So Jaina is more powerful than Thalyssra - for real blizz?

[Claymore]

The comment struck me as odd, too.

However, it also prompted a series of thoughts; Jaina has been directly involved in most of the greatest battles Azeroth has ever faced. Thalyssra, although ancient, has essentially been safe in a bubble for thousands of years. They used magic and researched the arcane, but they weren't exactly "honing their battle prowess". That, coupled with Jaina seemingly *unusually* powerful (actually, Sylvanas also seems unusually powerful lately), I think paints a scenario that Thalyssra probably wouldn't want to engage in a direct confrontation.

[death604]

gosh they're in enemy territory, so obviously they're rather flee than fight Jaina who could get reinforcements

[derpkitteh]

it is stupid that she is definitely stronger than thalyssra.

but i don't think the "we can't fight her" comment was due to being entirely outmatched power-wise. talanji, the pc, and zul with thalyssra equals or surpasses jaina's abilities to contend with. the problem is that we're in the middle of stormwind with the entire stormwind army and a large gilnean and night elf force baring down on us. we don't have the time needed for a dedicated fight with her while being this outnumbered.

so if it was all of us out in a field, us and jaina, and there's no plot armor, jaina loses to that. 1v1, jaina wins. surrounded by hundreds of enemies? jaina wins.

[Knightsword]

A Blood Elf mage (the name escapes me) confirmed during the questline leading up to opening of Nighthold that while Nightborne magic has it's specialties, it is inferior to complexities of the ten thousand years of advancement modern magic has had. You know the modern magic Jaina was taught.

[Beloren]

A Blood Elf mage (the name escapes me) confirmed during the questline leading up to opening of Nighthold that while Nightborne magic has it's specialties, it is inferior to complexities of the ten thousand years of advancement modern magic has had. You know the modern magic Jaina was taught.

You've actually got it backwards. Spell breaking is a speciality developed by the high elves, not much use for it in the night elf empire that dominated the world with almost no conflict. But by every account their magic 10k years ago was head and shoulders above anyone elses today, we are suppose to think arcane kaldorei is phenomenal, and the nightborne had made improvements to, unlike the Kaldorei surivors and those who broke off to become highborne, the nightborne lost nothing in Suramar, the only other group in a similar position were the Shen'dralar, and by all accounts they were going strong for the 10k years, i think they only started falling to ruin around 200 years before the dark portal opens - so up till that point they were pretty much like Suramar, but without a shield, so a bit more exposed. And remember these groups made improvements over that advanced knowledge - albeit in the case of the nightborne, we are shown that it was slow improvements in that 10k years as you can expect in a bubble. In the case of the Shen'dralar - kiiling your populace to fuel your magic is really going to hurt the knowledge you retain.

There extra factors to consider too:

What people don't realise is that You can have advanced magic theory, knowledge, great spell works galore, it doesn't mean you are also great at killing people. Night elves are peaceful creative types. Wanna bet while they can turn their magical mastery to damage and mayham, they are not quite as good at killing as some of us. They would be miles ahead in almost every application of magic, especially great spells, creating stuff, building, magic theory to a height, devices and magical imlements - they would have had a global kingdom to draw form, and a well of power accelrating knowledge, discovery, - we come after an apocalypse event, and in this narrative we have never recovered even a fraction of what we had before in that era. The existence of the nightborne and highborne returning I think brings some of that advanced knowledge back, but most of it is in non-combat areas.

And for all their advancements and being ahead of us, it is certainly true that we would have developed things they hadn't. Simpler perhaps than their level of complexity, but if they don't have it, they don't have it, and in the case of the blood elf mage, this can be very useful and used to great effect.

[Powerogue]

Everyone knows [Unquenchable Thirst For Vengeance] gives you +10,000 spellpower.

[Deleted]

Thalyssra was stabbed in the back, became a junkie for a while, lost her Well power.

Jaina has a Titan empowered staff.

[Daevelian]

It still amazes me that people think 10'000 years of luxury and complacency hidden behind a shield means they will be masters of all things magical.

10'000 years experience drinking wine and chatting up nobles is not a great teacher of the magical arts...

[Deleted]

Does she though, because that staff she has isn't the same one and it hasn't been brought up since she threatened Orgrimmar.

Its the staff of Antonidas, who she was also tutored by. She may not be able to take the Horde party down, but she would have removed a few of them permanently.

Edit. And do remember, if she could stall them for say, a minute or two, the Horde party would have been swarmed by guards, Mages from the tower and all sorts of dangerous shit.

- - - Updated - - -

It still amazes me that people think 10'000 years of luxury and complacency hidden behind a shield means they will be masters of all things magical.

10'000 years experience drinking wine and chatting up nobles is not a great teacher of the magical arts...

Its a Horde Pride Vs. Alliance Pride thing...

At the moment, Horde is 2-0, because of Teldrassil and Undercity, and like in any sports, if you are ahead of the other team, you like to boast and boo at the opposition ;-)

[tristannarutofan]

the warcraft writers know more about warcraft lore than you
Thalyssra knows more about mage battles than you
there is a huge difference between sheer power and knowledge knowledge is a serious advantage but 10,000 years of peace in a single city with no opposition is no match for real world experience.
jaina literally spent the entire last year fighting the legion by herself.

mages arent...batteries that charge up the more they arent used . if you look around the city there are thousands of unique applications of magic, most of them utterly useless in combat.

just because the nightborne are advanced enough to make magic robots doesnt mean the best can take down someone whos been busting down walls for the last decade with sheer power

[Niaraa]

i dont know why people are thinking elves should be better in magic? that's never be a thing in wow human alway be stronger in magic and learn it easily.

[Axaion]

Maybe the power difference between thalyrra and elisande was that huge

[Aphrel]

All Hail Jaina of house Proudmore, daughter of the seas, Archmage of Kul'tiras!

[Trbn]

the warcraft writers know more about warcraft lore than you

that must be a joke, right?

[Deleted]

U do understand that she was kept prisoner in the most outdated facility in Azeroth. I don't understand what kept them from escaping the first time. But we'll when u need a portal guy to help u create portals around suramar whereas the other one navigates a flagship and mass teleports 4 peop to safety then u only run

[crazyfool319]

Wait, by that the night elves should be able to mop the floor with anything. Their druids have 10k plus years of experience, their warriors, their hunters... If that was true the horde would have been rofl stomped in their mud huts expansions ago.

Experience is a factor, but so is physique. Orc warriors are more physically able than night elf warriors. Also the orcs brought warlocks to the equation, a type of magic the elves hadnt encountered much.

[Zulkhan]

It still amazes me that people think 10'000 years of luxury and complacency hidden behind a shield means they will be masters of all things magical.

10'000 years experience drinking wine and chatting up nobles is not a great teacher of the magical arts...

What actually amazes me is how people keep discussing this Jaina vs Thalyssra thing for 21 pages as something that actually matters or has valuable grounds to be argued over, when this whole tirade should have ended even before starting, at the thread's literal second post.

[Feanoro]

@Zulkhan: What's the internet without "My daddy can beat up your daddy" threads?

[therealbowser]

Jaina basically absorbed the power of Lei Shen into herself. What did Thalyssra do, besides struggle against foot soldiers and withered?

I'm not saying Thalyssra is weak, but this is a petty comparison. Elisande was largely as powerful as she was because of the Nghtwell, anyways.

[Daevelian]

What actually amazes me is how people keep discussing this Jaina vs Thalyssra thing for 21 pages as something that actually matters or has valuable grounds to be argued over, when this whole tirade should have ended even before starting, at the thread's literal second post.

Well, this IS the mmo-c lore forum, the only place on the internet where delusional sycophants can create 200 page threads white knighting Sylvanas. Something like this is actually quite tame by comparison.

Though you are right, that second post should have ended this one quite thoroughly.