Awesome new zones but the leveling is the worst we ever had

[Accendor]

Just because it has been, why does it have to be? Why can't we enjoy the challenge, and then reward of getting more gear and outpacing the content again at max level? Why must we be so unhappy about change.

well, the short answer is: because it is neither fun nor challenging.

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I'd rather they got rid of the scaling. Zones should be x level, the zone you just plowed through shouldn't get harder as you level. That's ridiculous. it completely eliminates the core idea of an rpg.

I agree with that.

[Deleted]

No, it's not the same. You people can't diferentiate the leveling from the max level content. Yes, it's a power reset. Your stats go down in rating and mob hp goes up, that is why stuff feels tougher.

Once you get to lvl120 and gear yourself, you roflstomp the mobs again. That is WoW and it's how it worked since the very first expansion. Not even traits in Legion make a blimp towards it. You felt stronger in Legion or any other expansion? I don't buy that. It felt exactly the same and it's not cause you got a trait that said "10% more damage on your basic skill" that somehow it was stronger than it was intended to be. Those "traits" are right there in BfA, baked into your skill damage. You just didn't have to click a button to get them.

There is no way around it, you will always feel weaker at the end of leveling, that is the point of a power reset.

Now, if you mean, we don't get a progression toy like a new talent to make it all worth it, sure, i agree, it's not a good feeling. But, Legion was no different and until that is acknowledged, i just can't agree with the senseless crying.

I was out questing at 111 on my rogue and see these 119s grinding on stuff that I end up one-shotting for them out of pity. Yeah, the game was always like that right? I mean it's normal for people at endgame level to need help from fresh levellers. We did that every expansion!

facepalm

[burek]

Zones should be x level, the zone you just plowed through shouldn't get harder as you level.

Why does it matter when there is no reason to go back to a zone you just plowed through? (and there never was)

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Sure, fake it till you make it. See if i care.

I was here for every single expansion launch except pandaria. It always meant a reset in power, and it will continue to. Cry some more, because that is objectively entertaining.

Seriously, you're not paying attention to the conversation you're taking place in, Einstein.

No one (other than the more ignorant people insisting on talking about something else) is talking about that. They're talking about how you're getting weaker AS YOU FUCKING LEVEL. Not about how you don't get upgrades until level 117 or whatever because your old gear was awesome and its a new expansion. But because fighting Mob #831 in Random Zone #207 is -- and do try to pay attention here -- more difficult at level 117 than it was at 111 DESPITE being six levels higher and with better gear.

It was never like that in MoP and earlier. No matter how much you want to lie to yourself that it was. When you were level 79 in WotLK, you could go back to the Borean Tundra and obliterate the mobs there that you had difficulty with at 70. When you were level 52 in Vanilla, you could go back to Elwynn Forest and everything would spontaneously combust if you just looked at it sideways. When you were level 68 in TBC, you could go back to Hellfire Penninsula and have an easy time blowing up most of the non-endgame mobs (and even against them, like the Fel Reaver, you still had a better than than you did back at 60). etc.

Why can't you get that through your skull? That's what people in this thread are talking about.

Jesus Christ.

[smokii]

I must say I really like the new zones. Quest are well made, graphic design, music and atmosphere are awesome. Everything should be cool but to me the leveling never felt worse and I started playing in beta.
The problem is that my character gets weaker every level. The enemies scale with me, so nothing changes except that I am losing things (e.g. old trinket proccs and legendary effects) and that my % for anything like crit etc. goes down.
Leveling should feel rewarding but this time it feels punishing. I think instead of leveling this time they should have simply used achievements to track to progress or something similar, so that is at least does not feel as punishing as it does now,

isn't this exactly the point of expansions? to reset the power level of players and restart the gear grind anew.

the only reason you feel weaker is because you're going from high-end raid gear down to quest gear, whilst the power level of the mobs remains the same. (the level they are doesn't matter as relative power levels would change as you progressed through zones in an expansion anyway).

this has always been the way blizz have done it to ensure that players new to the game, or who missed the previous expansion, can level through the previous expansion and into the new expansion without having to do the raid content. their power level will remain consistent, whereas yours has dropped due gear replacement as you level.

honestly, this is one of those cry more situations. it'll never change.

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Seriously, you're not paying attention to the conversation you're taking place in, Einstein.

No one (other than the more ignorant people insisting on talking about something else) is talking about that. They're talking about how you're getting weaker AS YOU FUCKING LEVEL. Not about how you don't get upgrades until level 117 or whatever because your old gear was awesome and its a new expansion. But because fighting Mob #831 in Random Zone #207 is -- and do try to pay attention here -- more difficult at level 117 than it was at 111 DESPITE being six levels higher and with better gear.

It was never like that in MoP and earlier. No matter how much you want to lie to yourself that it was. When you were level 79 in WotLK, you could go back to the Borean Tundra and obliterate the mobs there that you had difficulty with at 70. When you were level 52 in Vanilla, you could go back to Elwynn Forest and everything would spontaneously combust if you just looked at it sideways. When you were level 68 in TBC, you could go back to Hellfire Penninsula and have an easy time blowing up most of the non-endgame mobs (and even against them, like the Fel Reaver, you still had a better than than you did back at 60). etc.

Why can't you get that through your skull? That's what people in this thread are talking about.

Jesus Christ.

um, yes it was.

it has always been this way.

you start new expansion with high tier gear from previous final raid. for shits and giggles, lets say ilvl 265.

new expansion mobs in first few zones are tuned for players ilvl 180. as such, you steamroll them in your raid gear, much like you would've world quests mobs at the end of the previous expansion.

every level, you earn, the mob power level is tuned upwards. i think it used to be 13 ilvls per player level. so by lvl 120, your average world quest mob would be tuned to ilvl 310. your gear, will be average quest gear, probably around ilvl 300.

what this means, is you've lost your 85 ilvl advantage. as well as your additional procs and stuff from the uber raid gear you had. and gone down to a 10 ilvl disadvantage. which you will gradually overcome by farming more gear.

this is literally how the game has worked for the past 13 years.

the only real difference the people in this thread can complain about, is the mob scaling, which was asked for by the community for years, which has invigorated the endgame outdoor world. oh no, you can't go back to the first levelling zone in the new expansion and obliterate mobs - cry some more. do some dungeons, do some raids. claw back that power advantage. you'll be pwning world quest mobs in no time.

oh no, blizz have actually given you an incentive to play - gotta go get mad on the forums!

also, bolded where you are totally wrong. you are six levels higher. your gear level is relative to your new player level and as such, is less powerful than the raid gear you had previously, due to the way in which stats scale as you level.

[rda]

um, yes it was.

it has always been this way.

you start new expansion with high tier gear from previous final raid. for shits and giggles, lets say ilvl 265.

new expansion mobs in first few zones are tuned for players ilvl 180. as such, you steamroll them in your raid gear, much like you would've world quests mobs at the end of the previous expansion.

every level, you earn, the mob power level is tuned upwards. i think it used to be 13 ilvls per player level. so by lvl 120, your average world quest mob would be tuned to ilvl 310. your gear, will be average quest gear, probably around ilvl 300.

what this means, is you've lost your 85 ilvl advantage. as well as your additional procs and stuff from the uber raid gear you had. and gone down to a 10 ilvl disadvantage. which you will gradually overcome by farming more gear.

this is literally how the game has worked for the past 13 years.

Mobs only started scaling to player level in Legion.

[Alkizon]

Scaling isn't belong to this game, never should be.

6. Bad world (and not only) scaling +/+/+/+/+/+/+

[SirBeef]

Had to wait for my 2 min cooldowns to clear any group of mobs at 120. awesome tuning.

And as soon as yo have a few pieces of WQ gear or heroic/mythic dungeon gear, you will be fine.

[munkeyinorbit]

I agree 120%. I was all over the old idea of content always scaling to stay relevant, but it completely destroys any feeling of progression when you make stats so much less impactful every level without compensating by feeding players much better gear.

I started off at 110 feeling good, you know able to pull a few mobs and kill them relatively fast. Ended up having to kill most things single target towards 120 and these were the sames mobs I backtracked because I missed some quests.

It feels really awful getting weaker every level.

Had to wait for my 2 min cooldowns to clear any group of mobs at 120. awesome tuning.

What were you doing? I was pulling 5-6 mobs into packs all the way to 120. Mobs are way harder when you are 120 and will continue to be so until some gear starts dropping. This complaint about how hard leveling is sounds like a L2P issue.

[SirBeef]

Mobs only started scaling to player level in Legion.

Mobs started scaling but, in older expansions you moved to the next zone and they were either the same level as you or a higher level. Meaning his argument is valid. Since moving to the level 62 zone at 61 would have put you at a disadvantage. Yes, you hit 63m and they become easier then you move to the 64 zone and they became tough again. This is just a more streamlined version of the same.

[Deleted]

No, it fucking wasn't.

In, let's go with WotLK, a level 70 character had a moderately difficult time in the Howling Fjord. But you know who didn't? A level 78 character. Because they got stronger and had better gear.

Same applies to Vanilla, TBC, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, and WoD.

You are objectively wrong. Period.

You're confusing the difficulty of taking on more powerful content (ie, the epic hero taking on an epic threat) with the issue that's making people feel weaker now (the so-called epic hero taking on the same fucking threat he did last week, only now it's ten times harder). That's on you. You're the one having trouble understanding shit, not everyone else on the planet. You.

Yeah it also made that entire zone useless becouse mobs were underleveled. I will rather play on entire continent than in 1 single zone.

[slime]

This is how every expansion starts. Give it a couple weeks and a few good upgrades and you'll start to feel much more capable. Then in a few months you'll be invincible to this entry-level stuff.

lol. not.
Previous expansions mobs didn't scale - you did get more powerful as you leveled.
"This is how every expansion starts".

[SirBeef]

What were you doing? I was pulling 5-6 mobs into packs all the way to 120. Mobs are way harder when you are 120 and will continue to be so until some gear starts dropping. This complaint about how hard leveling is sounds like a L2P issue.

I guess people forgot what it was really like when hitting max level in previous expansions. People have been bitching about having a rough time being a fresh, insert your favorite level cap level here, and having a rough go at it until they get some gear.

[rda]

Mobs started scaling but, in older expansions you moved to the next zone and they were either the same level as you or a higher level. Meaning his argument is valid. Since moving to the level 62 zone at 61 would have put you at a disadvantage. Yes, you hit 63m and they become easier then you move to the 64 zone and they became tough again. This is just a more streamlined version of the same.

This is a big difference. Pre-Legion you could choose not to move to a higher zone once you level up. Your quests and mobs would then slowly - slowly! - start turning green and then, eventually - many levels after - gray. You can no longer do this.

[Mr chub]

I have been enjoying it but been taking it super slow.

[SirBeef]

lol. not.
Previous expansions mobs didn't scale - you did get more powerful as you leveled.
"This is how every expansion starts".

And then you moved to a higher level zone and had to do it all over again. Similar to leveling now.

[DarkAmbient]

Leveling should not feel rewarding

Of course it should, it's a game. What's the point of levels if there's no power gain?

[SirBeef]

This is a big difference. Pre-Legion you could choose not to move to a higher zone once you level up. Your quests and mobs would then slowly - slowly! - start turning green and then, eventually - many levels after - gray. You can no longer do this.

but the premise is still the same, you get to a newer area and shit is rough again. Once you level it takes a while for the world to catch up, so you do have a little bit of time before they catch back up to you. Regardless, of this, max level has always been like this, shit hurts when you are fresh until you get some max level gear.

[rda]

but the premise is still the same, you get to a newer area and shit is rough again. Once you level it takes a while for the world to catch up, so you do have a little bit of time before they catch back up to you. Regardless, of this, max level has always been like this, shit hurts when you are fresh until you get some max level gear.

As I said, there is a big difference between the old behavior (mobs don't scale, you move to more difficult mobs yourself, can do this early, can do this late) and the new behavior (mobs scale automatically, nobody asks you anything, you just get weaker compared to all mobs, period).

Yours "the premise is still the same" is neither here, nor there. Both WoW and Tetris are games, so what. I like the old behavior. I don't like the new behavior. I explained why (I think in this thread, but I am not sure). Same for others.

[Alkizon]

but the premise is still the same, you get to a newer area and shit is rough again. Once you level it takes a while for the world to catch up, so you do have a little bit of time before they catch back up to you. Regardless, of this, max level has always been like this, shit hurts when you are fresh until you get some max level gear.

No, you stay in same zone, but all that you did before becomes more difficult for no reason and without any references to real world rules = artificial/meaningless. Ie if you didn't do it at a certain level, then it will only get worse, until you reach maximum. Of course, it was never like that before Legion.

ps. Scaling is a cancer for this game, since its design was never destined for this.

I understand how scaling works. Frankly I enjoy it. Nothing more boring than having nothing threatening in the world. Sure at max level with a lot of good gear, many things become somewhat trivial, but that is a while into the expansion.

That's why people say that you're wrong. Question wasn't whether you like it or not.

Question that you are talking about is solved by a large amount of content and by balance tuning (overcoming for example such trifles as characteristics inflation and so on), and not by exactly same stuff cheap endless exploitation. All this was in links that you was too lazy to read...