Now that ML is gone, how are all you GM/RL's feeling?

[shyguybman]

I don't care that much besides the fact that there are some people in my guild that somehow have RNG of the gods and will get TF gear up the ass. In general though I prefer just group loot or w/e as I would rather see loot on a boss then loot nothing but that's just a mental thing.

[niil945]

Well, for once, every healer will have to be in dps loot spec to try to get dps trinkets for other raiders.

Every piece of gear that will be tradable will have to be traded to the officer who will be in charge of redistributing it to the guild.

Quality of Life change right there.

Plus people will have to check Armory to see if anyone tried the soon-to-be good old "don't loot and wait for the postmaster to send you your loot.

Why would healers be in dps spec for dps trinkets when they'll have to get 2 different trinkets in order to pass one of them due to ilvl restrictions on trading? Seems counterproductive to me.

[Thagrynor]

I think the biggest issue I would have is the disparity in benefit based on armor and weapon-type usage.

Mail wearers are at a disadvantage because there are only 2 classes that wear Mail and one of those isn't doing great in DPS. While it won't matter for most guilds/groups as they are not pressing hardcore progression, it can still make a difference for some.

Class specific weapons also are at a disadvantage. Hunters more than any other are hurt by this, with Demon Hunters coming somewhat behind them. Demon Hunters at least have the option of using other weapon options if they want. Agility staves are another weapon that is used very rarely and only by certain specs within those classes.

If you are the only one that falls into one of these categories, you are at a disadvantage, because while the drop rate relative to ML drops might be the same, everyone else gets the potential of more rolls for loot since, assuming it isn't an upgrade for whomever it dropped for, it could potentially go to them. If you had 5 plate wearers in your raid that comprised a Blood DK, 2 Rets, 1 Arms and 1 Fury, in theory, you have 5 rolls per boss for a weapon upgrade coupled with all the actual plate gear. Similar situation for basically all Clothies, since they can share gear and some weapons (daggers and wands, for instance). If you are the only Hunter with no Shaman, aside from rings, trinkets and a cloak, if something doesn't drop for you, you get zero other chances for upgrades.

I think this is the worst part about the switch to only PL, that some get a huge boost to potential gearing upgrades while others stay at the same chance. The disparity, depending on your raid make up, can become rather large. So I think the annoyance as a RL would be amplified by this as you watch certain classes soar through gear while others are at a disadvantage and have to deal with some getting frustrated by their lack of progression. That frustration can sometimes be mitigated when it feels like most others are in the same boat, but with this, it won't be the case.

[Nikkaszal]

So let me get this straight. If you had a player that was constantly parsing in the 99th percentile of his respective class, you'd still kick him if he was the "quiet type" or somewhat aloof? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Quiet? No. Abrasive and detrimental to group morale? Yes.

When I was raiding hardcore and pushing server firsts back in WotLK, we had a rogue who was consistently top DPS, probably the best damage-dealer on the server.

And yeah, we ended up kicking him because he was an absolute CUNT.

[GreenJesus]

Our guild held a poll on surveymonkey for our whole guild (raiders) to take. It had 4 options:

All loot is at your discretion.
All loot will be master looted besides trinkets and rings.
All loot will be master looted besides trinkets, rings, and azerite armor.
All loot with be master looted.

Not sure what the result of the poll yet is, but it will be interesting. Even someone who is super greedy in our guild and always complains about loot said he voted for all items to be master looted.

Edit: 13 people voted full master loot, 2 people voted partial master loot, 7 people voted full personal. That shows you that not just officers want master looter.

[Alphatorg]

You forgot one thing, we are not in TBC anymore, the game is no longer raid or die. There are many other activities that requires good gear. Gear is a tool, I agree, but it's tool for me not for my guild. It's a tool to do higher M+, it's a tool to do expeditions/WQ faster, it's a tool to solo old raids. And i couldn't care less if we kill boss 1 week later because person X didn't get the trinket I could give him, if it's upgrade for me I'm gonna keep it no matter what. As long as we clear the content it's fine, I don't see the point in fighting for wowprogress rankings, it's not like you're going for world first anyway.

I mean world ranks are only determining your guilds ability to recruit new players, to keep the raid afloat, but if you need raid drops to do world quests and old raids then I guess that has priority.

[Socialhealer]

just TF all your loot, that way it's too high ilvl to trade.

[MidnyteTV]

Honestly, i'd never play in a guild that has a council of neckbeards deciding who deserves rewards for their time. But to each his/her own.

You can thank all the "ML MS>OS" pugs for this change.

The people that caused this change were the people that perpetuated the myth that guilds somehow "stole" gear from players. It's a pure myth.

- - - Updated - - -

Quiet? No. Abrasive and detrimental to group morale? Yes.

When I was raiding hardcore and pushing server firsts back in WotLK, we had a rogue who was consistently top DPS, probably the best damage-dealer on the server.

And yeah, we ended up kicking him because he was an absolute CUNT.

I had a guy that was a great DPSer, but he was a total douchebag. Kicking his punk ass was the best thing that ever happened to my guild.

[Siraeyou]

Well, for once, every healer will have to be in dps loot spec to try to get dps trinkets for other raiders.

Every piece of gear that will be tradable will have to be traded to the officer who will be in charge of redistributing it to the guild.

Quality of Life change right there.

Plus people will have to check Armory to see if anyone tried the soon-to-be good old "don't loot and wait for the postmaster to send you your loot.

This is only the case if you want to maintain some semblance of Master Loot within your raid team. And even so you don't necessarily have to have the middle man officer holding all the loot. You can just trust your raid team to not be shitheads and properly trade amongst themselves after the loot council decides the fate of the loot.

[Thraps]

I can understand the change but i dont agree with it, a system based on total RNG can have potential to be disastrous. Player X could get all the loot he/she needs every week and then get titanforges after that. Player Y is not getting the luck of the drops and relies on people already getting gear not to get a titanforge upgrade therfore unable to trade. Whilst this is probably a very unlikely scenario, it could and probably will still happen in a few rare cases.

The bit i understand about them doing this is so all players get a chance on loot as some and i say some guilds as it is only some guilds that just loot whore everything to a select few players. The guilds i have been in and friends in other guilds on either horde or alliance never really have a loot dramers, to be fair the loot dramers in a raiding guild are few and far between these days.

In terms of gearing it makes the whole process of gearing your whole raiding guild more long and dawn out now, which is never a good thing. Being able to assign loot to where it needs to go for fair distribution is and should always be a core part of a raiding guild.

[RoKPaNda]

We're just going to let the chips fall where they may and if someone wants to offer something up fine. Once people realize how much of an absolute hassle it's going to be to micromanage everything I expect most guilds will give up on the idea of micromanaging every single piece of loot. It simply isn't necessary if you're not racing for world first. So it matters for like 2 guilds in the entire world. Woo.

[Nefarious Tea]

I think it's absolutely garbage game design that removing everything and forcing personal loot was even CONSIDERED, much less implemented, and I hope several people are removed from Blizzard as a company when the change is finally reverted.

Anyway, as a raid leader of a fairly casual guild (ie. we never managed a Cutting Edge Mythic clear in Legion), the forced personal loot doesn't affect my guild too much, as we already used it. Mostly as a speed thing; instead of taking the council or lootmaster or whoever out of trash pulls or even delaying bosses depending on how long it takes, we could just have people pick up their own shit and put it up for grabs if it was a super popular item or they didn't need it. I mean, our officers consist of two tanks, two healers, and two DPS. Most of those roles are pretty critical, even for trash. However, much less so for loot and if we didn't use personal loot, our officers would pretty much not be getting gear. Except the one officer I guess because somehow we never ever seem to get leather melee applicants (nor have any already in guild except his rogue) - but I'm the plate DPS officer and also the recruiter so I guess he's just stupid lucky. BECAUSE I WANT A DH FOR THAT BUFF.

Illo dicto, what did piss me off quite a bit was how Azerite gear wasn't tradeable for a long time. I'm glad they changed that nonsense, even if it was last minute. Also, the lack of legendaries will massively hurt trading of personal loot as we won't have half our gearslots covered by obnoxiously high-level items anymore. And I think in the end that's the biggest problem with forced personal loot: without legendaries, pretty much nothing will be tradeable for weeks or months anyway. Inevitably, I think once Blizzard sees how much of a mess forcing personal loot in non-LFR raids has become, they'll change it.

[xcitng]

So let me get this straight. If you had a player that was constantly parsing in the 99th percentile of his respective class, you'd still kick him if he was the "quiet type" or somewhat aloof? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

We had one like that in our mythic guild who was a hunter, he played really well but he was extremely toxic to everyone and abusive, doesn't matter what you parse if having that player means you lose 10 good players due to not being able to stand the fuck

Edit: Still having restrictions on what you can and cannot trade is pathetic and until they give a legitimate reason why they cannot leave ML in for guilds who choose to use it/mythic only, I'll never agree on PL.

[Tharkkun]

How is it even fun to play in a guild like this?

People like this thrive on the fact that they can control the destiny of 19 other players in a video game. It's a sickness actually.

[Jacob6875]

Personally for me every guild I was in always eventually had some sort of drama related to DKP or loot council etc. Sure some of you might be in mythical guilds where your loot system is set up perfectly and works for everything but I don't think most guilds are like that.

Some of the posts here forcing people to trade every item they can to an officer or checking armories for people getting sent loot in the mail just proves this point. Things like this lead to people getting angry and leaving the guild and/or causing it to break up.

My guild has been using PL for awhile except for bosses that dropped tier since you obviously can't trade it between classes. Sure some people get super lucky but they just end up trading stuff they don't need to others so it all balances out in the end.

[honore35]

RCLootCouncil still works as far as I have seen, so it will now put everything that is tradable up for auction. Have made measures to ensure fairness for the looter and trials.

1: Normally trials would be underprioritized for loot, but if the looter is a trial then he will be treated as if he was a full raider. That is, he would not be expected to give up the loot automatically.
2: If it is an equal or close to equal upgrade for looter and another raider, the looter will be favoured.

How this will work we will see next week.

EPGP worked fine for a decade. Realm 1st LK, top 200 for 10 years after. still going strong.

I've seen countless scumbags like your guild come and go, as we stayed top 1 or 3 server and top 200.

In my world well... we laugh at you.

[Kaver]

A Guild who potentially would abuse a loot system and shit on its members is a toxic guild. If you are in this type guild, please leave it and find a new one. There are plenty of great guilds out there so no need to waste your time in a bad one.

[Zyky]

Posts like this proves the best how needed and urgent this change was. Personalny cant wait for blizz making all loot untradable when toxic people will try to abuse others like this

The thing is, there was little toxicity in decent guilds, the bad guilds who had bad leadership and abused loot systems didn't last long enough for it to matter. This change was a terrible change overall because it just made loot more troublesome and more bothersome even on a personal level. Looking at Azerite pieces, telling people sorry that you need it because of a better trait is a terrible feeling, meanwhile you already have(lets say) the other Azerite raid piece. Without this garbage forced personal loot that other Azerite piece could have went to someone that would have used it, I would have never even opted for it knowing full well that there was a better Azerite item in the same raid.

[xcitng]

People like this thrive on the fact that they can control the destiny of 19 other players in a video game. It's a sickness actually.

You get sick at the thought of 20 players agreeing on loot rules so the progress faster which allows them to play the game less? Should sicken you that choices that have been in the game for 14 years have been taken away for no legitimate reason.

[kamuimac]

Why? DO you hate your own guild and have no mates who play with you, to the point that you'd PREFER to shard items instead of passing them to them for upgrades? Or having the small moment of politeness and civility in a random where you pass someone an item you don't need and words like "please" and "thanks" get used for once?

Most guilds aren't full of arseholes, and in particular SUCCESSFULL high end raiding guilds usually aren't.

OP is not talking about passing

OP is talking about absolute extortion of gear from their raiders.

never mistake those 2 .