Now that ML is gone, how are all you GM/RL's feeling?

[Alvito]

Getting people to stick out fights that will take a few dozen pulls to kill is going to start becoming a bigger issue for guilds. Before if you were just getting to a fight like mythic Aggramar and knew that all the guilds before you took 200 to 500 pulls to kill it and had something along those lines in store for your group, one thing that helped with that time sink was knowing you were still gaining DKP, attendance points or whatever your raid used to help with loot. Now being there for a kill is all that matters for getting loot and this will make some of the more challenging parts of raiding even worse.

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People like this thrive on the fact that they can control the destiny of 19 other players in a video game. It's a sickness actually.

So you think 19 people are so weak minded they let 1 person control them and what they do?

[kamuimac]

Our guild held a poll on surveymonkey for our whole guild (raiders) to take. It had 4 options:

All loot is at your discretion.
All loot will be master looted besides trinkets and rings.
All loot will be master looted besides trinkets, rings, and azerite armor.
All loot with be master looted.

Not sure what the result of the poll yet is, but it will be interesting. Even someone who is super greedy in our guild and always complains about loot said he voted for all items to be master looted.

Edit: 13 people voted full master loot, 2 people voted partial master loot, 7 people voted full personal. That shows you that not just officers want master looter.

if anything this shows you that :

a) you have clear core who benefits strongly from ML at the cost of others
b) you have at least 45% of your roster who prefers PL (others including 10% who sometimes benefit from being buddies with "core" )

concluding - very good that PL is on.

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Getting people to stick out fights that will take a few dozen pulls to kill is going to start becoming a bigger issue for guilds. Before if you were just getting to a fight like mythic Aggramar and knew that all the guilds before you took 200 to 500 pulls to kill it and had something along those lines in store for your group, one thing that helped with that time sink was knowing you were still gaining DKP, attendance points or whatever your raid used to help with loot. Now being there for a kill is all that matters for getting loot and this will make some of the more challenging parts of raiding even worse.

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So you think 19 people are so weak minded they let 1 person control them and what they do?

how do you think Hitler rose to the power ?

most of society are mindless sheeps perfeckly happy with others controlling their life.

[Leodric]

how do you think Hitler rose to the power ?
most of society are mindless sheeps perfeckly happy with others controlling their life.

19 people are perfectly ok with a system which benefits them all, thus having the decision to leave that system or play along and ONLY because you don't agree with it means they are weak minded individuals plus throwing some Hitler analogy in there as well. *claps* Bravo man, Bravo

[Karlz0rz]

if anything this shows you that :

a) you have clear core who benefits strongly from ML at the cost of others
b) you have at least 45% of your roster who prefers PL (others including 10% who sometimes benefit from being buddies with "core" )

concluding - very good that PL is on.

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how do you think Hitler rose to the power ?

most of society are mindless sheeps perfeckly happy with others controlling their life.

I don't care about the discussion at hand, I just want to point out that I've started noticing Godwin's Law more and more while browsing this forum. It's at the point where I'm quite amused by it :P.

[Scrysis]

On the short term? Personal loot will make the first two weeks easier for the Raid Leader. After that? Much, much harder and a bigger pain in the ass. Our group will practically throw loot at each other, so we're going to have a fine time trying to keep the raid moving while everyone tries to give everything imaginable away to everyone else in the raid. What took us 5 minutes, will probably take us more like 15 minutes.

You may not believe this, and it's your prerogative, but we MADE him go master looter from personal loot AND put him in charge as the sole person on the loot council. That's right, an entire guild just straight up told the guild leader that we trust him to divide everything appropriately and went on our merry way. To everyone in the guild, loot is a tool to getting to the next boss, and the real reward is taking bosses down among friends.

[Team]

ML in 2018 lol

[BossManRoth]

Been using personal loot since Tomb of Sargeras, and since we have all been playing together for 5+ years we aren't a group of loot assholes. What people don't want gets put up for roll, 1-100 for main spec, 1-1000 for offpsec. If you don't want to trade your pieces you don't have to.

[Tharkkun]

You get sick at the thought of 20 players agreeing on loot rules so the progress faster which allows them to play the game less? Should sicken you that choices that have been in the game for 14 years have been taken away for no legitimate reason.

Go back and read the thread and who we're talking about and his comment. Way over the top.

[kamuimac]

19 people are perfectly ok with a system which benefits them all, thus having the decision to leave that system or play along and ONLY because you don't agree with it means they are weak minded individuals plus throwing some Hitler analogy in there as well. *claps* Bravo man, Bravo

i like how you dont like the analogy but nowhere in your sentence you are disagreeing that its the analogy that fits perfeckly together with 2nd sentence of mindless sheeps who i'd like to add didint have much choice since just like in nazi germany people were mimicking others just because they were scared to o against main trend - same was so far in mythic raiding - a lot of guilds were mindlessly using ML just because better guilds used it .

it went to the point where guilds which took half of year to kill first 1-3 boses in mythic also were using ML because "its the only possible choice" even though they had 0 benefit from using it. but hey all big boys are using it so we gotta blindly copy that model.

[xcitng]

Go back and read the thread and who we're talking about and his comment. Way over the top.

I did, if his guild is a mythic raiding guild I see nothing wrong with it, its much better and efficient to use an addon that says what people need and let the loot council decide where the loot most benefits the raids progression or it will take forever to move loot around doing it the way he said though.

If its a heroic guild its a waste of time and over the top, PL is perfectly fine since that content is a cake walk.

[Sencha]

It saves time as you skip the loot attribution process. So it's better.

[Mgemnusratsl]

Well if ML was not abused, it would be good. But ML is necessary if you are playing for world first or realm first. In my guild when there was ml some people did not get hc tier because “oh this tier will be 2nd set for healer”, sorry next time, next boss “ oh this tier will be 4th set item for tank, sorry nex time” this goes like a month. 0 item reward from raid when you spend 4 hours per night / 3 nights at least weekly. I know there is no tier now. But tthere is still bis azerite gear. Bis stat gear. Bis trinket etc.
When “main raiders” gets their loot now you can get scrap(for them) item. Of course people will share items in guild if they can trade. I traded 5 mythic items so far in bfa in dungeons (3 of them total stranger pug). I could de and sell if i was a jerk.

For ML part again some dudes was saying ml is good to kill next boss. If the difference between kill and wiping for 300 tries. Then you shouldnot try it for that week and gear up m+ or similar loot options. Come back next week. Dont steal 20ppl time by pure pressure (maybe tranny rl gm)

[Leodric]

i like how you dont like the analogy but nowhere in your sentence you are disagreeing that its the analogy that fits perfeckly together with 2nd sentence of mindless sheeps who i'd like to add didint have much choice since just like in nazi germany people were mimicking others just because they were scared to o against main trend - same was so far in mythic raiding - a lot of guilds were mindlessly using ML just because better guilds used it .

it went to the point where guilds which took half of year to kill first 1-3 boses in mythic also were using ML because "its the only possible choice" even though they had 0 benefit from using it. but hey all big boys are using it so we gotta blindly copy that model.

It's pathetic that you try to compare the decision people had to take during the time of nazi-germany (fearing their life if they didn't comply) and people not joining a guild using god damn masterloot or personal loot. If you don't see the difference between these two things and why you can't compare them AT ALL and think people are "mindless sheeps" because of it than nobody can help you.

I am not even going to engage your stance on the usage of ML and why you obviously have no clue why it benefits most people. Just remember that only because you can't see the benefit in it (even though countless times people write here why it is good), doesn't mean that other people are "weak minded" individuals for using/liking a loot system you don't like. ML has countless benefits over PL. PL also has benefits over ML, takes some WoW experience past the "heroic raid progress" to see that though.

Also, obviously I am disagreeing with your poor analogy.

[kamuimac]

It's pathetic that you try to compare the decision people had to take during the time of nazi-germany (fearing their life if they didn't comply) and people not joining a guild using god damn masterloot or personal loot. If you don't see the difference between these two things and why you can't compare them AT ALL and think people are "mindless sheeps" because of it than nobody can help you.

I am not even going to engage your stance on the usage of ML and why you obviously have no clue why it benefits most people. Just remember that only because you can't see the benefit in it (even though countless times people write here why it is good), doesn't mean that other people are "weak minded" individuals for using/liking a loot system you don't like. ML has countless benefits over PL. PL also has benefits over ML, takes some WoW experience past the "heroic raid progress" to see that though.

Also, obviously I am disagreeing with your poor analogy.

and yet you provide no argument on sociological aspect of it to counter "my obviously wrong viewpoint" because you dont have such.

nobody is discussing facts that ML provides better resoults with sniper style of gearing up raiders. but those resouls come at cost of tens of thousands of people who had no other choice but to obide officers and guilds..

and that "cost" is reason why blizzard took action and hard stance.

[Primemrip]

This post came too soon. Wait until a few weeks have passed. Usually the first few weeks of a raid PL is the desired loot method anyway. Because it can provide with more loot then if you would have used ML. After a few weeks have passed this will usually change.

Is that why 0 good guilds used Personal Loot in the opening weeks of any raid during any prior expansion.

[Leodric]

and yet you provide no argument on sociological aspect of it to counter "my obviously wrong viewpoint" because you dont have such.

nobody is discussing facts that ML provides better resoults with sniper style of gearing up raiders. but those resouls come at cost of tens of thousands of people who had no other choice but to obide officers and guilds..

and that "cost" is reason why blizzard took action and hard stance.

Ok, I am going to make it very easy for you to understand it also on, as you called it, a 'sociological' point of view.
The decision a person has to make towards anything in life drastically changes if a) their life is endangered depending on what decision they take or b) they merely have to switch a guild in an MMORPG resulting on which decision they take. So this concludes that your analogy is very VERY poor and can't be used in that regard.

And again, people had a choice. It's simple, you don't like the loot system a guild has, you leave that guild to join a guild which uses the loot system you like. Can't find a guild who uses the loot system you have? Make your own guild. protip: that's what self-reliable people do when they encounter a problem, they try to fix it by themselves and not wait for someone else to solve their problems.

[Deleted]

i play in a guild where we value performance but also the well being of all members, loot is usually distributed somewhat equal based on attendance, i like the change since it now allows for multiple of the same class in a better way, but i also fear that i will be getting gear that could be useful to someone else but i cant trade it.

[Deleted]

and yet you provide no argument on sociological aspect of it to counter "my obviously wrong viewpoint" because you dont have such.

nobody is discussing facts that ML provides better resoults with sniper style of gearing up raiders. but those resouls come at cost of tens of thousands of people who had no other choice but to obide officers and guilds..

and that "cost" is reason why blizzard took action and hard stance.

Im just interested, when you ask about about sociological aspects of ML, do you realize our whole society is built upon the same concept of masterloot right?

[verganas]

I think that such complex loot redistribution would only be needed for hardcore progression guilds going for top 10-20. As others said i agree that some raid leaders like to control their raid teams too much... If you are in a good guild and as a GM/RL do your job and keep people happy, people will just offer what they don't need for roll and that's that.

[Aphrel]

This disturbingly common view that being at the mecry of RNG-distribution is somehow better than having a well thoughtout and matematicly calculated way of destributing loot in a guild tells me alot of what kind of people play wow.

Ppl who cares only about themselves and not one bit about their team (guild) and ppl who has a great distrust in organized systems and prefer a "everyone for himself" approach.

I will go out on a limb and assume that most ppl who didnt like the master loot and applause this change also has never played in an organized sports team. Because nowhere better than in a sport do you realize that you need to prioritize what is best for the team and not let everyone go and do wtf they please on the field. You need assignments, positions and a plan. Everyone cant take the damn penalty or corner kick.