I don't really want lfr to be released...

[Soxoffender]

Or even better, just remove LFR. It's that simple. Giving out free loot is not good for the game. No amount of bullshit from your part is going to change that.

How is it bad for the game? FYI - that it annoys you isn't a great answer. We've already established that the gear is going to be worse than half a dozen alternative options (M+, raidsx3, crafting, reps) and that there's far easier ways to try to game the titanforge system for good procs. LFR is a really inefficient way to get anything better than the (quite bad at the date of release) 340 gear. At this point the only argument left seems to be "My level and rate of progression is good and should be rewarded but their level and rate of progression is bad and should not be rewarded at all." It's the same myopic nonsense as "Everyone who plays more than me is a pathetic no-lifer and everyone who plays less than me is a filthy casual"

LFR does not exist in a vacuum - it affects every player whether they use it or not. It breaks the progression model, forces all shared content to be aimed at the lowest denominator which in turn forces the removal of any complexity from class design and gameplay. In addition it forces Blizzard to come up with convoluted ways to try and stop people completing the content too quickly. Simply put, multiple skill levels don't work in multi player games as most content is shared.

1. It doesn't affect progression like it did during, say, Dragonsoul. Anyone who isn't viewing LFR as their end-game is going to be fully or at least mostly decked out in 340+ gear by the time LFR hits. This poll started 5 days ago and roughly 40% of players are saying they're already in that boat: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post49995717 There's no need to go there if you aren't a fan of it.
2. You may dislike class ability pruning but there's zero evidence that LFR has any effect on it and gameplay in the form of dungeon and raid difficulty is on a sliding scale that starts with LFR and ends with literally mathematically impossible M+ dungeons.
3. Multiple difficulty levels in raiding has existed since Blizz introduced 20 man 'easy' raids in Vanilla and were at their zenith in Wrath when people were running 4 different versions of the same dungeon each week and ICC25N was giving out better gear than the more difficult 10H - if this is damaging the game then it's taking a very long time to do so.

How is 340 loot that can be even higher garbage loot?

Hyperbole perhaps but a huge swathe of the community are already decked out in 340 so it'll be garbage to them. It won't be an upgrade for anyone who raids or does M+, so it's only any good if LFR is your end game. Nobody who doesn't want to do LFR will have to and the only consistent anti-LFR argument in this thread is some version of "I don't care that it's junk to me, I just get pissed off seeing bads getting any raid gear at all."

[Lenarific]

Why does it matter.... Why do you care.... and why is there over 11 pages of this dribble....

[vashe9]

lol some people want 340+ for stupid mm0 you can rush with a full 305 geared group (not even enough to queue for heroics)...
Thats not blizzard's fault, people are just stupid

[Mr chub]

Sure provide me some actual data that what he said is wrong, Not a wall of text but actual factual data.

Spoiler: You can't because they are the ones running the multi-billion dollar game and not you

So no... you won't take him being shown wrong before you will dismiss it as not relevant....

[Asura00]

Well I want it. I'm taking a break from organized guild raiding this expansion because i've been doing it consistently since WotLK but I do still want to see the raids.

[Piesor]

Right now the way the game is... feels right. Sure there are minor problems here and there but at the moment everything feels balanced and in tune. Content is rewarding at all levels of play from world quests to mythic dungeons. Rep rewards actually offer some decent rewards and no matter what you do everything feels like it matters.

...Must lfr come and shatter this? What if for a change it just... didn't? What if mythic dungeons stayed as the proving ground and people with the desire to just slowly filtered into normal? I know this likely can't happen and spring must always end but I find it frustrating. Why must we return to the cycle of simply afking through lfr when without it the game seems so much richer and deep?

I definitely know what you mean, normally I would also hate Lfr to be released.
But the BfA release date was completely awful for me. I was not able to freak out at launch because I had zero time to play. I just hit lvl120 yesterday and didn't even start one of the zones yet.

Now there's just so much for me to do to get ready for raiding and so few time left. On top the my holiday will start next weekend (2 weeks) and I won't be able to login before the 16th of September. I am really looking forward for Lfr this time because for me it is the perfect opportunity to catch up and get some gear and at least have the opportunity to join myth(+) groups faster. This way my guild does not have to carry me that hard through Uldir for the first IDs for me to come.

[Orange Joe]

This post is destroyed by its last sentence... nothing was butchered you still have three modes of raiding and mythic plus as every other aspect of the game is made redundant by a queue...

The selfish logic of this is astounding.

I don't think you understand logic....


How is him saying the content YOU still have available selfish on his part?

[Jtbrig7390]

So no... you won't take him being shown wrong before you will dismiss it as not relevant....

I said yes if you can provide actual data and not a wall of text. A wall of text isn't data its a opinion.

Give me spread sheets, Give me their budget on on raiding. You know give me the things only they will have and you don't.

That is why your argument doesn't work, They got the numbers and they develope the game. You don't.

[Ramahan]

Right now the way the game is... feels right. Sure there are minor problems here and there but at the moment everything feels balanced and in tune. Content is rewarding at all levels of play from world quests to mythic dungeons. Rep rewards actually offer some decent rewards and no matter what you do everything feels like it matters.

...Must lfr come and shatter this? What if for a change it just... didn't? What if mythic dungeons stayed as the proving ground and people with the desire to just slowly filtered into normal? I know this likely can't happen and spring must always end but I find it frustrating. Why must we return to the cycle of simply afking through lfr when without it the game seems so much richer and deep?

Oh look! Another Elitest PLayer who think the game should be all about thier playstyle! <Sarcasm> What a Shock <Sarcasm>

I think the usual line used when players complain about Warmode will work best here

If you don't like it no one is forcing you to use it!

[Otimus]

One quick glance at that thread about what ilvls people request for mythics is a good snapshot of why LFR needs to exist and will probably continue to exist for the rest of the life of the game.

Bet you probably half of those people are also anti-LFR lol. The same people who helped give birth to it.

[Boxilot]

Can we stop making "LFR is bad" threads? We've had them released pretty much daily since LFR was introduced.

LFR serves an important part in the game, in that it gets people actually into the raids. Do you want Dragon Soul? Do you want every tier to be like that? No? Stop whining about LFR

What on earth are you talking about? People raided just fine before LFR. We had casual raiding groups that were happy clearing certain bosses and wings. There were tiers of raiders, then and now, the only difference was that casual raiders did their best within their means and actually felt proud when the bosses died and they got some loot.

[Halyon]

Ohh my friend, i feel ya!!!

While i feel like the coming opening of the raids and the warfront as a slowly rising dawn, the LFR addition have the feel of the moon coming crashing in like in Majora's Mask. The barrier for entry into LFR of 300 feels REALLY low this time around and it justs puts a big bumb in the road of the current nice gear progression in the game.

.... That said, the game will ofcourse still do fine, but it is just sad to see, that Blizzard ruins a system which works fine with something like LFR.

How utterly terrible that you can plain out ignore lfr and let the people who like doing lfr do that and get gear from there as well as whatever other content they choose to do.

Lfr is fine. If it helps prime people to raid if they want to, (or just stick to lfr), what skin off your back is it? None. You do the content you want to do, others do theirs. The only 'true' raid tier is mythic regardless, so unless you do Mythic raiding, you're not doing it 'right' either. So what?

[Mr chub]

How is it bad for the game? FYI - that it annoys you isn't a great answer. We've already established that the gear is going to be worse than half a dozen alternative options (M+, raidsx3, crafting, reps) and that there's far easier ways to try to game the titanforge system for good procs. LFR is a really inefficient way to get anything better than the (quite bad at the date of release) 340 gear. At this point the only argument left seems to be "My level and rate of progression is good and should be rewarded but their level and rate of progression is bad and should not be rewarded at all." It's the same myopic nonsense as "Everyone who plays more than me is a pathetic no-lifer and everyone who plays less than me is a filthy casual"

1. It doesn't affect progression like it did during, say, Dragonsoul. Anyone who isn't viewing LFR as their end-game is going to be fully or at least mostly decked out in 340+ gear by the time LFR hits. This poll started 5 days ago and roughly 40% of players are saying they're already in that boat: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post49995717 There's no need to go there if you aren't a fan of it.
2. You may dislike class ability pruning but there's zero evidence that LFR has any effect on it and gameplay in the form of dungeon and raid difficulty is on a sliding scale that starts with LFR and ends with literally mathematically impossible M+ dungeons.
3. Multiple difficulty levels in raiding has existed since Blizz introduced 20 man 'easy' raids in Vanilla and were at their zenith in Wrath when people were running 4 different versions of the same dungeon each week and ICC25N was giving out better gear than the more difficult 10H - if this is damaging the game then it's taking a very long time to do so.

Hyperbole perhaps but a huge swathe of the community are already decked out in 340 so it'll be garbage to them. It won't be an upgrade for anyone who raids or does M+, so it's only any good if LFR is your end game. Nobody who doesn't want to do LFR will have to and the only consistent anti-LFR argument in this thread is some version of "I don't care that it's junk to me, I just get pissed off seeing bads getting any raid gear at all."

Huge is less then 1% now? Also for saying lfr doesn't effect other content doesn't seem genuine when you bring up dragonsoul the tier where people got banned exploiting lfr for raiding.

- - - Updated - - -

I said yes if you can provide actual data and not a wall of text. A wall of text isn't data its a opinion.

Give me spread sheets, Give me their budget on on raiding. You know give me the things only they will have and you don't.

That is why your argument doesn't work, They got the numbers and they develope the game. You don't.

You both misunderstood what I said and asked the impossible...

[Jtbrig7390]

You both misunderstood what I said and asked the impossible...

So you can't prove what the HEAD DEVELOPER of WOW said is wrong.

Ok thanks for ending your own thread.

[Tekkommo]

Huge is less then 1% now? Also for saying lfr doesn't effect other content doesn't seem genuine when you bring up dragonsoul the tier where people got banned exploiting lfr for raiding.

- - - Updated - - -



You both misunderstood what I said and asked the impossible...

Read what he said, slowly if you have to.

"It doesn't affect progression like it did during, say, Dragonsoul."

[Deleted]

Right now the way the game is... feels right. Sure there are minor problems here and there but at the moment everything feels balanced and in tune. Content is rewarding at all levels of play from world quests to mythic dungeons. Rep rewards actually offer some decent rewards and no matter what you do everything feels like it matters.

...Must lfr come and shatter this? What if for a change it just... didn't? What if mythic dungeons stayed as the proving ground and people with the desire to just slowly filtered into normal? I know this likely can't happen and spring must always end but I find it frustrating. Why must we return to the cycle of simply afking through lfr when without it the game seems so much richer and deep?

So you don't want something released? And now Blizzard shouldn't because your voice, means absolutely "anything"? Get outta here, and go play No mans Sky, pleb.

[Mr chub]

So you don't want something released? And now Blizzard shouldn't because your voice, means absolutely "anything"? Get outta here, and go play No mans Sky, pleb.

That strawman your fighting sounds evil I hope you run him through.

[vashe9]

Normal mode is not really harder than lfr anyway (but you have to build or join a group)... whats the difference ?
Maybe you want normal (and heroic ?) mode removed too ? What's the point ????
I do lfr once or twice then I forget about it because I outgear it pretty fast anyway (with mm+ and normal/hm raid)

[Soxoffender]

Huge is less then 1% now? Also for saying lfr doesn't effect other content doesn't seem genuine when you bring up dragonsoul the tier where people got banned exploiting lfr for raiding.

Where are you getting less than 1% from?

39% of respondents to this are already at 340 and above and that includes responses from 5 days ago:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post49995717
Even accounting for MMO Champ folks consistently reporting as being ahead of the curve, there's plenty of opportunity for those who don't want to go near LFR to outgear the drops by the time that it's out and I fully expect that to happen.

I mentioned Dragon Soul because LFR was poorly implemented then and it definitely affected progression, even aside from the exploitation. It came out before Mythic was available, outgeared Normal from the previous tier and provided a source of powerful set bonuses - none of that is the case any longer.

[Mattelot]

Why is it only in WoW people bitch about LFR? Automated groups are a god send and if Mythic was added too perhaps more people would do it

I don't understand why. I've played many games that have raids and I find that WoW is the only game that did it right. You get into an easy-mode version of the raid that requires little to no coordination so that you can see the content and feel rewarded for it while those who are more "hardcore" can do harder versions and get better rewards. The LFR are broken up, so you don't have to invest a large chunk of time at once.

Most games I play, you're required to make your own group, invest many hours up front and you're not likely to succeed the first few times you try. Destiny 2 tried this with guided games, which are a complete mess... 45 minute+ queues for singles only to get matched up with a group that says "sorry, we're looking for someone (insert max power level here) that has already completed the raid." Then you get booted, have to re-queue, wait another 45+ minutes and hope the next group doesn't say the same. Then if you're lucky and get in, your odds of actual completion are small.