back in the day there werent really "specs" in the sense there are now for rogues
since most builds spread out their points.

you didnt call sub rogues sub rogues, you called them hemo, because that's what separated them not that they put slightly more points into one tree over another.
nobody referred to seal fate rogues as "assa" they just called it seal fate

so yeah, everyone called assa rogues mutilate rogues in TBC.

the only rogue archetype that I know was called by its spec from the getgo was combat.

[Firatha]

Loved Legion Sin. Way better than most iterations of the spec. If Combat is gonna be nr.1 then surely Sin is gonna be 2nd unless Sub becomes ridiculous, which I doubt. I really do dislike what they did to sub in Legion. I would play almost any iteration of Sub besides the Legion one. That's just my take on it, I just dont like it. I disilke the "Pirate" shit that they did with Outlaw but it seems they moved a tad bit away from it in BFA which is nice and focused more on making the spec better, while still being hard-headed about keeping Roll the RNG.

Current sims with correct traits show sin-sub-outlaw for preraid then sub-outlaw-sin all within just under 300 dps of each other the only differences really show in muti target

[Deleted]

i do not think there is a SINGLE good rogue out there who thinks sub is going to be the best spec in bfa. the general consensus is that outlaw is gonna be nr1. whaazz said so, pikaboo said so, nahj said so. pretty sure all of them are listing assa as 2nd also. but thanks for your input, OP. i am sure a lot of ppl care what some random crybaby has to say.

I played Outlaw in 5 bgs or something now. I found the damage to be lacking compared to Sub, and also you are way more kiteable than both sub and sin. Also played against Outlaw on my BM hunter, and they're incredibly easy to kite, the lack of shadowstep really shows, and grapling hook is not an equal replacer.

[Karry]

Current sims with correct traits show sin-sub-outlaw for preraid then sub-outlaw-sin all within just under 300 dps of each other the only differences really show in muti target

Interesting. That seems really balanced. So unless something changes in the first minor patch, we gonna be pretty balanced spec wise.

[Firatha]

Interesting. That seems really balanced. So unless something changes in the first minor patch, we gonna be pretty balanced spec wise.

For the most part the major out liers are sins 3 target sustainded which in raid gear with rupture agi trait is almost 27k dps and outlaws add wave burst cleave which is 24k(i think this was ran useing the beastlord fight type in simc) where as their st fot all 3 is 15194 sin to 15719 sub you can browse if you want https://bfa.herodamage.com/rogue/aze...-assassination(I dont think the gear for the t22 raid profiles is mythic like simcs because their numbers are a fair amount higher then whats listed here)

[Deleted]

I played Outlaw in 5 bgs or something now. I found the damage to be lacking compared to Sub, and also you are way more kiteable than both sub and sin. Also played against Outlaw on my BM hunter, and they're incredibly easy to kite, the lack of shadowstep really shows, and grapling hook is not an equal replacer.

oh i did not know your post was grounded on such a crazy high amount of experience and sample size. i guess all the best rogues must be wrong then, thanks for clearing this up.

[Veyne]

Sin as a discount pve/useless spec, and the inc nerfs prove it.

I don't know what game you've been playing, but Assassination has consistently been the top PvE rogue spec for several expansions

[McFuu]

Sub for priority DPS
Ass for sustain
Outlaw for AOE (most likely go to mythic+)

Obviously any class that excels at AOE isn't going to be great for PvP, which leaves ass and sub for pvp.
I honestly feel that ass is strong enough in AOE to really supplant Outlaw for mythic +. Especially if stat priority is similar for ass and sub, since they already share weapon type with outlaw being left out.

[sirethas]

I don't know what game you've been playing, but Assassination has consistently been the top PvE rogue spec for several expansions

I really wonder what expansions are you talking about?
MoP was all about Combat
WoD Highmaul was split between Combat and Sub, same for BrF and HFC (Combat was used for AoE fights and Sub for ST)
Assa was heavily dominant only in Legion in past couple of expnasions, in past 3-4 expansions it always got outscaled by Combat or Subtlely

Not trying to say that he's right about assa being discount spec but it's not true that assa been top PvE rogue spec for several expansions

[Veyne]

I really wonder what expansions are you talking about?
MoP was all about Combat
WoD Highmaul was split between Combat and Sub, same for BrF and HFC (Combat was used for AoE fights and Sub for ST)
Assa was heavily dominant only in Legion in past couple of expnasions, in past 3-4 expansions it always got outscaled by Combat or Subtlely

Not trying to say that he's right about assa being discount spec but it's not true that assa been top PvE rogue spec for several expansions

I'll be the first to admit I didn't actually pay attention to shit in WoD and MoP, but I know Assassination was sweet as hell in Wrath and Legion, and I want to say cataclysm too? I don't remember seeing many non Assassination rogues in Cataclysm, but my cata memory is a little foggy.

[RobertoCarlos]

Cataclysm was one of the most OP times for rogue. Legendary daggers for starters. Crazy self healing

I remember combat and sub being stronger though but its not like assassin was bad either

[shaunika123]

I'll be the first to admit I didn't actually pay attention to shit in WoD and MoP, but I know Assassination was sweet as hell in Wrath and Legion, and I want to say cataclysm too? I don't remember seeing many non Assassination rogues in Cataclysm, but my cata memory is a little foggy.

sub was the technically best performing spec in cata, but it wasnt really popular due to it being high maintenance so people mostly went combat/assa

sub only became popular with the legendary daggers.

[RobertoCarlos]

sub was the technically best performing spec in cata, but it wasnt really popular due to it being high maintenance so people mostly went combat/assa

sub only became popular with the legendary daggers.

Yeah the backstab being behind requirement was a bit of a buzz kill/impossible for fights like Ultraxion

[Whitepaw]

i do not think there is a SINGLE good rogue out there who thinks sub is going to be the best spec in bfa. the general consensus is that outlaw is gonna be nr1. whaazz said so, pikaboo said so, nahj said so. pretty sure all of them are listing assa as 2nd also. but thanks for your input, OP. i am sure a lot of ppl care what some random crybaby has to say.

IIRC, Method released a video praising Subtlety Rogue as the best spec for M+.

[Rewyn]

IIRC, Method released a video praising Subtlety Rogue as the best spec for M+.

Because of incoming tank damage, priority dps is more valuable now then flat aoe. Sub aoe isn't all that bad either with talents, but single target is now pretty key.

[Rhah]

You want to talk about old. Combat Daggers represent.

[Whitepaw]

Because of incoming tank damage, priority dps is more valuable now then flat aoe. Sub aoe isn't all that bad either with talents, but single target is now pretty key.

And that's actually pretty awesome.

But I think they also mentioned that the rogue specs have a lot of defensives, allowing them to focus more on offensive abilities.

[therealstegblob]

Are people still whining about the Assassination nerfs? The ones that barely even hurt DPS or PvP burst?

????

- - - Updated - - -

I don't remember seeing many non Assassination rogues in Cataclysm, but my cata memory is a little foggy.

Sub was fairly popular in Cataclysm. They fucking butchered Combat with bizarre changes and Assassination/Sub only got buffed. Combat performed well but it was such a wonky and fucked up specc to play with the awful Combat Insight shit, not to mention you had to watch Rupture/Slice and Dice and fucking Revealing Strike (yuck).

Sub became the default Rogue specc for the legendaries, though.

[Fiftyonred]

Yes i agree that dont take advice from that guys.. but "sin" is used all the time. I have played rogue for 12+ years now and people still ask if i am sin or sub. When they ask what spec i am, i say "sin" and they understand every time. In trade chat, people who do pvp ask for "sin" rogue for their 2v2 or 3v3. So either you play in singeplayer mode or just deactived your chat

In BC assassination was called "Mutilate", or "Mut" in PvP and PvE, respectively.