With items like these, is WoW Pay to Win?

[LiPiNo]

We already explained it, if you are too stupid to understand I cannot help.

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No it isn't.

You guys have literally no idea what a P2W is, you are just envy of people that have gold or do stuff more elaborate than your weekly LFR.

P2W is literally taking acquiring something that isn't possibile to acquire normally in the game, it would be like buying an Azerite Set with new and stronger traits than current, for money and that Set wouldn't be in game.

that is p2w.


Buying stuff off AH with gold isn't otherwise even buying flask or enchant from AH it is, if I don't have gold and can't purchase enchants therefore it is p2w _durr_


see how dumb is your logic?

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Having New Race on Shop, that is op in pvp and pve? that is p2w

For the last time, i am not jealous, i could buy some boes if i wanted to, its not the topic though (i just bought 3 tokens yesterday, they are in sweet spot now). Im just not naive to think there is no p2win in wow.
What you say is ALSO pay to win, its not the only one though. Your example is good , but you fail to realize that even in the most pay to win korean games you CAN obtain these items, because you can usually reverse currency by some means, or collect some very rare "scrolls, or diamonds, or whatever" with super low drop chance and then buy said item. The point is most people will not and some will say fuck this , im gonna buy this. And that is pay to win. I can see that the thought of pay 2 win in wow is offending you and thats why you resort to LFR and unability bullshit - grow up.

[Deleted]

We already explained it, if you are too stupid to understand I cannot help.

Seems like you don't understand. You haven't explained anything, all you've done is give your opinion on the matter and on what "p2w" is. Your opinions aren't facts, sorry. It's your word against mine, unless you have a dictionary backing you up.
"If you're too stupid to understand this, I cannot help"

[crakerjack]

I disagree. It is pay to win if it's extremely grindy and time consuming. As in the P2W is in the design.

For example, imagine you can buy a whole gear set of 350 gear now for gold/money. You can get the same item in-game if you grind for 6 months. It's pay to win. They are telling you pay up or get left behind.

That was just a repair to your definition. We are in agreement this particular case isn't P2W.

Is blizzard selling these items directly? Or are they farmed by players and sold for in game currency? Because if it takes 6 months to farm these items, how are people already selling them all over the place? If you want a BoE, I'm more than sure you could find a group and obtain one within that week. Doesn't seem very P2W when you're on the other side.

[Deleted]

Is blizzard selling these items directly? Or are they farmed by players and sold for in game currency? Because if it takes 6 months to farm these items, how are people already selling them all over the place? If you want a BoE, I'm more than sure you could find a group and obtain one within that week. Doesn't seem very P2W when you're on the other side.

One week of work versus paying real money hmmm...

[Deleted]

Is blizzard selling these items directly? Or are they farmed by players and sold for in game currency? Because if it takes 6 months to farm these items, how are people already selling them all over the place? If you want a BoE, I'm more than sure you could find a group and obtain one within that week. Doesn't seem very P2W when you're on the other side.

Dude... it's an example. You don't get to change the terms. Even if it was created by players, it would presumably be just as difficult to get. Stop trying to spin, you can get this. If the game design is telling you it's extremely difficult to progress without spending money, that is P2W.
That is NOT THE CASE HERE!

[LiPiNo]

We already explained it, if you are too stupid to understand I cannot help.

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No it isn't.

You guys have literally no idea what a P2W is, you are just envy of people that have gold or do stuff more elaborate than your weekly LFR.

P2W is literally taking acquiring something that isn't possibile to acquire normally in the game, it would be like buying an Azerite Set with new and stronger traits than current, for money and that Set wouldn't be in game.

that is p2w.


Buying stuff off AH with gold isn't otherwise even buying flask or enchant from AH it is, if I don't have gold and can't purchase enchants therefore it is p2w _durr_


see how dumb is your logic?

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Having New Race on Shop, that is op in pvp and pve? that is p2w

Your whole argument is offending the ones arguing with you. Enjoy the well deserved ban.

[Queen of Hamsters]

One week of work versus paying real money hmmm...

One week of engaging in a hobby versus paying real money that could be better spent elsewhere. Hmmm...

[Evaddon]

No, its relatively easy to make gold. You can farm mounts right now to easily make half a mil.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Dude... it's an example. You don't get to change the terms. Even if it was created by players, it would presumably be just as difficult to get. Stop trying to spin, you can get this. If the game design is telling you it's extremely difficult to progress without spending money, that is P2W.
That is NOT THE CASE HERE!

<snipped>

They should just go ahead and add the whole P2W-debate to the same box as conspiracy theories or even trolling at this point.

One can't help but shiver at what goes down in actually PW2-designed titles. :<

[Appelgren]

WoW became pay to win the moment they added level-up boost into store and the gold buying mechanic just further emphasised it. Of course there are nutwits trying to argue that pay 2 win only applies when you can practically by the end credits but the reality is that when you insert money into something and get a gameplay benefit, it is a pay 2 win mechanic. Skipping leveling and obtaining gold for money are gameplay benefits.

100% Wrong

[Wilian]

100% Wrong

Everything that I said is 100% accurate and factual. Your personal opinion on the matter does not matter.

[Cyanu]

I see lots of BoE epics on the auction house for very high prices. Now one can go buy the token with real money to get that kind of gold together and therefore pay for it with real money, like you can do in Pay to Win games, where it gives you an unfair advantage over the people who don't spend real money on the game.

If not, then what would have to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win? If being able to buy powerful gear with real money isn't enough, then what has to happen for WoW to be Pay to Win?

oh my, 350! i got a 355 titanforged while doing a HC dungeon on my alt yesterday...

does this stupidity never end?

vanila was better, wow is p2win, LFR destroyed the game... how could people possibly form so stupid opinions is beyond me

ps: yes i almost forgot the level boost arguement... as if anyone gives a shit about how many lvl 120 characters you have... how does this help you?...

[Deleted]

I dont think so as the items arent being sold directly? also they will be below raid ilvl so not that important

[Unholyground]

It is P2W since the introduction of Tokens.

Only people with more money than brains spend real money to get that stuff in game. I have better things to spend money on like drugs and food.

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indirect p2w is still p2w, no matter if its managed by blizz or other players

This is stuff that was generated in game though, they are not magically generating these items for sale.

[SinR]

full 355 gear, dies in fire.

Money Well Spent

[Katchii]

I personally don't consider it P2W, for the same reason others have already said (doesn't really give you much of an advantage, and it depends on what your overall goal is, high ilevel doesn't mean winning IMO), but it's close with the token introduction and level boosts.

[Tiwack]

oh my, 350! i got a 355 titanforged while doing a HC dungeon on my alt yesterday...

does this stupidity never end?

vanila was better, wow is p2win, LFR destroyed the game... how could people possibly form so stupid opinions is beyond me

ps: yes i almost forgot the level boost arguement... as if anyone gives a shit about how many lvl 120 characters you have... how does this help you?...

well you see... none of them thought of those themselves, they run with whatever weaponized shit they heard/read somewhere for attention and reactions instead of approaching others with a good and honest mind being based in themselves to have a solid discussion on their in-game experience. The "no-true scotsman" and "blame-game" is sooo much more fun when people take your bait because they have to in order to not compromise what they stand for. Idiots don't want to stand anywhere in a life of indecision and unhappiness. Like it's a fucking mystery and impossible to change anything so why not have fun with it and enjoy an existence like groundhog-day being on autopilot and running from everything. They forget the man inside them along with his needs meaning they return again and again for something they're ambivalent about in human contact being both detested and wanted, driving themselves nuts when the foot is never put forward in any work to make something of themselves one day.

[Enkrypt]

So the gold you get allows you to buy items from the AH or other players; items already found IN-GAME. They aren't being bought outside of the game and brought into the game. They exist in the game already for anybody and everybody to access.

I can't tell if you're being willfully ignorant to the point being made, or if you really don't know. So I'll tell you. Your logic is deeply flawed. Also, they aren't game time tokens only. They're WoW Tokens which have several functions. I feel like you're taking that far too literally, and are bordering on being asinine with your replies.

A WoW Token can be purchased for $20 USD. That token turns into a set amount of gold. Let's say 200,000g for demonstrative purposes. So with $80 USD, I could buy 800,000g worth of WoW Tokens, and then go to the AH, and buy a 350 ilevel weapon that wasn't earned, it was purchased, instead. It was was paid for, not earned.

Therefore it is a P2W scenario. If you throw enough money into the game, you can have an advantage over other players. Your definition of P2W is fraught with mental gymnastics that only serve your version of P2W, and not the actual. Is WoW more subtle than other games in this department? Absolutely.

[MechaCThun]

I can't tell if you're being willfully ignorant to the point being made, or if you really don't know. So I'll tell you. Your logic is deeply flawed. Also, they aren't game time tokens only. They're WoW Tokens which have several functions. I feel like you're taking that far too literally, and are bordering on being asinine with your replies.

A WoW Token can be purchased for $20 USD. That token turns into a set amount of gold. Let's say 200,000g for demonstrative purposes. So with $80 USD, I could buy 800,000g worth of WoW Tokens, and then go to the AH, and buy a 350 ilevel weapon that wasn't earned, it was purchased, instead. It was was paid for, not earned.

Therefore it is a P2W scenario. If you throw enough money into the game, you can have an advantage over other players. Your definition of P2W is fraught with mental gymnastics that only serve your version of P2W, and not the actual. Is WoW more subtle than other games in this department? Absolutely.

Thank you for responding to only to one of my posts, and none of my updated/follow-up posts after.

[Appelgren]

Everything that I said is 100% accurate and factual. Your personal opinion on the matter does not matter.

Not even remotely. Your personal opinion of what P2W is distorted and false. I feel sorry for you that you are immune to facts. Good luck mate!

Could just close this thread. This person is so narrowminded that it hurts my head.